The Gooner Forum

Arsenal 1991 wrote:

USMartin wrote:

augie wrote:Boomer I am against the board for a few reasons -


2. I keep hearing shit about how committed this board are to our club and how they see themselves as custodians but what evidence is there of that ? Show me one of those board members who hasnt been cashing in on the increase in share prices by flogging some of their shares and that move hardly suggests commitment does it ? I hear constant comments about how not taking dividends from the club is so brilliant by the people concerned but that is just a face value shallow view and totally ignores the fact that by not taking dividends the club balance sheets look better which in turn raises the value of the shares and club.

Now this again is a great point. I can’t understand this defence of the Board at this point honestly. In this case the reason being that they are taking far more money out of the club itself this way. As you note in your final paragraph it is very possible that they financial prudence does not Have the club’s long-term survival behind it. I find it very disconcerting how much our Board sound like the right-wing politicians who preach cutting debt and deficit by decreasing spending on public programs which help all sectors but stare at you like someone stuck thumb up their arse without asking when you talk about increasing taxes to the wealthy.

All this talk about ending up like Leeds if we invest any more in the team while they go out and pocket a few million here a few million there, another 30 million in Mr. Fiszman’s case, and if its up to her, another 100 million when some buys Lady Bracewell-Smith’s shares, sounds a bit less than genuine to be honest. At this point I would rather they did opt to go down the dividends road and sold Highbury which together would have had far less negative impact on the football club and allowed them to be rewarded for their stewardship of the club and a deserved return on their investment(at least for those who actually did invest as opposed to inheriting their shares). It would just be a smaller profit. But since these individual hardly have to worry about money compared to us who aren’t millionaires, would that be so unacceptable for them?

Just out of interest, if you take out the yank how many shares do the board own?

Actually less than 20% (closer to 14-16%) after Lady Bracewell-Smith's dimissal and the Carr Family selling off it's holding. The Board actually even with Mr. Kroenke's holding controls about 43-46% of the club. As long as Mr. Usmanov and Lady Bracewell-Smith to not link their holdings and no one else is forced off the Board that 45% or so is really as powerful as 75% in terms of controlling the club now.

augie wrote: Jeez this is a long post....dont confuse me with martin please

Why don’t you want to be a universal target of resentment and hate because of your views, constantly facing attack insult and false accusation? Don’t you want to have people who complain about thread hijacking come into threads and behave like Jack and his choir did on the island intimidating and press-ganging anyone with the temerity to oppose their views when you post or open a thread?

Don’t you find this fun? Why don't you? I've been told I do……

g88ner wrote:
I knew you would't even attempt to answer the question! just deflect attention away instead. Top work, Martin

Not true at all. I just won’t answer on your terms because I believe you over-simplify the issue. Using imagery to summarize someone’s views is not putting words in their mouth if the image accurately reflects their actual words or you genuinely believe it accurately reflects them. Now would such imagery in fact accurately reflect their views would be an absolutely valid question. A question I could answer honestly as yes from my perspective.

In going through all this if I were guilty of anything in fact it might be stereotyping and over-simplifying in summarizing people and their views at times in much the same manner I and my views are stereotyped and over-simplified constantly and to sometimes do so out and anger and or frustration. So to quote the book title “I am NOT Spockâ€

g88ner wrote: As for my "inconsistency"...

If I was attending a lecture on food hygiene, then I'd expect the lecturer to practice what he preaches. If, however, he was behaving in a similar fashion to those he condemns for poor hygiene, then I'd be annoyed. I'd be critical. Does that mean, to be consistent, I should be critical and annoyed at all people who are unhygienic? no, of course not - just the silly sod of a lecturer who can't live up to the standards that he set!

I just think that’s not nearly an appropriate metaphor at all.

This is not a lecture hall nor a lecture but an exchange of views on a message forum. One can argue it feels like a lecture but that is perception and not reality. That it feels like a lecture is solely down to the fact that quite obviously I am doing most of the talking. That it feels like a lecture however does not make it a lecture.

So that metaphor is wrong. This is not lecture but debate, even if I am doing 90% of the debating, and therefore the standards of conduct are the same for all participants, so this strict administration of rules of conduct in my posts but minimalist interpretation of those rules in other posts in dramatically inconsistent behavior plainly and simply, no matter it’s motivation.

For example you took of behavior beneath me when I deal with people as they do me. I don’t buy that. I am not some elitist who feels above anyone. I would never embrace such vanity or conceit about myself or my views or how I present them. I present this way to try to show people and I am not just making things up or pulling ideas out of my arse.

I am not Aristotle.

(note to Quartz – that’s two less option for list of flase conclusions as to who I am. So open your notepad and write in by “USMartin – NOT SPOCK. NOT ARISTOTLEâ€

In Arsene I trust.

