As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
SPARKSY wrote:Why does it feel a whole lot worse if VP was to go to United?
We stopped being rivals many years ago but as much as it gets up your nose if he goes to City, United would be a whole lot worse?
Not sure why really.
Try living in Ireland and listening to the *word censored* who know sweet fuck all about football but are United till they die
flash gunner wrote:I dont doubt Wenger could get another job elsewhere and that only backs up my thoughts on why does he stay if he is being held back by policies made above him?????
Another thing is in this hypothetical situation where i were a millionaire and was high up in an organsiation but were being held back from moving the company on by that organisation i would have NO hesitation in leaving especially if i could stroll into any other job i wanted within my field and didnt have to worry about the mortgage or food for the kids.....
When you consider the above Wenger HAS to be in it with Kroenke and the board, why would he stay? there is virtually no reasons
I don't think he necessarily has to 'be in it' as that sounds rather like a conspiracy and i don't think Wenger or the board or Kroenke are conspiring to sabotage the club. It's probably more the fact that he's earning a very good salary, has been at the club for a large portion of his career, is happy in general with the way he is allowed to run the club, and maybe even doesn't want to leave the club as he has an affinity to Arsenal. Those are valid reasons for him to stay at the club.
However, he could also truly believe in the board's vision of the club and be totally behind the self sustainability approach. Obviously i don't know if this is true or not as I'm not inside Wenger's head, but let's assume that this is the way he thinks. It is still not his responsibility as the direction of the club rests on the owner and the board of directors even if Wenger does believe in frugal spending. Those higher up than him are accountable for that side of the club whilst Wenger should be held acocuntable for the footballing side. Point being, even if Wenger does believe in the self-sustainability approach, it's the board of directors and the owner that have to pull their finger out and decide whether or not they want us challening for titles again, and if they do, to put pressure on the manager to deliver.
No conspiricy but by your posts you suggest Wenger is happy to go along with the boards policy and this from a man who is personally financially secure and would have some of the biggest clubs in the world clamouring for him if he ever left. Therefore he is as guilty for the demise of our club as anybody above or below him because he could make a difference or at least make a stand but chooses not to
MM99 wrote:Why should he have to tell the board or Kroenke how to do their jobs?
Do you work?
Yes, how is that releveant?
Have you never gone to your boss and told him from your perspective things arent working as they are? Even though by your reckoning you have no right to?
I have done it a good few times over my working life , sometimes they listen and change it, sometimes they tell you to get on with it..... Now if i had ample cash in the bank and other companies begging for my services and i was unhappy and they wouldn't listen i would be out that fucking door in a shot. Therefore Wenger is happy with his lot at Arsenal or is unwilling to make changes.
As is said earlier he is as guilty for the demise of our club as anybody above or below him because he could make a difference or at least make a stand but chooses not to
MM99 wrote:Why should he have to tell the board or Kroenke how to do their jobs?
Do you work?
Yes, how is that releveant?
Have you never gone to your boss and told him from your perspective things arent working as they are?
I have a good few times over my working life , sometimes they listen and change it, sometimes they tell you to get on with it..... Now if i had ample cash in the bank and other companies begging for my services and i was unhappy and they wouldn't listen i would be out that fucking door in a shot. Therefore Wenger is happy with his lot at Arsenal or is unwilling to make changes.
As is said earlier he is as guilty for the demise of our club as anybody above or below him because he could make a difference or at least make a stand but chooses not to
Which again goes back to my point of why should he be responsible if the board/owner can't do their jobs properly? Fair enough he can voice his opinions to them, but the buck stops with them.
The coach shouldn't take the flak if the head coach can't do his job.
The assistant manager shouldn't take the flak if the manager can't do his job.
The manager shouldn't take the flak if the board/owner can't do their jobs.
Rather than blaming Wenger for not putting pressure on his superiors for their failings, why not go to the heart of the matter and hold them accountable?
Perfect example is Chelsea. Abramovich is a proactive owner and so is his board. They are the ones that are dictating the future and direction of the club whether it is by appointing new managers or buying players. Our owner and board should be doing the same. The responsibility should lie with them.
