Wenger signing new deal soon

[brazilianGOONER]

Q: You know what Arsenal would be without the realists?

A: s***s

samis???

[USMartin]

Martin I think this place actually began in any meaningful sense in I think early 07/late 06.. First post in 05 then no-one for two years... then Smoothy and it went from there...

Thanks for the info. though the point still stands - every forum was much more fum then., And if this had opened before from 2005 forward would have been a total downer by comparison

[the playing mantis]

so the board decide tactics, and team selection (AA in the fa cup vs chavs)..........

[brazilianGOONER]

i'm glad that he signed. probably the best man for the job.

[flash gunner]

i'm glad that he signed. probably the best man for the job.

Dont i remember you saying if he hadnt signed a keeper by September the 1st you'd be calling for his head? Well only 2 weeks to go and you will change your mind about him being the best man for the job then!!!!

Personally im gutted he has signed an extension and was hoping he would go gracefully in May 2011

[USMartin]

so the board decide tactics, and team selection (AA in the fa cup vs chavs)..........

NO.

But the the Board do effectively decide who is there to select from and who is there to play in what formation.

Simple question - do you seriously believe that the players the manager brought in from 1998-2005 nad thew players he has brought in from 2005-now are purely the same exact sort of players and if not that the differences in his selections are purely coincidental?

Better still do you believe Arseene Wneger had no role in choosing who was bought and brought in from 1998-2005?

[AA23Northbank]

YIPPEEEEEEE


AAHHH one problem , WE GOTTA LISTEN TO THE 'REALISTS' PISS AND MOAN FOR ANOTHER 4 YEARS


OH WELL !!!

Party time!!!

[g88ner]

Simple question - do you seriously believe that the players the manager brought in from 1998-2005 and the players he has brought in from 2005-now are purely the same exact sort of players and if not that the differences in his selections are purely coincidental?

Exact? no. Similar? in some ways, yes.

Invincibles:

Lehmann - cheap signing that worked out. Almunia was a cheap signing that has proved less successful. Schwarzer might be the next cheap 'keeper to get a chance.
Lauren - similar price to Sagna? similar age? similar experience?
Cashley - homegrown. Gibbs & Clichy are also "homegrown"
Campbell - experienced free transfer. Similar to Gallas?
Toure - homegrown.Vermaelen & Koscielny were far more expensive.
Ljungberg - cheap, young midfielder signed from Halmstad. Nasri?? - not as cheap, not as inexperienced?
Gilberto - cheap & experienced midfielder. Song & Diaby - cheap and inexperienced.
Pires - cheap winger in his mid-twenties. Rosicky, similar price, similar experience?
Vieira - cheap, inexperenced youngster. Fabregas?? Diaby? Song? Denilson?
Bergkamp - already at the club, so not a Wenger signing.
Henry - expensive, young forward. Arshavin - expensive, old forward? Van Persie? Chamakh? Adebayor? Eduardo?

Even another major success, Petit, was a mid-twenties French defender with little international experience.

Anelka, Cygan, Stepanovs, Grimandi, Wreh, Boa Morte, Edu, Silvinho, Luzhny... the list of inexperienced, cheap signings throughout Wenger's reign in endless.

Wiltord, Jeffers and Reyes weren't cheap, but then again neither were Theo, Arshavin and Nasri, so....

The main difference in policy is that we sell them much younger than before. Not sure our buying policy is all that different, though.

Also, competition for players seems to be much higher than in the late-nineties, so perhaps Wenger is just struggling to find players of the same quality as before???

Better still do you believe Arseene Wenger had no role in choosing who was bought and brought in from 1998-2005?

[steve1987]

[quote="g88ner"] Also, competition for players seems to be much higher than in the late-nineties, so perhaps Wenger is just struggling to find players of the same quality as before??? [/b]

I think that's hit the nail on the head.

He's doing similar things, just not getting so lucky with signings.

Your examples of Pires, Freddie and Henry stand out for me - who would have believed they would have gone on to be the outstanding players they did. In terms of so called 'marquee' signings, they rank somewhere alongside Rosicky, Nasri and Chamakh.

