The 'R' word

[antgel]

i really have hit a nerve havent i with some of you eh.too easy to wind up,typical and db10(is that your IQ)being irish,explains it all.there are too many whingers on this site plus what are you going to achieve if you are all throwing your dummies out of your prams.what are you all going to be like after the scum game when they beat us(hopefully im wrong) and rob van per fucks off to city eventually.have a nice day!!!!!!!!!

That's your best come back? Racism? You pathetic child. TBH I've heard worse, but it always disappoints me to think there are still low brow ignorant racist mongs like you breathing the same air as the rest of us. And the saddest thing is you wouldn't have the balls to say that to any Irishman's face, would you, keyboard warrior?

But you only get one. Any more racist comments and you're off here permanently.

Unless of course it is about "y** c**ts" in which case, fill your boots.

What? Are you accusing me of being racist or just generalising about the forum? Because if you are accusing me then you are an idiot and you should back up your claims before you bandy them around.

I don't use the "Y" word personally because we have as many (maybe more) Jewish fans as they do. Also some of our Jewish fans on here have stated they find it offensive, so I don't use it. The forum Admin have asterixed it so you can't actually write it. There is not much more we can do. We cannot justify banning people that use it when the scum actually use it themselves as a badge of honour.

I actually don't find the "Y" word offensive but then I'm not Jewish. Same as I don't find "Paddy" offensive. I do find racial stereotyping offensive though.

I can't dictate what people think but we do stop them posting anything that is racist on here.

Of course I'm not accusing you of being racist. I was speaking generally. I just find it hypocritical (not you personally) that when someone makes a racist comment about the Irish, they are rightly pulled up and told that one more and they're off.

But when it's about "****", it's a free-for-all, with the caveat that a letter is asterisked out. I found and still find this quite pathetic, a bit like when Gerry Adams could appear on UK TV without his voice. Do people *just have* to use the word *that much*?

Yes, I know all about the excuses, "well they use it", blah blah blah, I've heard it a million times. Doesn't change the fact that it's just as offensive as "nigger", "paki" et al, which would *never* be allowed around here.

I don't really care if some people want to be thick and bigoted, it's been like that for all-time, and ain't going anywhere soon. I dread to think what some people around here say about Jews at home, if they're happy to bandy about "****" so freely in public. But to read that one type of racism would result in a forum ban, but when it's towards Jews it's tolerated (and it is, let's be honest), sticks in the throat.

Easily the worst part of being a Gooner. (Until this season. )

For the excuse-makers: When did "****" last appear in the printed Gooner? I've been reading for as long as I've been going, and I don't recall it. Why don't they print it with an asterisk? What about in books, media etc?

I didn't want to hijack the thread, but I did want to explain that I wasn't referring to you personally.

[SWLGooner]

Of course I'm not accusing you of being racist. I was speaking generally. I just find it hypocritical (not you personally) that when someone makes a racist comment about the Irish, they are rightly pulled up and told that one more and they're off.

But when it's about "y**s", it's a free-for-all, with the caveat that a letter is asterisked out. I found and still find this quite pathetic, a bit like when Gerry Adams could appear on UK TV without his voice. Do people *just have* to use the word *that much*?

Yes, I know all about the excuses, "well they use it", blah blah blah, I've heard it a million times. Doesn't change the fact that it's just as offensive as "nigger", "paki" et al, which would *never* be allowed around here.

I don't really care if some people want to be thick and bigoted, it's been like that for all-time, and ain't going anywhere soon. I dread to think what some people around here say about Jews at home, if they're happy to bandy about "y**" so freely in public. But to read that one type of racism would result in a forum ban, but when it's towards Jews it's tolerated (and it is, let's be honest), sticks in the throat.

Easily the worst part of being a Gooner. (Until this season. )

For the excuse-makers: When did "y**" last appear in the printed Gooner? I've been reading for as long as I've been going, and I don't recall it. Why don't they print it with an asterisk? What about in books, media etc?

I didn't want to hijack the thread, but I did want to explain that I wasn't referring to you personally.

You clearly don't understand the difference between a Y1d and a JEW.

A Y1d is a Spurs fan.

A Jew is someone of the Jewish faith.

There are Jews who are also Y1ds, but not all Jews are Y1ds.

Not all Y1ds are Jews either.

[antgel]

Of course I'm not accusing you of being racist. I was speaking generally. I just find it hypocritical (not you personally) that when someone makes a racist comment about the Irish, they are rightly pulled up and told that one more and they're off.

But when it's about "y**s", it's a free-for-all, with the caveat that a letter is asterisked out. I found and still find this quite pathetic, a bit like when Gerry Adams could appear on UK TV without his voice. Do people *just have* to use the word *that much*?

