IDIOTS

[REB]

I THOUGHT YOUR POINTS WERE STRAIGHT TO THE POINT ,, AND I AGREE WITH MOST OF IT,, BUT IF IM WATCHING A SPU&S -ARSENAL GAME AND I SHOUT OUT , DIRTY **** THEN I KNOW IM NOT BEEN RACIST BUT IT HAS BECOME A HABIT , AND IM SORRY IF I OFFEND AND I DONT MEAN TO BUT THIS IS ME AND AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED AS LONG AS THEY CHANT **** ARMY THEN I WILL RESPOND IN KIND,,


WAS ONLY MESSING WITH YOU ABOUT THE ST GEORGES FLAG,, WAS WAITING FOR THE BNP REPLY

[26may1989]

as i come from Norfolk i guess some people would refer to me as a farmer or sheep shagger but i wouldn't go running to my solicitor.

That's right Shu, it's exactly the same thing to call East Anglians sheep shaggers as it is to call Jews ****. Well done.

I still can't see why we'd want to abuse those Arsenal fans who are Jewish by using words that many of them find deeply offensive. Would we allow mocking songs and jokes about Arsenal fans who are disabled, or Arsenal fans who have been sexually abused? Thought not, so what's the difference with abusing Arsenal fans who are Jewish?

But, having had a good debate on it, it's clear several of us are going to stick with using this sort of racist language, regardless of what others think. That's a shame, but c'est la vie.

[26may1989]

And re the St George's flag, isn't it banned already, following the club's edict against all national symbols in light of the Greek Cypriot vs Turkish Cypriot rows of last year? Or was an exception made?

[REB]

And re the St George's flag, isn't it banned already, following the club's edict against all national symbols in light of the Greek Cypriot vs Turkish Cypriot rows of last year? Or was an exception made?

you can now bring national flags into the ground and wave them but not hang them

[26may1989]

And re the St George's flag, isn't it banned already, following the club's edict against all national symbols in light of the Greek Cypriot vs Turkish Cypriot rows of last year? Or was an exception made?

you can now bring national flags into the ground and wave them but not hang them

Oh my god, that's political correctness gone m....... No, I can't do it!

[Fabrestuta]

4. Why don't they sue the FA? The fact is "****" is used any time Spuds play, so you can't single out one team

OH FOR FUCK SAKE HOW MANY TIMES?

They cannot sue Spurs or the FA, they are not on Spurs or the FA's property, they are not buying a service provided by Spurs or the FA, Spurs and the FA have no legal duty of care towards these people with regard to racist chanting - THAT IS WHY THEY ARE THREATING TO SUE ARSENAL FC BECAUSE THEY DO!

You can't designate what people do or don't find offensive

No but with a bit of education and a bit of common sense you can have a fucking good guess.

You keep screaming about "it was Arsenal fans so Arsenal are liable" I know that, I'm not a fucking idiot. My point is, how does suing the club change that? If they go to the lane and Spuds fans are chanting **** are they going to sue them also? If they are so horrified surely they will.
This has nothing to do with being offended they are only after money.

And as for you attacking my point about what is or isn't offensive, that didn't make any sense what so ever. I was pointing out that people can't blame them for being offended, if in fact they are. I don't know what the fuck you were on about.

[dvbrisgooner1]

This is going to go on forever. I think it's fair to say that, for 99% of us, the Arsenal fans have cleaned up their act in this respect in that there are rarely (very, very rarely) songs being sung about Auschwitz etc as their used to be. However, I do not see shouting YIDDO (or any variation of the word) at Spurs fans and their players (and ex-players) as offensive. If somebody does find it offensive then that's up to them - we're all entitled to an opinion.

Whatever happens, it's not going to stop being used whether by us or Tottenham, so this debate has become pointless...hasn't it?

[Cus Geezer]

James Brown and Spike Lee...articulate?.....I'm not entirely sure that James Brown could actually talk (see 'Eddie Murphy - Raw').

Well I've not seen Eddie Murphy - Raw, but maybe that's a nod to the drugged up characature of himself that he turned into in the 80s, he was more than articulate in the 60s and 70s on black issues with songs like 'Black and Proud' and 'I don't want no one to give me nothing open up the door I'll get it myself' - but that debate will of course go of on a tangent so we'll leave it there.

as i come from Norfolk i guess some people would refer to me as a farmer or sheep shagger but i wouldn't go running to my solicitor.

What 26may1989 said.

So much for freedom of speech

The definition of Freedom of Speech in English Law:

Everyone has the right of freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without inference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society.....

And the legal prescription that prevents you shouting '****! ****!' if you so wish are held in the Race Relations Act of 1976.

if the chant is regarded as racist it must be strange coming from supporters who have a team that in recent years as fielded a team of black players and players from countries as diverse as Cameroon and Ivory Coast , let alone a Japanese (remember) and a ginger (legend Ray !!!)

Well if you bother to look through the thread again you'll see that we've already done that one. All I'll add is a quote from David Brent

"How can I be sexist? my mother was a woman"

And I don't know about what you've experienced in predominantly white Norfolk, but take it from a Londoner - I've met many people who are self confessed racists and see zero contradiction between this and the ethnic composition of their club - this includes more than a few Arsenal fans.