Things haven't changed that much at Arsenal in the past 5,6,7, 10 years. We're still only 3-4 players short of a world-class side again. Stick Jens, PV4, Pires and Henry back in this team, and then see where we are.

It's just getting the transfers right - and Arsene's luck / judgment is running short.

[marcengels]

Invincibles:

Lehmann - cheap signing that worked out. Almunia was a cheap signing that has proved less successful. Schwarzer might be the next cheap 'keeper to get a chance.
Lauren - similar price to Sagna? similar age? similar experience?
Cashley - homegrown. Gibbs & Clichy are also "homegrown"
Campbell - experienced free transfer. Similar to Gallas?
Toure - homegrown.Vermaelen & Koscielny were far more expensive.
Ljungberg - cheap, young midfielder signed from Halmstad. Nasri?? - not as cheap, not as inexperienced.
Gilberto - cheap & experienced midfielder. Song & Diaby - cheap and inexperienced.
Pires - cheap winger in his mid-twenties. Rosicky, similar price, similar experience?
Vieira - cheap, inexperenced youngster. Fabregas?? Diaby? Song? Denilson?
Bergkamp - already at the club, so not a Wenger signing.
Henry - expensive, young forward. Arshavin - expensive, old forward? Van Persie? Chamakh? Adebayor? Eduardo?

Even another major success, Petit, was a mid-twenties French defender with little international experience.

Anelka, Cygan, Stepanovs, Grimandi, Wreh, Boa Morte, Edu, Silvinho, Luzhny... the list of inexperienced, cheap signings throughout Wenger's reign in endless.

Wiltord, Jeffers and Reyes weren't cheap, but then again neither were Theo, Arshavin and Nasri, so....

The main difference in policy is that we sell them much younger than before. Not sure our buying policy is all that different, though.

Also, competition for players seems to be much higher than in the late-nineties, so perhaps Wenger is just struggling to find players of the same quality as before???

g88ner - look at it this way: (what the players were before they joined us)

Llungberg - Regular Swedish international
Gilberto - World Cup winner
Pires - World Cup winner, European Championship Winner
Henry - World Cup winner
Overmars - World Cup semi finalist, European Cup Winner
Wiltord - French top scorer of the year, European Championship winner
Lehmann - German International.

THIS is the standard of player we were signing

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

Simple question - do you seriously believe that the players the manager brought in from 1998-2005 and the players he has brought in from 2005-now are purely the same exact sort of players and if not that the differences in his selections are purely coincidental?

Exact? no. Similar? in some ways, yes.

Invincibles:

Lehmann - cheap signing that worked out. Almunia was a cheap signing that has proved less successful. Schwarzer might be the next cheap 'keeper to get a chance.
Lauren - similar price to Sagna? similar age? similar experience?
Cashley - homegrown. Gibbs & Clichy are also "homegrown"
Campbell - experienced free transfer. Similar to Gallas?
Toure - homegrown.Vermaelen & Koscielny were far more expensive.
Ljungberg - cheap, young midfielder signed from Halmstad. Nasri?? - not as cheap, not as inexperienced?
Gilberto - cheap & experienced midfielder. Song & Diaby - cheap and inexperienced.
Pires - cheap winger in his mid-twenties. Rosicky, similar price, similar experience?
Vieira - cheap, inexperenced youngster. Fabregas?? Diaby? Song? Denilson?
Bergkamp - already at the club, so not a Wenger signing.
Henry - expensive, young forward. Arshavin - expensive, old forward? Van Persie? Chamakh? Adebayor? Eduardo?

Even another major success, Petit, was a mid-twenties French defender with little international experience.

Anelka, Cygan, Stepanovs, Grimandi, Wreh, Boa Morte, Edu, Silvinho, Luzhny... the list of inexperienced, cheap signings throughout Wenger's reign in endless.

Wiltord, Jeffers and Reyes weren't cheap, but then again neither were Theo, Arshavin and Nasri, so....

