THE WENGER THREAD

[SteveO 35]

17 years group stage qualification

115% for

[clockender1]

I think that we got proper spoiled ten years ago and some of our supporters now think that is a continually achievable target. That just isn't realistic.

whilst i agree with you that we were spoiled 1998-2004, MY expectations are based on the highest ticket prices in world football, demolishing Highbury and the 8 million quid a year our esteemed manager awarded himself.

for all that, i expect top two, and last eight of the ECL, every single damn f@cking year.

anything less is failure.

if we were still at THOF and i was paying 25 quid a ticket, i'd be happy with mid table and a decent cup run but thats not what wonga and Fizsman sold us is it ?

[Jonny_Gooner]

http://www.gunnerstown.com/arsenal/2014 ... ment-45440

Sentiment like this from certain fans is why Wenger will never be under pressure...

[falkirk goon]

http://www.gunnerstown.com/arsenal/2014 ... ment-45440

Sentiment like this from certain fans is why Wenger will never be under pressure...

Spot on mate and sadly the balloon of an author isn't alone.

[SPUDMASHER]

I'm not going to defend Wenger but I am willing to criticise some of our fan base for their expectations. Some of what I read on here is just unreasonable at times.

In what aspects spuddy ? He is being (in my opinion at least) correctly slaughtered for his lack of tactical nous, for the blatant disregard in the way he prepares for opposition teams, for the ridiculous contracts handed out to average players, for his inability to motivate his players, for his absolute refusal to spend the resources he has available, for his woeful inability to recognise and change our shortcomings, for the disgraceful contempt/disregard he has shown to the fans and finally for watering down the ambitions of our club to the point that a virtual trophy is the be all and end all these days

Not sure where our expectations are unreasonable tbh spuddy

I think that we got proper spoiled ten years ago and some of our supporters now think that is a continually achievable target. That just isn't realistic.

I agree with you to a point but saying that we have unreasonable expectations is a sweeping statement that really doesn't stand up when you break it down to all the factors I listed above. Most of us know that we will never see another team like the 2002-2004 side, but surely it isn't unreasonable to expect everyone to do their utmost to push the club forward ? That cock is holding us back and wont step aside

I agree that he is holding us back but I don't think anyone else coming in would be given anything more than he is.
I agree about the tactics, or apparent lack thereof, and there is no excuse for that. If you consider that the board appear to have absolute faith in him, and they don't give him regular funds, imagine how little they would give to a new unproven manager.
There are some things where he cannot be excused. No doubt about it. I also think there are plenty of other things where supporters make judgements without any actual knowledge of the real facts and slate him regardless.
Think about how you would feel if after reading a fact based exposé of the real goings on in our club was published in a few years time and the content exonerated him of blame for all the background decisions he is perceived to have made but didn't. Would you look back and say 'maybe I was a bit hard on him for constantly criticising him without knowing the truth/reasons behind what went on'?

[augie]

I'm not going to defend Wenger but I am willing to criticise some of our fan base for their expectations. Some of what I read on here is just unreasonable at times.

In what aspects spuddy ? He is being (in my opinion at least) correctly slaughtered for his lack of tactical nous, for the blatant disregard in the way he prepares for opposition teams, for the ridiculous contracts handed out to average players, for his inability to motivate his players, for his absolute refusal to spend the resources he has available, for his woeful inability to recognise and change our shortcomings, for the disgraceful contempt/disregard he has shown to the fans and finally for watering down the ambitions of our club to the point that a virtual trophy is the be all and end all these days

Not sure where our expectations are unreasonable tbh spuddy

I think that we got proper spoiled ten years ago and some of our supporters now think that is a continually achievable target. That just isn't realistic.

