The Mesut Özil Thread

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DB10GOONER
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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by DB10GOONER »

arseofacrow wrote:Ozil is the player to dictate the game, that's the only way it going to work. He can't play on the wing as it leaves us too exposed. And it doesn't provide width as the quality of most things provided the default wingers (monreal and gibbs) is quite shit.

Last night he moved inside and provided some real quality and, this is what Wenger would argue is the point: that he drifts inside anyway. But you can do that last night and it pays off but it doesn't make sense in other games against better teams. Even last night we struggled.

Finally, despite his work in the gym, he just doesn't seem suited to a lot of what English football contains. He's a bit slow to react when his touch is bad, he can be hounded pretty effectively.

And however some clever :censored: defends his body language - there is a reason there's a term body language. If Sanchez's body language is so positive, can it not be argued that someone who exudes the exact opposite, has a negative effect? English football is very different from Spanish football, where discussions like this are mainly redundant. But we talking about England, and you have to consider it.

Any way you look at it, we'd have to really focus the team around his football. Otherwise, we're leaving ourselves very exposed.
I agree with a lot of that tbh. I've oft defended Ozil on here against the dumber elements that moan because he doesn't race around like an idiot busting tackles into every fucker in sight. My point has always been that he is not that kind of player. Never has been, never will be. What he offers is that next level of vision and technique that can open up an oppo defence.

My opinion is you build the attacking part of your team around that ability. You set up the system to work with him, you then add in the runners and workers etc. If you don't build the system around a player of his class and ability then he is wasted with us and we'll never see the best of him.

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Yankee_Gooner_Dandee
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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by Yankee_Gooner_Dandee »

DB10GOONER wrote:
arseofacrow wrote:Ozil is the player to dictate the game, that's the only way it going to work. He can't play on the wing as it leaves us too exposed. And it doesn't provide width as the quality of most things provided the default wingers (monreal and gibbs) is quite shit.

Last night he moved inside and provided some real quality and, this is what Wenger would argue is the point: that he drifts inside anyway. But you can do that last night and it pays off but it doesn't make sense in other games against better teams. Even last night we struggled.

Finally, despite his work in the gym, he just doesn't seem suited to a lot of what English football contains. He's a bit slow to react when his touch is bad, he can be hounded pretty effectively.

And however some clever :censored: defends his body language - there is a reason there's a term body language. If Sanchez's body language is so positive, can it not be argued that someone who exudes the exact opposite, has a negative effect? English football is very different from Spanish football, where discussions like this are mainly redundant. But we talking about England, and you have to consider it.

Any way you look at it, we'd have to really focus the team around his football. Otherwise, we're leaving ourselves very exposed.
I agree with a lot of that tbh. I've oft defended Ozil on here against the dumber elements that moan because he doesn't race around like an idiot busting tackles into every fucker in sight. My point has always been that he is not that kind of player. Never has been, never will be. What he offers is that next level of vision and technique that can open up an oppo defence.

My opinion is you build the attacking part of your team around that ability. You set up the system to work with him, you then add in the runners and workers etc. If you don't build the system around a player of his class and ability then he is wasted with us and we'll never see the best of him.
Yeah but you know Wenger will never set up a team to play around Ozil. For the dictator, its his way or no way.

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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by clockender1 »

DB10GOONER wrote: If you don't build the system around a player of his class and ability then he is wasted with us and we'll never see the best of him.
we will also never see the best of him when the ball is played sideways to him and he's standing still - he likes the ball quickly to feet or in front of him so he can run at defenders or pass and go - caz is the same.

this is why with flam and jack/ramsey in midfield they look so folorn and pedestrian.

ozil is not lazy - playmakers are not expected to track back, only to find space and use it well.

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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by officepest »

:suicide:

It's a good job we never signed Riquelme in his pomp; he would have been slaughtered by some for being 'lazy' or ‘disinterested’. I honestly cannot abide this obsession with 'passion', as if it in anyway trumps actual ability.

That our manager spends £42m quid on a player and hasn't the first clue how to utilize him is a damning indictment on Wenger, not Özil.

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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by Yankee_Gooner_Dandee »

"passion" and all other synonyms that go with that are good and all, i like seeing it out of our players. but honestly you need that passion out of your defenders and central midfielders, but your flair players/creative players its all about skill. they need those other players to do the dirty work around them so that they can create offensively. sure players like alexis can work hard and track back after losing the ball, which is great, but it shouldnt be necessary if the rest of the team is set up correctly and you have talented defenders who arent tactically clueless.