The main difference in policy is that we sell them much younger than before. Not sure our buying policy is all that different, though.

Also, competition for players seems to be much higher than in the late-nineties, so perhaps Wenger is just struggling to find players of the same quality as before???

Better still do you believe Arseene Wenger had no role in choosing who was bought and brought in from 1998-2005?

Sorry chaps but I don't think the difference between 1998 - 2004 and 2006 - 2010 is age / experience / cost of players. I think it comes down to what goes on inside their heads!

So many of the current squad look as if they just couldn't give a shit during important matches, with Arshavin being the worst offender.

Arshavin / Diaby / Clichy / Nasri / Denilson / Walcott are all great athletes and very talented footballers but so often they look as if they're having a kickabout in the park.

Their concentration can be awful and most of them can't adapt to suit the conditions as a match unfolds. Classic example yesterday - L'pool down to 10 men with 45 mins to go but we just keep trying to thread the ball slowly through the middle of their packed defence.

And (with the exception of Vermaelen) where are the horrible bastards that you need to win tight games? Like Keown, Bould, Vieira, Petit, Winterburn, Bergkamp, Lauren, Lehmann?? Players that could outplay the opposition but also have a damn good scrap if that's what was needed on the day.

I think that too many of the current squad are just too comfortable and too complacent and until Arsene sorts that out, things will stay the same.

[merson_is_god]

I'd rather have Wenger in charge than watch George Graham's teams bypassing the midfield with long balls pumped up to Campbell or Smith to nod down for Wright! Although they were good times!

[USMartin]

Simple question - do you seriously believe that the players the manager brought in from 1998-2005 and the players he has brought in from 2005-now are purely the same exact sort of players and if not that the differences in his selections are purely coincidental?

Exact? no. Similar? in some ways, yes.

Invincibles:

Lehmann - cheap signing that worked out. Almunia was a cheap signing that has proved less successful. Schwarzer might be the next cheap 'keeper to get a chance.
Lauren - similar price to Sagna? similar age? similar experience?
Cashley - homegrown. Gibbs & Clichy are also "homegrown"
Campbell - experienced free transfer. Similar to Gallas?
Toure - homegrown.Vermaelen & Koscielny were far more expensive.
Ljungberg - cheap, young midfielder signed from Halmstad. Nasri?? - not as cheap, not as inexperienced?
Gilberto - cheap & experienced midfielder. Song & Diaby - cheap and inexperienced.
Pires - cheap winger in his mid-twenties. Rosicky, similar price, similar experience?
Vieira - cheap, inexperenced youngster. Fabregas?? Diaby? Song? Denilson?
Bergkamp - already at the club, so not a Wenger signing.
Henry - expensive, young forward. Arshavin - expensive, old forward? Van Persie? Chamakh? Adebayor? Eduardo?

Even another major success, Petit, was a mid-twenties French defender with little international experience.

Anelka, Cygan, Stepanovs, Grimandi, Wreh, Boa Morte, Edu, Silvinho, Luzhny... the list of inexperienced, cheap signings throughout Wenger's reign in endless.

Wiltord, Jeffers and Reyes weren't cheap, but then again neither were Theo, Arshavin and Nasri, so....

The main difference in policy is that we sell them much younger than before. Not sure our buying policy is all that different, though.

Also, competition for players seems to be much higher than in the late-nineties, so perhaps Wenger is just struggling to find players of the same quality as before???

Better still do you believe Arseene Wenger had no role in choosing who was bought and brought in from 1998-2005?

You raise an interesting point or two here. I don't think anyone issuggesting however that we spent massive amounts of money before other than relative to what we are spending now.

I think there are one key differences - is that we relied less upon players with potential and more upon players with proven quality. From there we got good deals buy gambling on players with health issues (physical or emotional), players such as Marc Overmars, Nwankwo Kanu, and Emmanuel Petit to name a few. Add to that a few out-of- favor players whose value was within our scope - Thierry Henry, Robert Pires for example.