I agree with you to a point but saying that we have unreasonable expectations is a sweeping statement that really doesn't stand up when you break it down to all the factors I listed above. Most of us know that we will never see another team like the 2002-2004 side, but surely it isn't unreasonable to expect everyone to do their utmost to push the club forward ? That cock is holding us back and wont step aside

I agree that he is holding us back but I don't think anyone else coming in would be given anything more than he is.
I agree about the tactics, or apparent lack thereof, and there is no excuse for that. If you consider that the board appear to have absolute faith in him, and they don't give him regular funds, imagine how little they would give to a new unproven manager.
There are some things where he cannot be excused. No doubt about it. I also think there are plenty of other things where supporters make judgements without any actual knowledge of the real facts and slate him regardless.
Think about how you would feel if after reading a fact based exposé of the real goings on in our club was published in a few years time and the content exonerated him of blame for all the background decisions he is perceived to have made but didn't. Would you look back and say 'maybe I was a bit hard on him for constantly criticising him without knowing the truth/reasons behind what went on'?

No

[Jonny_Gooner]

http://www.gunnerstown.com/arsenal/2014 ... ment-45440

Sentiment like this from certain fans is why Wenger will never be under pressure...

Spot on mate and sadly the balloon of an author isn't alone.

Too true, it's worrying really just how blind some people are to Wenger's shortcomings and just excuse every one of his negatives. And it's those negatives that are holding us back!

[TeeCee]

Look, can't we just get Wonga on a plane to Malaysia to scout for players and make sure he flies over the Ukraine?? Put us out of his misery??

[SPUDMASHER]

Look, can't we just get Wonga on a plane to Malaysia to scout for players and make sure he flies over the Ukraine?? Put us out of his misery??

And that is exactly the type of comment I don't understand!

Why don't you book the seat next to him!

[BFG4]

Look, can't we just get Wonga on a plane to Malaysia to scout for players and make sure he flies over the Ukraine?? Put us out of his misery??

Il pay for his ticket

[remigardeshair]

I'm not going to defend Wenger but I am willing to criticise some of our fan base for their expectations. Some of what I read on here is just unreasonable at times.

In what aspects spuddy ? He is being (in my opinion at least) correctly slaughtered for his lack of tactical nous, for the blatant disregard in the way he prepares for opposition teams, for the ridiculous contracts handed out to average players, for his inability to motivate his players, for his absolute refusal to spend the resources he has available, for his woeful inability to recognise and change our shortcomings, for the disgraceful contempt/disregard he has shown to the fans and finally for watering down the ambitions of our club to the point that a virtual trophy is the be all and end all these days

Not sure where our expectations are unreasonable tbh spuddy

I think that we got proper spoiled ten years ago and some of our supporters now think that is a continually achievable target. That just isn't realistic.

It's an interesting point. I remember saying at the time that the 98, 02 and 04 teams were punching above their weight, not in terms of how good they were, but in terms of Arsenal as a club. For that period we were blessed with incredible quality, and I think you are right, it raised expectations that have since become unrealistic, and it reflects itself in the criticism of the manager.

That said, a lot of the criticism towards him his justified. I dont consider myself to be an 'AKB' or 'AOB' and in fact I detest the terms, they are lazy labels that get applied to people based on their view of a particular issue.

However

The ineptness of the tactics for a number of seasons is frustrating to say the least, the arrogance of not having a plan or approach dependent on the opposition is shocking really. The 02 and 04 teams in particular were good enough, certainly in English football, to send out and be told to just play how they knew best, footballs moved on since then but Arsene hasn't.

The inability to address issues in the squad which are obvious for everyone to see is appalling management. The almost myopic approach to the squad is shocking, and its rinse and repeat every transfer window, here we are again with the shackals of the stadium debt apparently no longer upon on, and with three days of the window left, still need to address the entire spine of the team - It's simply not good enough.

To your original point though, the expectations of our fans now do lend themselves to seeing and hearing some of the ridiculous things that now get said (Debuchy is a **** for getting sent off, lets hope the manager dies in a plance crash)
and it doesnt make pleasant reading really.