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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by clockender1 »

Yankee_Gooner_Dandee wrote:"passion" and all other synonyms that go with that are good and all, i like seeing it out of our players. but honestly you need that passion out of your defenders and central midfielders, but your flair players/creative players its all about skill. they need those other players to do the dirty work around them so that they can create offensively. sure players like alexis can work hard and track back after losing the ball, which is great, but it shouldnt be necessary if the rest of the team is set up correctly and you have talented defenders who arent tactically clueless.
correctamundo - as has been said by many smart managers - "you have to fight to earn the right to play your football".

George Knew. Allydarce knows, Mourinho knows, so does Rodgers, Koeman, Simeone and Hitzfeld - you build your team from the back.

whereas wonga's philosophy is "football is about scoring goals".

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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by SydneyGooner »

Never was and never will be as good as Fabregas.

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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by OneBardGooner »

Ozil will score against Boro this Sunday 3 in 3 :barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf:

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DB10GOONER
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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by DB10GOONER »

Yankee_Gooner_Dandee wrote:"passion" and all other synonyms that go with that are good and all, i like seeing it out of our players. but honestly you need that passion out of your defenders and central midfielders, but your flair players/creative players its all about skill. they need those other players to do the dirty work around them so that they can create offensively. sure players like alexis can work hard and track back after losing the ball, which is great, but it shouldnt be necessary if the rest of the team is set up correctly and you have talented defenders who arent tactically clueless.
Excellently put. 8)

I too love to see scrappers and fighters out there battling away and giving everything. But I don't want a whole team of them. That's Stoke. Fuck all skill, flair or vision, but loads of thick cúnts slamming in.

Nope, you need a mix of scrappers/workers and visionary/flair players. 8)

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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by supergooner »

we will see on sunday and then we can all re visit this thread. :box:

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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by arseofacrow »

He just needs to react a bit better to losing the ball and getting hustled too easily. That and adjust himslef according to the game.

Then it'll all be hunky dory

:D

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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by GoonerMuzz »

Ozil definitely needs to be played centrally in a free roll, but the other problem he faces is the fact that we have no old school wingers, i'd love to see him play central directly behind Giroud or Welbeck ( or even a proper CF).

With a proper midfield 4 just behind him, containing a proper LW and RW who know when to get forward but also know how to get back and defend and also who pay attention to what's happening on the other side of the park would give him the time and space to play how he's shown he can in flashes for us.

That in my-30 years of not being involved in football at the highest level is how you would get the best out of Ozil, but obviously AW knows best how to rebuild players who have played a certain role since they were kids and he is always right :banghead:

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northbank123
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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by northbank123 »

There's no point and we can't afford to carry him as anything other than a no 10.

Either build the team around him and see how that works out or sell him. No Middle ground.

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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by SteveO 35 »

We don't play with a formation that allows for players like Ozil to be played wide in the midfield, just like we didn't with Arshavin. Our full backs continually get caught high up the field, have done for years, and when we get absolutely battered like we did at the Bridge, Anfield, Goodison, OT etc as we have in recent times, rarely do the attacks come through the midfield.....its nearly always down the flanks (and more often than not our left).

The ease with which Chelsea cut through that left side last season at the Bridge was embarrassing and United have done it to us for years with the Ladyboy, through to Valencia. Time and time again it happens and There's Only One stands there puzzled as one of our 'attacking flair players' loses the ball and stands there while two players gallop past Gibbs or Nacho (Clichy before them) and create chance after chance

Look at the players he's tried there that have supposedly had a bad time of it here - Arshavin, Ozil, Podolski - not a defensive bone in their body but the man who has worked in football for 30 years persisted with playing them in a system that demanded defensive work to cover our all our attacking full backs

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Re: The Mesut Özil Thread

Post by armchair »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Look at the players he's tried there that have supposedly had a bad time of it here - Arshavin, Ozil, Podolski - not a defensive bone in their body but the man who has worked in football for 30 years persisted with playing them in a system that demanded defensive work to cover our all our attacking full backs
Dont forget Mr Wonderful himself, Nicky Bentner was ruined by Wenger too by continually playing him left wing. :D

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