Toss in some lesser known veterans that the manager knew would solidify the suqad - Gilles Grimandi, Remi Garde and the like. And trhen an astute Bosman move in Sol Campbell.

You can see that Arsene Wenger was very astute in how he picked his players to keep the price of building his teams down below what other clubs did during this period. The difference now is that where the bargian players then were largely or proven quality there are largely players of high potential now but niot necessarily high development or achievement when bought. whether teenagers or into their 20s.

As for teenagers that difference is even more signifciant perhaps - from 1998-2005 the teens borught in were the likes of Patrick Vieira from AC Milan's first team, Nicolas Anelka From Paris St Germain's first team and Cesc Fabregas from Barca's world-renowned youth system , and largely were players whom like Michael Owen could break into and succeed in the first team immediately. Today's youngsters are the likes of Denilson, Havard Nordveit and Theo Walcott, who come from clubs of far less erpedigree and come to Arsenal full of potential, but as the same stage as well, Theo Walcott in terms of development proven quality and achievement.

I think the reason this is the case is because in fact the market has changed as much because of the clubs with sugar daddies inflating the market as simply the fact that other top clubs are scouting and recruitng in similar ways to how Arsene Wenger always has - the difference being they and their Board's willingness to invest more money to get greater return on the pitch.

[USMartin]

so the board decide tactics, and team selection (AA in the fa cup vs chavs)..........

NO.

But the the Board do effectively decide who is there to select from and who is there to play in what formation.

Simple question - do you seriously believe that the players the manager brought in from 1998-2005 nad thew players he has brought in from 2005-now are purely the same exact sort of players and if not that the differences in his selections are purely coincidental?

Better still do you believe Arseene Wneger had no role in choosing who was bought and brought in from 1998-2005?

[g88ner]

[g88ner - look at it this way: (what the players were before they joined us)

Llungberg - Regular Swedish international
Gilberto - World Cup winner
Pires - World Cup winner, European Championship Winner
Henry - World Cup winner
Overmars - World Cup semi finalist, European Cup Winner
Wiltord - French top scorer of the year, European Championship winner
Lehmann - German International.

THIS is the standard of player we were signing

Ok, but Henry was only available because he'd been a flop at Juve. He was a gamble in the same way as many others we have signed since - and if I remember rightly, opinion was split on him for the first few months before he exploded!

Pires - similar to Rosicky, no? similar price, similar age, similar potential. Hleb, too.

Gilberto was a world cup winner, but he was also an unknown to even Wenger before the tournament. He liked what he saw and got him on the cheap. Anyway, when he liked what he saw of Arshavin, he snapped him up for big money.

Overmars, like Kanu, was a gamble and only available to a club like us, at such a low price, because he'd been out injured for god knows how long!

Ljungberg was a Swedish international, but then again Bendtner is a regular for Denmark, Senderos for the Swiss and Eboue is a regular for Ivory Coast - not sure international recognition for small nations means much, really.

Lehmann was the reserve 'keeper (behind Kahn) for Germany. Again, he was a cheap signing that paid off.

Wiltord may well have been top scorer in France, but Eduardo was unstoppable in Croatia. Also, Kevin Phillips and Darren Bent have been unstoppable in England, yet "quality" isn't a word I'd use to describe either. Or Wiltord, for that matter!

All I'm saying is that the type of player we sign these days is similar to how Wenger has always worked.
- most players are cheap, but Wenger has spent decent money on players like Hleb, Theo, Eduardo, Arshavin, Sagna, Vemaelen, Koscielny and Arshavin, in the same way as he spent decent money on Henry, Jeffers, Wiltord and Reyes. There's not a world of difference.

In my opinion, the main difference is that the market has been saturated. Back in 1998, Wenger was one of the few managers who was looking on the continent for young players with potential - now, they're all at it, and the pool of players hasn't increased! it's basic maths. Wenger's job is getting harder.

Plus, limited success means the "stars" of the Arsenal team become restless and end up leaving.
- would we have kept Pires, Vieira, Henry, Bergkamp, etc. without a trophy for 5 years? I doubt it. Success breeds success.