USMartin wrote:

augie wrote: Jeez this is a long post....dont confuse me with martin please

Why don’t you want to be a universal target of resentment and hate because of your views, constantly facing attack insult and false accusation? Don’t you want to have people who complain about thread hijacking come into threads and behave like Jack and his choir did on the island intimidating and press-ganging anyone with the temerity to oppose their views when you post or open a thread?

Don’t you find this fun? Why don't you? I've been told I do……

No problem whatsoever being universally disliked and in fact it is a position I feel quite comfortable in I would like to think that there is a world of difference in my position in all this than yours........I make my feelings known and if somebody on here wants to agree/disagree/debate any point I make then I welcome this but you on the other hand continually beat the same drum on every thread regardless of whether the thread has anything to do with the board or not

What's this "board" thing everyone has arguments about?

FrenchGun wrote:What's this "board" thing everyone has arguments about?

MDF. It's a bit shit apparently.

augie wrote:you on the other hand continually beat the same drum on every thread regardless of whether the thread has anything to do with the board or not

I Don't disagree at all Augie. I do beat the same drum a whole lot of time because In my mind it's a drum that needs beating

But maybe the real point here is how exactly do you determine that an issue has nothing at all to do with the Board or how it has run the club recently? I am 100% deadly serious. How exactly do you, do I , does anyone decide that?

As I see it any issue that can be linked backed to decisions about saving money brought on some would say by building the new stadium, other like myself would say by the cash flow crisis created by re-developing Highbury, other have other answers too, can be said to be about the Board and its policies.

The financial situation at Arsenal since 2005 forced the breakup of the Invincibles, the implemnetation of the youth system, further use of the over-30 policy, a tightened wage structure among other things.. Just those things alone impact

The quality and experiemce of the football team as a whole
The quality and experience of the first eleven
The quality and experience of the reserves playing behind them
The ability to pay your top players appropriate and competitive wages
The abilty to attract top players with appropriate and competitive wages
The ability to offer higher transfer fees when desired

Add in the almost co-dependent relationship of the Board and Manager
and you impact

The Board's desire to pressure the manager to make changes if they wish
The Board's ability to sign a new manager who will work their way

MY point is simple the Club's current financial policy's - for me the Board's current policies - impact all of these things because like or not no matter how the facts fall in the end, these are financial issues, who you will or won't buy or who you can and can't buy, who you will and won't re-sign, the quality and experiece of your first eleven and squad as a whole, and how that squad compares to other squads, and what you win or don't win as a result.

So while some may not want it to be this way, if someome asks when we'll win the League again it is 100% valid to suggest that will happen only after the Board alters its spending and investment policies regarding the football team. Or if someone asks who might replace Arsene Wenger it is 100% valid to say many top coaches qwill not join us so long as the Board's current policies reamin in place.

We may not like to talk about or think abouut it all the time but if you ignore it these sorts of debates are about as useful as group discussions about how best to cook vegetables harvested on the planet Mars.

USMartin, just out of interest, do you mind me asking what job you work at? Of course you don't have to answer, but I'm just trying to put together a picture with regard to your personality type.

DB10GOONER wrote:

FrenchGun wrote:What's this "board" thing everyone has arguments about?

MDF. It's a bit shit apparently.

It all about the Arsenal Board.


From what I can tell the numbers look sound.
Give the screws and wall plugs you get given it has a strong foundation and will be strong for years to come.

DB10GOONER wrote:USMartin, just out of interest, do you mind me asking what job you work at? Of course you don't have to answer, but I'm just trying to put together a picture with regard to your personality type.

A torturer at Guantanamo? There's only so many times you can listen to how the board should have re-developed Highbury before you crack...

DB10GOONER wrote:USMartin, just out of interest, do you mind me asking what job you work at? Of course you don't have to answer, but I'm just trying to put together a picture with regard to your personality type.

My bet is either a career in IT or a chartered surveyor - in my 20 years in business the two 'types' that have the biggest problem with filtering data into meaningful and concise conclusions for their audience

I would also take a punt that an unhealthy obsession with Dungeons and Dragons during the puberty years was another trait

SteveO 35 wrote:

DB10GOONER wrote:USMartin, just out of interest, do you mind me asking what job you work at? Of course you don't have to answer, but I'm just trying to put together a picture with regard to your personality type.

My bet is either a career in IT or a chartered surveyor - in my 20 years in business the two 'types' that have the biggest problem with filtering data into meaningful and concise conclusions for their audience

I would also take a punt that an unhealthy obsession with Dungeons and Dragons during the puberty years was another trait

oh and what's that other nerdy game....(just googled) Games workshop.

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