THE WENGER THREAD

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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turricaned
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by turricaned »

armchair wrote:Wonder whose fault the 8-2 was? Or the 4-4? Or the embarrassing capitulations against so called lesser teams before Bouldy which cost us and turned many fans against himlong before this season.
...
Cant have been Wenger obviously. :lol:
I don't know who you're addressing there, because either it's a figment of your imagination, somebody else - or you've completely misread what I was getting at. In fact since I started I've barely said anything about AW in regards to the issues we've had - mostly all I've said is that we've had them, and the reasons behind them might be more complex than just one person.

We're far from the only club in the regular top half of the PL to have had the odd embarrassing defeat in recent seasons - e.g City stuffing United 6-1, us spanking Spurs 5-0, us spanking Spurs 5-2 after going 2-0 down - plus if you go back to 1999 there was Chelsea (pre-Abramovich) humiliating United 5-0 after the latter had just done the treble. Setting that aside, I didn't say that Wenger was blameless for any of it. I raised the *possibility* - not certainty - that bringing Bould in as assistant manager in the last season or so was a move to have someone with defensive clout alongside AW - which if true would indicate that AW is not the dictatorial egotist that some paint him as.
Gunner Rob wrote:We finished 4th place last season and we will finish 4th this season, but we also led the league for 4 months this season. So if we finish in 4th place then how can that be called progress? I call it regression.
Did we lead the league for 4 months in the last 10 years? I'm not counting my chickens yet, but if we get the FA Cup, that's silverware too - which we also haven't had in that period of time. How is that a regression? I simply don't think we were going to be strong enough to get the PL title this season (and said so in December), but as in December I thought that this season would be a proving ground for a shot at the title in the coming season.
Wenger is now 64, he will not change and has already admitted that we won't buy much this summer.
Change how? He gets stick for being weak defensively, we now have Bouldy (who knows a thing or two about defence) as assistant manager. He gets stick for not playing defensively and using counters, yet he does just that against the Spuds and Liverpool (in the FA Cup) this season. Ten years without silverware? Barring disaster, we're one match away from breaking that - and it's not an excuse, but an *indisputable fact* that from around 2002 up until the most recent transfer period, our transfer spending policy was dictated by the board, not AW. The whole "dossier" thing is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned - Jose is supposedly the king of tactical analysis, and all that effort has him a whopping *three points* above us in the PL at the time of writing. The striker question is a bit of a sore point, but I still maintain that it will probably be better in the long run to buy someone decent who will stick around in time for next season than it would have been to waste money on a short-term fix for this season (someone mentioned Berbatov, who has scored all of 9 league goals for Monaco this season and managed a stonking 5 league goals for Fulham last year). On that point, I doubt AW's off to Brazil just to work on his tan. ;)

I thank you for the welcoming words (I've got to say, even if I'm saying unpopular things for some - I've been pretty shocked by the bile and negativity from some quarters) - and as for what's giving me confidence? Well, during our 10 years of tribulation, some of the worst knocks we've taken have been from key players upping sticks and leaving - including Henry, Fabregas and RVP. While Cesc going home was a given, those departures coming when they did had a destabilising effect on the following seasons for us. Since RVP walked two years ago, we haven't had anyone of that calibre leaving (at least no-one whose role can't be covered reasonably well). Walcott could have gone - he's staying. Ramsey and Wilshere are committed to stay - in fact the only thing, in his own words, that could induce Wilshere to leave would be if Wenger went. Poldi seems to be staying in spite of the fact that he's angling for more CF play and isn't likely to get it. After a shaky start and injury, Özil has found his groove - and the interplay between him, Ramsey and the strikers in the last few matches has been frequently sublime - and a tantalising look at what might be to come.

Topping the league for four months is something we haven't managed in recent times, and while we missed out on the title this season - disappointing but unsurprising - the title will still be there for the taking next year. And to recap - Man U have bigger issues than Moyes, and I don't think next year will be a triumphant return to dominance for them. Liverpool will be playing CL next year, and that's going to put significant extra workload on their squad. City are currently in hot water with UEFA, so it'll be interesting to see if anything comes of that (one area in which I totally agree with AW is that clubs found guilty of breaching fair-play rules should be penalised) and Chelsea are on the cusp of a significant "ageing player" problem.

So that's why I'm hopeful for next year.
QuartzGooner wrote:5.) As for dossiers, my criticisms are relevant because players leave Arsenal feeling they have not been prepared by Wenger.
Who? How many? Can you provide a link or links?

[EDIT : If you're talking about Cesc : http://www.givemesport.com/445336-cesc- ... er-tribute
...the Barcelona ace was quoted by the Daily Mail.

"I just want to say congratulations. You made such a big impact on so many players' careers, especially on mine. I owe you everything."

Fabregas has made no secret of the fact that he still follows Arsenal's results closely since returning to Barcelona, and will remain a fan of his old club for the rest of his life.
(Shame that came before Stamford Bridge, but you can't have everything... ;) )

]

defleppardisking
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by defleppardisking »

I have long given up on Wenger. He will never change. Get ready for more laughter in the upcoming transfer window, next season and more seasons to go

Offside
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by Offside »

Have you read this little nugget?
"We have been 128 days top of the league, so we won the stamina league, but we failed in some big games away from home.


