As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
rodders999 wrote:Does everyone agree that it is not possible for Arsenal to lose on Saturday and Arsene Wenger to be Arsenal manager next season?
Nope.
He will stay, and the majority will still back him - and always will. Not to mention that our collapse was so spineless that 4th is being heralded as an achievement again. If we had been right in it after 30-32 games then collapsed horrifically to a comfortable 4th we would be getting panned in the press. But because we bottled it earlier and more horrifically we are now hearing lines like "Xth season in the CL in a row" and "what if Ramsey wasn't injured".
The idea that he has to leave if we don't win relies on one of two things: either that his new deal is contingent on winning a trophy or that he will accept he's failed and walk away. Neither happening imo.
I mean no offence when I say this nb123 but that is lazy analysis - the majority no longer support him (and I refuse to believe otherwise) but sadly there is a majority who have resigned themselves to the fact that he will be left in charge as long as he is making money for the club I really believe that a lot of people would protest now were it not for the fact that they believe it would do no good
LaughingGooner wrote:So am presuming the regular posters actually believe they represent the views of the silent majority??
Interesting to hear what evidence that this is the case???
You are presuming wrong. I for one am under no illusions that those (myself included) that want Wenger gone are still in the minority. I believe the majority of match day attendees in the Conglomerates are still pro Wenger.
I do believe there is a growing middle group that is becoming increasingly disilusioned but mostly aren't yet at the stage where they actually actively want him gone.
LaughingGooner wrote:I am getting pissed off with Wenger......the poor tactics, the awful record in the big games, lack of investment in the transfer window.
But then I visit this forum, witness the distorted debate and the hatred shown towards him, and I instantly revert to defending him.
To say the club is going backwards is just plain wrong and will argue this with anyone.
It's a complaint we hear alot. But if you filter through the over the top stuff there are some anti-Wenger posters on here that will debate with you in an intelligent and moderate manner.
Augie - go to a match at the Emirates and then suggest that a serious anti-Wenger stance is the majority mentality. Look at the scale of protests and banners. Plenty of people may grumble on the internet but there isn't a consensus behind wanting him out. The one thing that I think would hasten his departure was fan pressure - he cannot stand being questioned and views fans who disagree with him as the great unwashed - but bar one or two moderate and very isolated incidents there's been nothing of note.
Laughing Gooner - depends what period you're looking at. Whilst we've been treading water for the last half-decade clearly we have gone backwards since a decade ago and even considerably since 2007/08 imo when we had an exciting young team with plenty of enthusiasm and quality and what's more playing some very good football consistently. Unfortunately instead of adding the 2 or 3 players we needed Wenger allowed the foundation of a very good team to crumble and we're still rueing it.
Remi Garde has announced he is stepping down as manager of Lyon for personal reasons. This may be totally insignificant to this thread...but thought I would share.
Am criticiaing the distorted debate here, but my views are being distorted when I hear such one sided comments from many here claiming the club is not going forward. I firmlybelieve we are progressing. But I cant ignore the 9 long years since our last trophy and our lack of mental and physical strength in the games which really matter.
Will Wenger mount a really serious attempt on the title next year??
I think he will but only if he builds on the Ozil signing.
I believe our team now will have more potential than the 2007/08 team. It was criminal that we didn’ t buy the established players which could have won us silverware.
When we win on Saturday, am hoping many will approach next season with confidence, for many reasons:
Ramsay and Walcott will be fresh and fit for season (expect Liverpool to start very badly).
We have the best central defensive partnership in the PL
Young players such as Walcott, Gibbs, Jenkinson, Ozil, Ramsay and Szczesnyhave improved this season and will continue getting better. (Sadly I expect Wiltshire to come back from Brazil with furthr niggles which hold back his development.
Established players such as Carzola, BFG and Podolski will still play a big part next season
We will spend big this summer, I have no doubt about that, following Ozil’s capture. If, and I know people will roll their eyes now, we sign a key defensive midfielder, a right back, a truly world class striker and back up keeper, then I will look forward to the season with huge optimisim.
Mate your positivity stems down to your presumption that we will not suffer any seriously inconvenient injuries next season and the apparently foregone conclusion that we will be signing a number of big players this summer.
Not only hypotheticals, but (especially based on the past few years) unrealistic hypotheticals.
Okay, so I'm not allowed to presume we may sign some key players, but you are happy to assume we will pick up injuries??!???
Doesn't spending 42m on Ozil give you just a little optimism that we may follow that up with another key signing??
Am criticiaing the distorted debate here, but my views are being distorted when I hear such one sided comments from many here claiming the club is not going forward. I firmlybelieve we are progressing. But I cant ignore the 9 long years since our last trophy and our lack of mental and physical strength in the games which really matter.
Will Wenger mount a really serious attempt on the title next year??
I think he will but only if he builds on the Ozil signing.
I believe our team now will have more potential than the 2007/08 team. It was criminal that we didn’ t buy the established players which could have won us silverware.
When we win on Saturday, am hoping many will approach next season with confidence, for many reasons:
Ramsay and Walcott will be fresh and fit for season (expect Liverpool to start very badly).