[Ed Hunter The Gooner]

Look, can't we just get Wonga on a plane to Malaysia to scout for players and make sure he flies over the Ukraine?? Put us out of his misery??

While I'm frustrated myself as fuck about the situation with Arsenal, don't you agree that your statement is a bit harsh? I mean, In Ukraine there are people dying every day so can we just left that outside from issues regarding football?

[arseofacrow]

I'm not going to defend Wenger but I am willing to criticise some of our fan base for their expectations. Some of what I read on here is just unreasonable at times.

In what aspects spuddy ? He is being (in my opinion at least) correctly slaughtered for his lack of tactical nous, for the blatant disregard in the way he prepares for opposition teams, for the ridiculous contracts handed out to average players, for his inability to motivate his players, for his absolute refusal to spend the resources he has available, for his woeful inability to recognise and change our shortcomings, for the disgraceful contempt/disregard he has shown to the fans and finally for watering down the ambitions of our club to the point that a virtual trophy is the be all and end all these days

Not sure where our expectations are unreasonable tbh spuddy

I think that we got proper spoiled ten years ago and some of our supporters now think that is a continually achievable target. That just isn't realistic.

It's an interesting point. I remember saying at the time that the 98, 02 and 04 teams were punching above their weight, not in terms of how good they were, but in terms of Arsenal as a club. For that period we were blessed with incredible quality, and I think you are right, it raised expectations that have since become unrealistic, and it reflects itself in the criticism of the manager.

That said, a lot of the criticism towards him his justified. I dont consider myself to be an 'AKB' or 'AOB' and in fact I detest the terms, they are lazy labels that get applied to people based on their view of a particular issue.

However

The ineptness of the tactics for a number of seasons is frustrating to say the least, the arrogance of not having a plan or approach dependent on the opposition is shocking really. The 02 and 04 teams in particular were good enough, certainly in English football, to send out and be told to just play how they knew best, footballs moved on since then but Arsene hasn't.

The inability to address issues in the squad which are obvious for everyone to see is appalling management. The almost myopic approach to the squad is shocking, and its rinse and repeat every transfer window, here we are again with the shackals of the stadium debt apparently no longer upon on, and with three days of the window left, still need to address the entire spine of the team - It's simply not good enough.

To your original point though, the expectations of our fans now do lend themselves to seeing and hearing some of the ridiculous things that now get said (Debuchy is a **** for getting sent off, lets hope the manager dies in a plance crash)
and it doesnt make pleasant reading really.

Agree almost completely with this view of things.

Arsene has essentially forgotten that, leaving aside financial issues, the basic recipe for winning the league in England hasn't changed much. Strong, powerful, athletic.

He hasn't reacted well to the new challenges he has faced.

And for a team that's been in the CL for 17 years, the record doesn't make good reading. And Arsene doesn't seem to learn anything year-on-year.

[markmark64]

I'm not going to defend Wenger but I am willing to criticise some of our fan base for their expectations. Some of what I read on here is just unreasonable at times.

In what aspects spuddy ? He is being (in my opinion at least) correctly slaughtered for his lack of tactical nous, for the blatant disregard in the way he prepares for opposition teams, for the ridiculous contracts handed out to average players, for his inability to motivate his players, for his absolute refusal to spend the resources he has available, for his woeful inability to recognise and change our shortcomings, for the disgraceful contempt/disregard he has shown to the fans and finally for watering down the ambitions of our club to the point that a virtual trophy is the be all and end all these days

Not sure where our expectations are unreasonable tbh spuddy

I think that we got proper spoiled ten years ago and some of our supporters now think that is a continually achievable target. That just isn't realistic.

It's an interesting point. I remember saying at the time that the 98, 02 and 04 teams were punching above their weight, not in terms of how good they were, but in terms of Arsenal as a club. For that period we were blessed with incredible quality, and I think you are right, it raised expectations that have since become unrealistic, and it reflects itself in the criticism of the manager.