Yes, I know all about the excuses, "well they use it", blah blah blah, I've heard it a million times. Doesn't change the fact that it's just as offensive as "nigger", "paki" et al, which would *never* be allowed around here.

I don't really care if some people want to be thick and bigoted, it's been like that for all-time, and ain't going anywhere soon. I dread to think what some people around here say about Jews at home, if they're happy to bandy about "y**" so freely in public. But to read that one type of racism would result in a forum ban, but when it's towards Jews it's tolerated (and it is, let's be honest), sticks in the throat.

Easily the worst part of being a Gooner. (Until this season. )

For the excuse-makers: When did "y**" last appear in the printed Gooner? I've been reading for as long as I've been going, and I don't recall it. Why don't they print it with an asterisk? What about in books, media etc?

I didn't want to hijack the thread, but I did want to explain that I wasn't referring to you personally.

You clearly don't understand the difference between a Y1d and a JEW.

A Y1d is a Spurs fan.

A Jew is someone of the Jewish faith.

There are Jews who are also Y1ds, but not all Jews are Y1ds.

Not all Y1ds are Jews either.

Okay, so I'm going to take your post at face value and assume it's not a wind up. I'm going to assume you're misinformed and don't know what you're actually saying, rather than stupid.

You have no idea what you're talking about, you're plain wrong, I can't ignore that. Go ask any Jewish person that you know (if you know any). At least 9/10 will tell you it's offensive, and the other 1/10 is allowing for statistical variation of morons.

I actually feel a bit better that some people might not even know the truth, it's just a bit difficult to believe.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/****
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/****
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/****
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... /entry/****
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dict ... ritish/****
http://dict.shmop.net/****/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**** suggests that it depends on tone of voice. I would dispute this but anyway, Gooners don't call say yeeds, it's clearly **** so it's irrelevant.

"When pronounced /ˈjɪd/ (rhyming with did), it can generally be perceived as a pejorative—and is used as a derogatory epithet by antisemites."

Interestingly, if you believe the same link (of course it's Wikipedia):
"However, the name was first given to the supporters as an insult, due to the large Jewish following at the club which is based close to the Jewish communities of North London."

Which implies that others called them **** first, with the obvious offensive connotation, and they sort of tried to "reclaim" it.

Still waiting to hear when and where you hear "****" in the printed Gooner, and anywhere else in public life.

[DB10GOONER]

Antgel, you raise some valid points and it is a topic that has been debated on here many many times.

I think you are probably right in that it was aimed originally at the scum as a derogatory term in football circles and I also agree they tried to reclaim it.

But I also think that many Gooners (and scummers) can diferentiate between using it in a football nickname sense (Gooners, Mosers, Baggies, Mancs, **** etc) and honestly don't think about the Jewish conotation and don't harbour any ill feeling towards Jews.

Does that make it less offensive to some Jews? Of course not.

In the same way I know some of my mates would slap the the shit out of anyone calling them a "Paddy", I also know many Oirishmen (myself included) that take no offense from the term. I suppose it is all down to interpretation and (often) tone of usage.

With regard to any possible inconsistancy in banning people for racism, let me just explain; Admin have asterixed the word **** as some Jewish Gooners complained that it offended them. But we also have had other Jewish Gooners state it doesn't offend them when used in a football sense to describe scum fans. If someone "qualifies" that word with a derogatory slur or racial stereotype or in a manner likely to incite or express racial intolerance or hatred then we deem it racist. For example; "You robbing **** *word censored*" would be racist. "You thick Paddy bastard" would be racist.

I know those are very simplified examples.

Just out of interest (and of course you do not need to answer this) are you Jewish and if so does your being offended by the word stem from personal experience of racism involving that word?

[Herd]

I'm sorry but usage of the word **** can vary ,in Yiddish it's used by Jews themselves ,and at the end of the day it's an abbreviation.

As an example we English are often described as being British or a Brit however I would not feel the need to call the race relations board if someone called me it .

However say the Word Paki ,an abbreviation of Pakistani and your labelled racist when at the end of the day its a shortening of a word just the same.

I dont use either myself preferring "red sea pedestrian" for our neighbours up the road after the Python thing .

I have many many Arsenal Jewish mates though who often refer to Spurs as "The ****" so I wonder where that leaves people.

I think its as much about intent as anything !

[kiwomya]

However say the Word Paki ,an abbreviation of Pakistani and your labelled racist when at the end of the day its a shortening of a word just the same.

Are you saying you don't find that offensive?