Racism is also rarely a blanket thing - some may like Blacks but not Asians and vice versa. Just because you like Ivorians, Spaniards, French and Brazilians, doesn't mean you automatically like Jews.

You keep screaming about "it was Arsenal fans so Arsenal are liable" I know that, I'm not a fucking idiot. My point is, how does suing the club change that? If they go to the lane and Spuds fans are chanting **** are they going to sue them also? If they are so horrified surely they will.
This has nothing to do with being offended they are only after money.

Do go through that article again and point out exactly where they've indicated that they are after the money.

In Tort Law the remedy is often monetary, but if the issue at hand is to simply make a point then nominal damages are often awarded - this being a very small amount. The point with Tort Law is often to put the claimant back into the position he had been before he was wronged - you could say that why should someone pay £30, £40, £50 even £60 for a match ticket to have someone shouting racial obscenities. The damages may well be covering this cost and a bit more for distress caused.

And again as pointed out, this is what the article says....

'Their solicitor, Lawrence Davies, a leading human rights lawyer at the London law firm Equal Justice, has asked the club to take immediate action to stamp out all racist chanting at the club.'

They have not actually sued the club.

And as far as stopping people shouting '****' at other grounds, well there is a thing in English Law called Judicial precedent, if this case establishes that shouting '****' at a football ground is racist and clubs are breaching a duty of care that they hold toward their fans, then the precedent formed in this case can form the basis of a claim at other grounds. Football clubs rather than facing more claims of this nature will take this issue more seriously and nip it in the bud early on.

[dvbrisgooner1]

Stop quoting the fucking law at people. We are not interested in the fact that you have read the statute. You don't agree with some people on here, fine. But stop trying to make out you're the only one who knows how the law works in this country.

All this nonsense makes you look like a more boring version of Statto from Fantasy Football.

[REB]

Stop quoting the fucking law at people. We are not interested in the fact that you have read the statute. You don't agree with some people on here, fine. But stop trying to make out you're the only one who knows how the law works in this country.

All this nonsense makes you look like a more boring version of Statto from Fantasy Football.

well said,, anyway im still calling the cnuts **** and to be honest dont care who agrees or disagree's

[Cus Geezer]

Stop quoting the fucking law at people. We are not interested in the fact that you have read the statute. You don't agree with some people on here, fine. But stop trying to make out you're the only one who knows how the law works in this country.

All this nonsense makes you look like a more boring version of Statto from Fantasy Football.

Do you know what I'd much rather come across as boring as a cross between Statto and a compliation of Dido's least exciting tunes than spout the stupid PC gone mad bollocks that has persisted throughout all seven fucking threads of this topic.

However, I think we might need to cool out a little. We're all Gooners here and none of us are racist. We're all entitled to our opinions.

I don't know why you think that racism is entirely about hatred, it isn't.

Your older relatives may well refer to black people as 'coloured' and mixed race people as 'half caste', does this mean they are a bunch of seig-heiling white supremacist - no it doesn't. But it doesn't take away from the fact that they are terms that are derogatory in origin, cause offence and are racist. This may well be something that they may not be aware of but it still is racist.

If however this is pointed out to you that these terms cause offence and why they cause offence and you are determined to still speak in these phrases, just to prove a point that people are not telling me what to say - then sorry pal - you are acting in a way that suggests that other people's cultural sensitivities are of lesser concern than your wish to say what you want just because you feel so inclined and yes it is racist.

[charliegeorgewhocanhitem]

Don't think any of us are going to change our stances on this one and it's going round and round in circles, quite boring now. I for one will still call spurs fans/players etc ****. I'm glad we no longer hear the real nasty stuff that used to be sung in the 70s/80 but to me they always have and always will be the **** as they are to themselves. I also think that anybody who tries to sue the club itself for this is a complete and utter *word censored* and I hope they fuck off up to the wrong end of the Seven Sisters Rd to support that pile of shite, they deserve each other.
See ya, byeeeeee

[Cus Geezer]

I also think that anybody who tries to sue the club itself for this is a complete and utter *word censored* and I hope they fuck off up to the wrong end of the Seven Sisters Rd to support that pile of shite, they deserve each other.
See ya, byeeeeee

Of course the irony being that if you slipped in the toilets at Ashburton Grove as a direct result of the place not being cleaned properly and as a direct result sustained an injury that made you incapacitated from work and lossed a considerable amount of earnings from this you'd probably sue the club to recover that.

I just hope that no one suggest that you should fuck off to White Hart Lane as you're not a proper Arsenal fan, should this hypothetical situation ever come to be.

[T.S]

Peace, at last.

[Hagbard 23]

Peace, at last.

BOLLOCKS TO THAT, FUCK THE **** TOTTENHAM **** SCUM.


HOW's THAT FOR POLITICALLY CORRECT???????


(Sorry Hag, had to censor that as it was a bit strong! I've got to do my moderator job sometimes! Don't want Ed getting the hump with me - TS)