THE WENGER THREAD

[SteveO 35]

Its after performances like tonight's when I really want to know how Wenger's supporters really convince themselves that he is the guy for the job and why a fear of the unknown grips them when it comes to trusting a new manager. What's better - to continue sleepwalking through the same nightmare (honestly that could have been Hull City 2008 out there tonight) and listen to the same soundbites and witness the same team deficiencies every season - OR, to try something different which may do better but also carries a risk of doing worse.

I just fail to see how anyone can enjoy season after season seeing substandard never-will-be goalkeepers making elementary errors, watching witless performances with a stinking attitude away at relegation threatened clubs (have we learned a single lesson from QPR away last season for example), and marvel at us sideways passing around a single paceless striker against a team that has shipped goals for fun (again 0-0 at home to Blackburn and Steve Bruce's Sunderland the season before last - identical systems, identical performances, just the personnel and the year on the calendar that has changed)

[armchair]

I've mentioned it before and on another thread. The AKB like to take each game in isolation.......

With an abject performance like today at Nowrich they'll analyze it to death.
It'll be one bad mistake by Mannone that cost us. Or maybe it was the international break. Or we didn't play with enough tempo. We were a little jaded. We were unlucky. Ramsey was poor today. If that shot had of gon in etc, etc.....

If we get a good win against decent opposition or put a run together they wont analyze it to death.
All is rosy in the Wenger garden, the good times are back and you're not a real fan for doubting 'leProf'. Lets all get behind the team or feck off down the lane.

They seem to forget its like groundhog day for some of us and theres apattern thats has persisted for fukin years and the common denominator is Wenger.

Thats how they fool themselves - by looking at each game in isolation, forgetting everything that has gone before. (Although deep down I really believe that even the most hardened AKB MUST realise that his time has come and gone)

[franksav63]

I've mentioned it before and on another thread. The AKB like to take each game in isolation.......

With an abject performance like today at Nowrich they'll analyze it to death.
It'll be one bad mistake by Mannone that cost us. Or maybe it was the international break. Or we didn't play with enough tempo. We were a little jaded. We were unlucky. Ramsey was poor today. If that shot had of gon in etc, etc.....

If we get a good win against decent opposition or put a run together they wont analyze it to death.
All is rosy in the Wenger garden, the good times are back and you're not a real fan for doubting 'leProf'. Lets all get behind the team or feck off down the lane.

They seem to forget its like groundhog day for some of us and theres apattern thats has persisted for fukin years and the common denominator is Wenger.

Thats how they fool themselves - by looking at each game in isolation, forgetting everything that has gone before. (Although deep down I really believe that even the most hardened AKB MUST realise that his time has come and gone)

You also forgot that they'll mention.... ''but we're only 2 points behind Everton for 4th place'' or ..... ''we're got players coming back soon from injury''..... ''we're still in all competions''.... bla bla... bore....zzzzzzzzzz

[Peeman]

Manager of the decade out thunk by Chris Hughton Nuff said

[I Hate Hleb]

What sort of a genius ......

goes into a season with 1 young, talented but still learning goalie and two absolutely shite reserves;

a defence lacking proper quality cover for when the inevitable injuries occur;

a midfield in which 3 of the players were unfit for the start of the season (2 of which have proven unreliable fitness wise for a good few years now and the other recovering from a whole season out but even then, with only one season's experience behind him); another who is still coming to terms with having had his leg broken, is shot of confidence and is himself only young; a youngster with less than half a season in the top flight behind him; 3 wide men who put the 'con' into the word 'inconsistency'; and a new signing from abroad who might have struggled to settle into the pace of the PL (but thankfully hasn't); and inexperienced cover for the one player - Arteta - that doesn't suffer from any of the above.

A forward line obviously devoid of pace, strength in numbers and most of all proven goalscoring quality?

Mr Arsene Knows, of course!!

Is that down to stubbornness or just bad judgement? Or perhaps it's a combination of both? One thing is certain, given that it's accepted that Wenger still had money had his disposal come the end of the transfer window, the AKB's can't use the usual excuse and blame a lack of funds for it!!

[g88ner]

What sort of a genius ......

goes into a season with 1 young, talented but still learning goalie and two absolutely shite reserves;

a defence lacking proper quality cover for when the inevitable injuries occur;

a midfield in which 3 of the players were unfit for the start of the season (2 of which have proven unreliable fitness wise for a good few years now and the other recovering from a whole season out but even then, with only one season's experience behind him); another who is still coming to terms with having had his leg broken, is shot of confidence and is himself only young; a youngster with less than half a season in the top flight behind him; 3 wide men who put the 'con' into the word 'inconsistency'; and a new signing from abroad who might have struggled to settle into the pace of the PL (but thankfully hasn't); and inexperienced cover for the one player - Arteta - that doesn't suffer from any of the above.