We have the best central defensive partnership in the PL
Young players such as Walcott, Gibbs, Jenkinson, Ozil, Ramsay and Szczesnyhave improved this season and will continue getting better. (Sadly I expect Wiltshire to come back from Brazil with furthr niggles which hold back his development.
Established players such as Carzola, BFG and Podolski will still play a big part next season
We will spend big this summer, I have no doubt about that, following Ozil’s capture. If, and I know people will roll their eyes now, we sign a key defensive midfielder, a right back, a truly world class striker and back up keeper, then I will look forward to the season with huge optimisim.
Which is fair enough, but I would argue that Wenger won't build on the Ozil signing because I honestly believe Ozil was forced onto Wenger by the board to some degree. I do not believe Arsene will spend big because to do so would be to admit failure.
I also question the belief that Jack and Theo will remain injury free and in top form for a whole season - something neither have managed to date. Cazorla for me is a luxury player and should be the cream on a cake that is solid hard working top level players, he should add the bit of flair we need, not be relied on to work hard in midfield.
I'd also say I haven't seen any improvement in Jenko, Gibbs or Chesney. To me they are at the same technical level they were at last season.
northbank123 wrote:Augie - go to a match at the Emirates and then suggest that a serious anti-Wenger stance is the majority mentality. Look at the scale of protests and banners. Plenty of people may grumble on the internet but there isn't a consensus behind wanting him out. The one thing that I think would hasten his departure was fan pressure - he cannot stand being questioned and views fans who disagree with him as the great unwashed - but bar one or two moderate and very isolated incidents there's been nothing of note.
Laughing Gooner - depends what period you're looking at. Whilst we've been treading water for the last half-decade clearly we have gone backwards since a decade ago and even considerably since 2007/08 imo when we had an exciting young team with plenty of enthusiasm and quality and what's more playing some very good football consistently. Unfortunately instead of adding the 2 or 3 players we needed Wenger allowed the foundation of a very good team to crumble and we're still rueing it.
A few different reasons in play here -
The gestapo at the grove do not allow the displaying of banners unless they are submitted for approval in advance - the club will try to hide behind health and safety reasons for this but the reality is, this is the same club that require questions to be submitted in advance for the agm and I dont if there is a fire hazard with them
Secondly it also has to be acknowledged that there are a large number of tourists and corporates attending every game at the grove. These people are there to be entertained and not to make some political/anti establishment gesture and the only thing they contribute to the "occasion" is money cos they dont get involved in either a positive or negative way
Finally your point about fan pressure driving him out is indeed relevent but I would believe that it isnt happening because too many Gooners dont believe any changes will come from protesting. I continue to believe that we are always on the cusp of a major backlash from the fans but it never quite gets there but reactions like villa and wigan (to name but 2) are always bubbling away under the surface and waiting to explode and when that day comes, new contract or no new contract, wenker will be made fully aware of how his supporters have turned against him
northbank123 wrote:Not only hypotheticals, but (especially based on the past few years) unrealistic hypotheticals.
The only realistic comparison regarding transfer spend is the most recent year though, in which we picked up Özil and didn't scrimp on the readies. Sure, the striker issue was a sore point, but I don't think a completely pessimistic attitude is warranted.
Regarding the LIverpool "inside sources" on Suarez, I don't think their info was worth the paper it was printed on. Let's face it, of all the supposed transfer "rumours" published to make up column inches over the course of a year, I'd be surprised if one or two in a hundred ever actually come to anything - after all, those sources get paid for the info whether it turns out to be true or not.
For what it's worth, I do believe that the majority of supporters are at least willing to give AW the benefit of the doubt, especially given that we're talking about maybe a year or two of his remaining in that position at most. I also think that to call the dip in form this season a "collapse" is a little harsh, given that it directly correlates with our worst period for injuries. If that consititutes a "collapse", then so does the dip in form shown by LFC and Everton towards the end of the season.
Looks like Wenger's prediction that no club will do business before the World Cup holds about as much water as a cullender.
If he knows his targets, then bid for them. The transfer window may not open until 1st July but we could have agreed terms with any player who took Wenger's fancy.
It seems to me that the reason Wenger obfuscates is due to the silly belief he'll get a better price if he does his usual last minute trolley dash, but the problem then is most decent talent has already been snapped up.
I hope Özil was a board signing, and I hope they do it again whilst Wenger spouts off in Brazil as it seems the only way we'll get some quality. Otherwise it'll be Wenger waving his chequebook at Ligue Une/Deux at 23.45 on 31st Aug in an effort to nickle-and-dime Toulouse over £2m.
DB10GOONER wrote:...I honestly believe Ozil was forced onto Wenger by the board to some degree.
Based on what evidence? From what I've read, AW took a significant personal interest in the signing and it was his personal intervention that convinced Mesut to join - in the latter's own words!
I don't buy this theory of AW considering big signings to be admissions of failure - the fact is that he had to manage the team for 10 years with his ability to spend drastically curtailed by the board, not vice versa. He couldn't say that to the press though (it being part of his job to put the best possible spin on the situation), so he had to come up with some other soundbite.
Last edited by turricaned on Tue May 13, 2014 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I really believe that a lot of people would protest now were it not for the fact that they believe it would do no good 