"The stamina league"? :shock: He's now started inventing his own competitions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... eague.html

turricaned
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by turricaned »

You try making a metaphor in French and see how well it translates... ;)

clockender1
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by clockender1 »

turricaned wrote:You try making a metaphor in French and see how well it translates... ;)
after living in France for 18 years and having been fluent before i got there, i think it would be pretty easy.

turricaned
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by turricaned »

In my experience, even the most fluent non-native speakers of a language tend to mangle metaphors - after any length of time. The only exceptions I know of are those who were multilingual from early childhood. :)

armchair
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by armchair »

turricaned wrote:You try making a metaphor in French and see how well it translates... ;)
This is fucking great! :barscarf:
Another one to add to the Wenger supporters big book of excuses..

The old mixed metaphor/lost in translation defence. :D Classic. Why didnt I think of that one?
Kep em coming turricaned Image :barscarf:

turricaned
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by turricaned »

Why does everything have to be "an excuse"? Why can't it just be "an observation", or - heaven forbid - "a joke"?!

(The smilies are generally a clue!)

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QuartzGooner
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by QuartzGooner »

Turricaned

Links?

Did you read Van Persie's leaving statement?

Why do you think Nasri, Van Persie, Cesc (leaving inevitable, but might have stayed another couple of seasons), and so on left?

Cash was part of it but -

They knew they were not winning at Arsenal.
They knew the squad was not improving.
They knew they had plateaued as players.

All down to Wenger and Kroenke.

I sat one seat away from Cesc for a game in his last season, just before he left.
Professional and discreet, he said nothing.
But the look on his face as he watched our sub-par team.........

Our boss has won nothing in years, and one FA Cup will not satisfy me.
The League and the Champions League are what counts, and under Weger I cannot see us ever winning either again.

As for Mourinho he has never lost to Wenger.

Good luck with making your points on here, I am not interested in a perpetual debate, too busy.

But if you want me to wish Wenger carries on as our boss, you are wasting your time.

armchair
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by armchair »

turricaned wrote:Why does everything have to be "an excuse"? Why can't it just be "an observation", or - heaven forbid - "a joke"?!

(The smilies are generally a clue!)
On this occasion unless I am wrong you were defending Wenger (again) by suggesting that what he meant was something other than what he actually said. Pretty insightful "observation" if you ask me. 8)

armchair
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by armchair »

turricaned wrote:
armchair wrote:Wonder whose fault the 8-2 was? Or the 4-4? Or the embarrassing capitulations against so called lesser teams before Bouldy which cost us and turned many fans against himlong before this season.
...
Cant have been Wenger obviously. :lol:
I don't know who you're addressing there, because either it's a figment of your imagination, somebody else - or you've completely misread what I was getting at. In fact since I started I've barely said anything about AW in regards to the issues we've had - mostly all I've said is that we've had them, and the reasons behind them might be more complex than just one person.
Thats right. Whatever you do, dont mention Wenger regarding "the issues we've had". Cause he is definitely nothing to do with it. :D
But glad to see you recognise we have issues. Thats progress. :barscarf: You'll be joining the WOB before you know it. :lol:

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SteveO 35
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by SteveO 35 »

clockender1 wrote:
turricaned wrote:You try making a metaphor in French and see how well it translates... ;)
after living in France for 18 years and having been fluent before i got there, i think it would be pretty easy.

Un Arsène Wenger, il ya un seul Arsène Wenger

:barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf:

defleppardisking
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by defleppardisking »

va te faire foutre Wenger!!!

turricaned
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by turricaned »

QuartzGooner wrote:Why do you think Nasri, Van Persie, Cesc (leaving inevitable, but might have stayed another couple of seasons), and so on left?
The last of those to leave was two years ago though - and no-one significant has even hinted at leaving since.
All down to Wenger and Kroenke.
Well, until last year the cash situation was all down to Kroenke and the board. At the risk of repeating myself, Cesc said it was having more experienced *players* around him that was helping him tactically at Barca. It was AFC's board, not just Wenger, that agreed to a "buy low, sell high" transfer strategy while the stadium finances stabilised.

This is old news.
I sat one seat away from Cesc for a game in his last season, just before he left.
But the look on his face as he watched our sub-par team.........
Your interpretation, and it probably had something to do with it - but he also was under immense pressure from his former Barca colleagues and national squad team-mates to come home after the World Cup. A lot to put on a young man's shoulders.
Our boss has won nothing in years, and one FA Cup will not satisfy me.
The League and the Champions League are what counts, and under Weger I cannot see us ever winning either again.
The Cup would be a step in the right direction though, surely? And on the second point, I respectfully disagree.
As for Mourinho he has never lost to Wenger.
Yeah, but he hasn't won consistently - we might have beaten them at home in December if the weather wasn't so rotten that everyone looked like they just wanted to go home. The thing with Mourinho is that his arrogance, combined with a tendency to play stultifylingly dull and negative football led to supporters of pretty much every other team in the PL and CL jumping for joy when Atlético tore him a new one.
Good luck with making your points on here, I am not interested in a perpetual debate, too busy.
I'm busy too, but keep weird hours as I work for a US firm - I spend a fair amount of time waiting for responses is all. :)
armchair wrote:Thats right. Whatever you do, dont mention Wenger regarding "the issues we've had". Cause he is definitely nothing to do with it.
Not what I said - what I said was that I wasn't talking about AW in either a positive or negative sense - I was just trying to discuss the issues. The fact that the divide is so bitter on here - particularly on the anti-side, makes me a bit depressed about being an Arsenal supporter quite frankly.

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SteveO 35
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Re: WENGER - Views For and Against.

Post by SteveO 35 »

Can I just say its a pleasure having turricaned on board

Still missing Baba and Red :cry:

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