A forward line obviously devoid of pace, strength in numbers and most of all proven goalscoring quality?

Mr Arsene Knows, of course!!

Is that down to stubbornness or just bad judgement? Or perhaps it's a combination of both? One thing is certain, given that it's accepted that Wenger still had money had his disposal come the end of the transfer window, the AKB's can't use the usual excuse and blame a lack of funds for it!!

Good post.

It's a self inflicted mess, I'm afraid.

[SteveO 35]

What sort of a genius ......

goes into a season with 1 young, talented but still learning goalie and two absolutely shite reserves;

a defence lacking proper quality cover for when the inevitable injuries occur;

a midfield in which 3 of the players were unfit for the start of the season (2 of which have proven unreliable fitness wise for a good few years now and the other recovering from a whole season out but even then, with only one season's experience behind him); another who is still coming to terms with having had his leg broken, is shot of confidence and is himself only young; a youngster with less than half a season in the top flight behind him; 3 wide men who put the 'con' into the word 'inconsistency'; and a new signing from abroad who might have struggled to settle into the pace of the PL (but thankfully hasn't); and inexperienced cover for the one player - Arteta - that doesn't suffer from any of the above.

A forward line obviously devoid of pace, strength in numbers and most of all proven goalscoring quality?

Mr Arsene Knows, of course!!

Is that down to stubbornness or just bad judgement? Or perhaps it's a combination of both? One thing is certain, given that it's accepted that Wenger still had money had his disposal come the end of the transfer window, the AKB's can't use the usual excuse and blame a lack of funds for it!!

The same fella that has been rotating all of the above mistakes around different areas of the team since 2008. The same guy who said you can't say you are a big club and sell Fabregas and Nasri. The same bloke who ripped the spine out of the Invincibles team within a year and did the same with the 2008 side, the only side who have subsequently looked like they could be challengers. The same bloke who plays a lone paceless striker whether its Shrewsbury Town at home or Barcelona away. The same bloke who thinks we have 11 captains. The same bloke who has overseen a 16 year tenure with a fabled youth academy that has failed to produce a single striker of PL standard in all that time. The same bloke who handed us our worst start in a century last season, making his last minute purchases with all the composure of a six year old with a tenner in the pick n mix aisle, and is only marginally doing better this time around. The same bloke who for seasons convinced himself we had 5 top class centre halves, one of whom Djourou is embarrasingly the club's longest serving player, one of whom picks up £60k per week for playing reserves football and another bunch that refuse to jump. The same bloke who decided to throw Jenkinson, Lansbury and Traore to the wolves at Old Trafford last season resulting in the most humiliating result in generations.

The same patronising old fart that will still be here in 2017 that's who

The guy is a joker of the highest order but luckily for him his employer's are an even bigger waste of space

[SteveO 35]

So there's a simple fact that before the end of October we are again already out of the Premier League title race - 10 points adrift and with visits to OT and Stamford Bridge still to come - so we can safely say that pipe dream is over before it began for another year

Its impossible for us to win the CL and the manager refuses to allow us to be competitive in the FA Cup because the business end of that competition disrupts our commitment in the 4th placed trophy

So as usual what is the most we can hope for - perhaps winning the Credit Card Cup and pipping the Spuds to 4th?

Is this now what it means to be a Gooner in October ?

[shu]

Well said Steve , i don't really know where to start. But what about selling your best striker for 25m and buying unproven for 13m , why did we not go out and spend 30m on a replacement , so as October ends we have
RVP 8 Giroud 1 , says it all really.

I wish we could get rid of Wenger and Stan and bring in the new owner. The only way Wenger will leave will be Ill health

[SteveO 35]

Well said Steve , i don't really know where to start. But what about selling your best striker for 25m and buying unproven for 13m , why did we not go out and spend 30m on a replacement , so as October ends we have
RVP 8 Giroud 1 , says it all really.

I wish we could get rid of Wenger and Stan and bring in the new owner. The only way Wenger will leave will be Ill health

I think if Kroenke sells out before Wenger's contract renewal date, that is the only other way there could be a change but realistically the new contract will be signed next Summer - they won't let it run down to expiry in the Summer of 2014. I can't see there being a buyer next Summer, so in reality we are stuck with Wenger for quite some time yet.