That said, a lot of the criticism towards him his justified. I dont consider myself to be an 'AKB' or 'AOB' and in fact I detest the terms, they are lazy labels that get applied to people based on their view of a particular issue.

However

The ineptness of the tactics for a number of seasons is frustrating to say the least, the arrogance of not having a plan or approach dependent on the opposition is shocking really. The 02 and 04 teams in particular were good enough, certainly in English football, to send out and be told to just play how they knew best, footballs moved on since then but Arsene hasn't.

The inability to address issues in the squad which are obvious for everyone to see is appalling management. The almost myopic approach to the squad is shocking, and its rinse and repeat every transfer window, here we are again with the shackals of the stadium debt apparently no longer upon on, and with three days of the window left, still need to address the entire spine of the team - It's simply not good enough.

To your original point though, the expectations of our fans now do lend themselves to seeing and hearing some of the ridiculous things that now get said (Debuchy is a **** for getting sent off, lets hope the manager dies in a plance crash)
and it doesnt make pleasant reading really.

well put,agree with everything posted.AW has become a victim of his own success he cant perform the tricks he used to and i also think he got completely mugged off by Ferguson for the last 8+years ending in the van persie signing.All this aside Arsene Wenger doesnt deserve the coating he gets here,even if he is passed his sell by date.

[markmark64]

I'm not going to defend Wenger but I am willing to criticise some of our fan base for their expectations. Some of what I read on here is just unreasonable at times.

In what aspects spuddy ? He is being (in my opinion at least) correctly slaughtered for his lack of tactical nous, for the blatant disregard in the way he prepares for opposition teams, for the ridiculous contracts handed out to average players, for his inability to motivate his players, for his absolute refusal to spend the resources he has available, for his woeful inability to recognise and change our shortcomings, for the disgraceful contempt/disregard he has shown to the fans and finally for watering down the ambitions of our club to the point that a virtual trophy is the be all and end all these days

Not sure where our expectations are unreasonable tbh spuddy

I think that we got proper spoiled ten years ago and some of our supporters now think that is a continually achievable target. That just isn't realistic.

It's an interesting point. I remember saying at the time that the 98, 02 and 04 teams were punching above their weight, not in terms of how good they were, but in terms of Arsenal as a club. For that period we were blessed with incredible quality, and I think you are right, it raised expectations that have since become unrealistic, and it reflects itself in the criticism of the manager.

That said, a lot of the criticism towards him his justified. I dont consider myself to be an 'AKB' or 'AOB' and in fact I detest the terms, they are lazy labels that get applied to people based on their view of a particular issue.

However

The ineptness of the tactics for a number of seasons is frustrating to say the least, the arrogance of not having a plan or approach dependent on the opposition is shocking really. The 02 and 04 teams in particular were good enough, certainly in English football, to send out and be told to just play how they knew best, footballs moved on since then but Arsene hasn't.

The inability to address issues in the squad which are obvious for everyone to see is appalling management. The almost myopic approach to the squad is shocking, and its rinse and repeat every transfer window, here we are again with the shackals of the stadium debt apparently no longer upon on, and with three days of the window left, still need to address the entire spine of the team - It's simply not good enough.

To your original point though, the expectations of our fans now do lend themselves to seeing and hearing some of the ridiculous things that now get said (Debuchy is a **** for getting sent off, lets hope the manager dies in a plance crash)
and it doesnt make pleasant reading really.

Agree almost completely with this view of things.

Arsene has essentially forgotten that, leaving aside financial issues, the basic recipe for winning the league in England hasn't changed much. Strong, powerful, athletic.

He hasn't reacted well to the new challenges he has faced.

And for a team that's been in the CL for 17 years, the record doesn't make good reading. And Arsene doesn't seem to learn anything year-on-year.

I think he does learn and that is how to just get by,doing enough to please the akbs and the owner.Like he said today the reference to a hand of poker he plays just enough to keep him in the game.