[HashKads]

I think this thread should be retitled 'The Y word'

[Yankee_Gooner_Dandee]

how is paki racist? it makes no sense. its like saying the word jap is racist, or yank is racist. stfu fucking stupid pc brigade.

[kiwomya]

how is paki racist? it makes no sense. its like saying the word jap is racist, or yank is racist. stfu fucking stupid pc brigade.

Incredible.

[Chippy]

how is paki racist? it makes no sense. its like saying the word jap is racist, or yank is racist. stfu fucking stupid pc brigade.

You have no idea of the cultural significance of "Paki" in British society. I might ask an American why "coloured" is racist. When I was at school it was the racist epithet of choice just before they hit a guy of south asian origin over the head with a bicycle chain. This was was often one of my mates who happened to be Indian.

[SWLGooner]

how is paki racist? it makes no sense. its like saying the word jap is racist, or yank is racist. stfu fucking stupid pc brigade.

Tell you what mate, there are plenty of people of subcontinental heritage in the States now, why don't you go up to one of them and call them a 'Paki', see how they react?

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

I'm sorry but usage of the word y** can vary ,in Yiddish it's used by Jews themselves ,and at the end of the day it's an abbreviation.

As an example we English are often described as being British or a Brit however I would not feel the need to call the race relations board if someone called me it .

However say the Word Paki ,an abbreviation of Pakistani and your labelled racist when at the end of the day its a shortening of a word just the same.

I dont use either myself preferring "red sea pedestrian" for our neighbours up the road after the Python thing .

I have many many Arsenal Jewish mates though who often refer to Spurs as "The y**s" so I wonder where that leaves people.

I think its as much about intent as anything !

At the risk of being controversial - I love the word "froomer". Anybody else fall about laughing whenever they hear that one??

Before anyone calls The Thought Police - Froom in Hebrew = authentic, genuine or real. So a Froomer is someone that is Genuine.

[antgel]

I'm sorry but usage of the word y** can vary ,in Yiddish it's used by Jews themselves ,and at the end of the day it's an abbreviation.

As an example we English are often described as being British or a Brit however I would not feel the need to call the race relations board if someone called me it .

However say the Word Paki ,an abbreviation of Pakistani and your labelled racist when at the end of the day its a shortening of a word just the same.

I dont use either myself preferring "red sea pedestrian" for our neighbours up the road after the Python thing .

I have many many Arsenal Jewish mates though who often refer to Spurs as "The y**s" so I wonder where that leaves people.

I think its as much about intent as anything !

At the risk of being controversial - I love the word "froomer". Anybody else fall about laughing whenever they hear that one??

Before anyone calls The Thought Police - Froom in Hebrew = authentic, genuine or real. So a Froomer is someone that is Genuine.

"Frum" isn't Hebrew at all, it's Yiddish, probably descended from German. A "Frumer" is used to refer to practising religious Jews, like the ones who dress in black with the long sideburns, or even the ones who dress normally but wear the kippa (the head covering). It is not at all derogatory or controversial, so you don't need the small print.

As for Herd's comments - actually I agree with him on most footy matters :embarrassed: but on this he's plain wrong, despite me explaining that **** is offensive and providing several reputable links to back me up, it doesn't seem to be sinking in. I also find it almost impossible to believe he has lots of Jewish Arsenal mates who call Spurs "the ****."

I'll come back to DB10 ^^^ tomorrow, no time to respond fully now.

[SWLGooner]

I have 3 good Jewish Arsenal mates.

1. uses **** only to refer to hooligans
2. uses **** to refer to the teams
3. uses 'oven dodgers', he says it's in the same way black people use n----r. Somehow I don't think that will catch on. If he wasn't Jewish I'd slate him for it tbh.

[Herd]

I also find it almost impossible to believe he has lots of Jewish Arsenal mates who call Spurs "the y**s."

Fella you would be very wrong ,firstly I've known many Jews from the time I was very little little,my step grandfather was Jewish and was the son of a Rabbi ,and I very nearly attended the JFS in Camden when I was younger.

I've attended more Jewish Barmitzfahs, and Weddings,Funerals and stone settings, JC Dances as any Yok has ever done and I have mates from Redbridge, Southgate, Edgeware that are season ticket holders for 30 years plus at Arsenal.
I've taken in the flour at the ridding of leaven from my neighbours and relit their fires after passover.

The whole thing about Spurs gets re-hashed for no particular reason every once in a while to stir things up but I think we get a tad politically correct in this country about what we can or cannot say.

For me actions are far more important than words when it comes to fighting racism !
Have fought side by side with Jews Sikhs and others against the NF the BNP a which I seriously doubt if you have so please dont lecture me with your cut and paste life experience .