The thing is at least 70-80% of fans would welcome it. It might seem like there's a lot of us who want him gone tomorrow after a result like yesterday's but beat Schalke and QPR and it'll be the same big Wenger love-in at the bowl. There are still thousands like my old man who has being watching the club for 50 years + and has had a season ticket for decades that still maintain he's the best man for the job and that we're lucky to have him as our manager. They won't even enter a debate as to who would replace him because he simply can't be replaced in their minds.

When we were playing entertaining football like we did in 2008 and not winning anything I kind of had some sympathy with their arguments. We were developing a new young team who at times were breathtaking to watch. But sadly ever since Spain and Barcelona became all conquering, watching Wenger transform us into a pawper's version of those two, has become BORING. Yes, I don't actually even think we play football that is good to watch these days. I used to hold the view that win, lose or draw I was always treated to a decent game of football under Wenger.....but in the last 3-4 season I can honestly say I have witnessed countless performances that bore me every bit as much as GG's 1995 vintage where we didn't have a midfield capable of playing a through ball. The problems are different this time round but the end product is the same - toothless, boring, trophyless football

[northbank123]

Sick of being subjected several times every single year to abject surrender at shit teams like Norwich. One method of playing and if that doesn't work we plod on with it and wait 70 minutes before we make ineffective changes.

Another fucking season supporting Man City it is then.

[highburyJD]

sorry if I sounded terse. I am attempting to respond to several people, who then say thats not what 'I' mean
it's difficult debating 1 v 3 or 4,
also the 'fact' bit was tongue in cheek - I did say in the spirit of Bababenitez

Wenger has made choices/taken gambles in his career that have not initially been successful,
he persisted, we can call that stubborness or confidence in judgement.

Pires was not great at first, 2nd season he was one of the best players I've ever seen - guess which wing he played on was not the issue. There was an old bloke that sat behind me and specifically moaned about that a lot. The point I'm trying to make is Wenger had confidence in his judgement and it paid off.

Petit was played in a new position, started off OK then went a bit slack. Admittedly when we lost to Blackburn I think it was Adams who blew his top. For whatever reason Petit turned it round 2nd half of the season and was brilliant, creating one of the best midfield partnerships I've ever seen. Eventually the judgement paid off.

Song is an issue on here... but he undeniably improved - and was sold at a large profit. Abilitywise from the POV of some (Wenger and Villanova) the initial judgement was vindicated, on a financial basis Ivan and SilentStan will have thought the same. Yes Fulham away as a startpoint is an unbelievably low bar - but that was what our initial perception of Song was based on.

Those three, and WorldClass Weah and Henry, had moments where it looked like it wasnt ever going to work - I attribute their eventual success to the belief the manager gives them. If he tells them they will play whatever that can remove the shackles of pressure and true potential can be reached- which is what I think happened for the above players careers. Obviously the other path is for complacency to set in and a players potential can be stunted.

Wenger is how he is. IMO intelligent players will flourish under him
but on a man management basis his preference for carrot over stick has encouraged some players to over-rate themselves.
Fergie likes a stick, a hairdyer and a flying boot
but he's also been clever/lucky enough to create a position for ManUre where they get the most in demand players- Ince, Keane, RVN, Rio, Veron, Tevez, Ronaldo.

Picking up the b-list players means you have to get them up to the top level - harder to do through just terror.

It has felt in this thread that Wenger's player picking and development skills are being dismissed
that would be ridiculous, he is awesome in those fields
and has to be because his skill set is pretty much limited to them

he's a players manager

[Nos89]

Looking at our position; its as simple as this - money.
Utd, chelski, citeh not afraid to splash the cash, whilst we can claim some kind of moral high ground of self sufficency, it doesn't win the EPL. It may work in germany and italy but it doesnt work here.

The other difference is in the managers ability to be brave and try something different. Why put a multi talented forward on the bench and not use him to change the match? Arshavin playing in his natural position would've made a difference.

If Arsenal were an animal it would a Giant Panda - admired worldwide, but pampered, spoilt, lazy and impotent.

[Natural Born Gooner]

Looking at our position; its as simple as this - money.
Utd, chelski, citeh not afraid to splash the cash, whilst we can claim some kind of moral high ground of self sufficency, it doesn't win the EPL. It may work in germany and italy but it doesnt work here.

The other difference is in the managers ability to be brave and try something different. Why put a multi talented forward on the bench and not use him to change the match? Arshavin playing in his natural position would've made a difference.

If Arsenal were an animal it would a Giant Panda - admired worldwide, but pampered, spoilt, lazy and impotent.

Very true

[QuartzGooner]

Currently I feel Arsenal are like a hyena.
A bit dangerous, feeds on the scraps others leave behind, and when it's manager says it can win the league others accuse it of "Having a laugh".