MM99 wrote:Which again goes back to my point of why should he be responsible if the board/owner can't do their jobs properly? Fair enough he can voice his opinions to them, but the buck stops with them.
The coach shouldn't take the flak if the head coach can't do his job.
The assistant manager shouldn't take the flak if the manager can't do his job.
The manager shouldn't take the flak if the board/owner can't do their jobs.
Rather than blaming Wenger for not putting pressure on his superiors for their failings, why not go to the heart of the matter and hold them accountable?
Perfect example is Chelsea. Abramovich is a proactive owner and so is his board. They are the ones that are dictating the future and direction of the club whether it is by appointing new managers or buying players. Our owner and board should be doing the same. The responsibility should lie with them.
oh come on Wenger isnt just a football manager who happens to be at Arsenal.... He is in my opinion and from what i gather many at the club the Greatest Arsenal manager of all time and is the so called professeur. Im banging my head against a wall here (maybe we both are) but because of all this he has the clout to make a change but doesnt, you work it out...... and oh i do hold the board and Kroenke responsible for the continual mess of playing staff and continual loss of our very best players year after year at the club but Wenger is up there with them in the blame stakes
MM99 wrote:Which again goes back to my point of why should he be responsible if the board/owner can't do their jobs properly? Fair enough he can voice his opinions to them, but the buck stops with them.
The coach shouldn't take the flak if the head coach can't do his job.
The assistant manager shouldn't take the flak if the manager can't do his job.
The manager shouldn't take the flak if the board/owner can't do their jobs.
Rather than blaming Wenger for not putting pressure on his superiors for their failings, why not go to the heart of the matter and hold them accountable?
Perfect example is Chelsea. Abramovich is a proactive owner and so is his board. They are the ones that are dictating the future and direction of the club whether it is by appointing new managers or buying players. Our owner and board should be doing the same. The responsibility should lie with them.
oh come on Wenger isnt just a football manager who happens to be at Arsenal.... He is in my opinion and from what i gather many at the club the Greatest Arsenal manager of all time and is the so called professeur. Im banging my head against a wall here (maybe we both are) but because of all this he has the clout to make a change but doesnt, you work it out...... and oh i do hold the board and Kroenke responsible for the continual mess of playing staff and continual loss of our very best players year after year at the club but Wenger is up there with them in the blame stakes
I completely agree with you that Wenger has a much larger degree of power than most managers and is probably only beaten by Ferguson in that respect, but that still doesn't change the fact that you're putting blame at his door when it should be directed elsewhere.
I understand your point that you want Wenger to do more given the power that he does have, but like i said before, A) maybe he is happy in his situation and doesn't want to rock the boat, or B) he shares the same vision as the board. Either way it shouldn't be him that dictates those matters in the first place. It shouldn't be up to Wenger whether we should be self-sustainable or not. The direction of the club should not be down to him. If the board or Kroenke had specifically told him to invest in players but he had refused to do so then fair enough. But when they are perfectly happy to carry on this policy of selling our best players every season and feeding the "self-sustainable" bullshit then they are to blame. They are the ones with that responsibility and it should be them that the blame lies with.
As i said he has the clout to make a difference but doesnt, its up to each individual to guess why he doesnt but its clear he's not unhappy and in the meantime we drift along getting nowhere near major trophies year after year after year.... what more can i add apart from what i read in RVP's statement a couple of weeks ago that would suggest he thinks the same as many of us regarding the clubs direction
flash gunner wrote:As i said he has the clout to make a difference but doesnt, its up to each individual to guess why he doesnt but its clear he's not unhappy and in the meantime we drift along getting nowhere near major trophies year after year after year.... what more can i add apart from what i read in RVP's statement a couple of weeks ago that would suggest he thinks the same as many of us regarding the clubs direction
Indeed. I personally have never been this disillusioned by the club and it's the first time that i've approached the season with a "who gives a fuck" mentality. You may disagree with me, but until those at the very top decide it's time for the club to start challenging again and change the way the club is run then things will remain the same regardless of who the manager is. We need wholesale changes in the mentality of the club and this i'm afraid goes beyond simply replacing the manager or the assistant manager.
apart from what i read in RVP's statement a couple of weeks ago that would suggest he thinks the same as many of us regarding the clubs direction
