As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
supergeorgegraham wrote:By the way Augie I am going to ram your words back at you as you are very very wrong. Theo has arrived finally. Even experts in the game are saying so and we are fans not experts.
Tbh buddy I would give your comments more respect than I would the likes of jamie redknapp and the crab wilkins
Anyway just to repeat my feelings AGAIN.....I am not saying that wally will not be worthy of his wage demands in the future (although I am still doubtful tbh) but I am saying that he does not deserve that type of money as of yet
The problem there is that the time to decide is now. (Or a year ago but again Wenger has let this drag)
Wenger doesn't have the luxury of half a season to try to let him prove himself consistently up front. Either pay him and have some sort of agreement to let him play up front more often or sell him. Its now or never. There is no "as of yet" option.
Yet again its down to Wenger that it has got to this stage - not Walcott.
Wenger would have known about Walcot wanting to be given a chance to play up top long before it came out that it was a sticky point with his renewal. Even after it became known he still didn't give him the opportunity. What did Wenger do? Fuckin dropped him and played with NO centre forward ffs. Gervinho.
Seemed like Wenger was benching him to prove a point. Well it didn't fucking work and I think pressure has seen Wenger do a complete u-turn over Walcott (along with the other massive u-turn about having a "British core". )
Last edited by armchair on Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So what you are saying, if I am reading what you are saying correctly, is that because we are average we should pay walnut more in wages ? And you are berating me for a small club mentality
I have no idea how you have joined the dots there augie.
You said 100k isn't a squad player wage at manure. I showed it was.
I also voiced that Walcott is better than those players and worth his wage. If you are clutching at the straw that he is more important to Arsenal than those squad players are to manure then how do this show a small club mentality Why should we ridicule Walcott because we have Gervinho??? Can't follow your logic.
Small club mentality is to bicker about the 100k as another important player leaves. Small club mentality is to think 100k is over the top wages for a player like Walcott.
So what you are saying, if I am reading what you are saying correctly, is that because we are average we should pay walnut more in wages ? And you are berating me for a small club mentality
I have no idea how you have joined the dots there augie.
You said 100k isn't a squad player wage at manure. I showed it was.
I also voiced that Walcott is better than those players and worth his wage. If you are clutching at the straw that he is more important to Arsenal than those squad players are to manure then how do this show a small club mentality Why should we ridicule Walcott because we have Gervinho??? Can't follow your logic.
Small club mentality is to bicker about the 100k as another important player leaves. Small club mentality is to think 100k is over the top wages for a player like Walcott.
Spot on....yes life is tough for all of us in planet real world. But footballers get what they get,right or wrong. In this current madness Walcott is worth £100k, if that is what it is. If not,love him or hate him, who as a gooner truly wants him to go to a rival (like so many before) and f@@@ us over. If you do, lets spunk money on untried potential (again) and watch it not work. Either way,financial cost will be about equal...take your pick. Know what I chose...you may not agree, but pay as I do for my tickets, I have an opinion
To add to what Quartz said, perhaps Walcott was always going to develop fairly late. Don't think he even took up football as a kid until he was about 11 or 12. Kids these days often get signed up to academies by the time they're 6. He probably only progressed at youth level in the first place as a result of his pace, so as far as the basics he was probably a rawer talent than most 16 year olds when we bought him.
That being the case, and given Wenger’s apparent approach to coaching players, we were arguably the worst club for him to join as far as his immediate development went. A lot of the improvement in his game over the last 18 months has possibly been down to his own effort and extra work, albeit I think missing out on the 2010 world cup squad was the main motivating factor – I do seem to remember him saying he'd come back to training early that summer to work on his crossing etc.
I understand some of augie's concerns, especially as we'll inevitably have to negotiate another new contract in a couple of years with a further pay rise. I also think Walcott would be wise to understand Arsenal are probably his best option too. Neither of the mancs or chavs are gonna give him regular games up front, if at all, and Liverpool would be a step down – especially as Gerrard's decline speeds up and once Suarez inevitably gets picked off. Can't see him wanting to move abroad either.
But worth/value are entirely relative things and the facts are he is still in a stronger bargaining position than the club, he can get more elsewhere than he's asking us for and he does generate more money for the club than probably any other player. So even if 100k a week were to be considered overpaying him I don't think it would be by so much that the wage issue one way or the other is worth fixating on. I'm not as convinced as others that he's already "arrived" and there's definitely been an increasing element of overrating everything he does the closer his contract gets to expiring imo but ultimately it's in the club's best interests to keep him. Everything else is as unnecessary as tinsel on a fanny.
But worth/value are entirely relative things and the facts are he is still in a stronger bargaining position than the club, he can get more elsewhere than he's asking us for and he does generate more money for the club than probably any other player. So even if 100k a week were to be considered overpaying him I don't think it would be by so much that the wage issue one way or the other is worth fixating on. I'm not as convinced as others that he's already "arrived" and there's definitely been an increasing element of overrating everything he does the closer his contract gets to expiring imo but ultimately it's in the club's best interests to keep him. Everything else is as unnecessary as tinsel on a fanny.
I believe the technical term for that is 'Vajazzle'.
By the way, I was going to bring up some reasons as to why it's apparently taken Theo longer then most of us hoped to make progress at Arsenal but they were more or less covered by the good points made by Quartz, IU4GN and others. Well done lads - leaves more drinking and smoking time!!
Unfortunately augie, whether we believe he deserves it or if it's right or not to pay Theo that much, the fact remains that we stand to lose out a lot more - and not just financially - if we don't play ball and re-sign him.
green gooner wrote:Funny how footballers play their balls off when it's time to negotiate a contract or move away, RvP a prime example.
However, behind all the banter, I believe most of us would be happy to see Theo re-sign, if only to show a tad of continuity at the club.
We all agree, it's madness but in a world where Rosicky et al are on £70/£80k pw (or whatever)...then Walcott is ''worth''...qualified...£100k. or we buy untried or continental pony and end up spending the same over the duration. Re-sign him...if we get it wrong can't be ''wronger'' than the absolute waste of money we've spent in recent history....we all know who they are ,and still on the payroll....Bendnter take a bow, and Denilson,and and and and!!!)
Sign the boy up now!!
It depends on Walcott's motivation. Despite anybody with a Twitter account knowing everything about the inner-workings of every modern day football club, it's impossible for you or I to say exactly to what extent it's about money and what extent it is about playing position (if at all).
If it is overwhelmingly or solely about money then yesterday is another nail in his coffin, because far from inducing us into paying what he wants it's more likely to either attract more interest from potential suitors and raise his wage demands, or both. Even if we were to offer him £100k/w we might well have missed the boat.
If it's about playing him up front then who knows how often he'll have to play there before he's satisfied he's not being duped into a new deal? I personally wouldn't be surprised if Wally did a U-turn and signed and subsequently saw his chances to play up front seriously diminished.
Either way, Arsene Wenger is a very stubborn man. It's taken Walcott on the brink of quitting to force him into giving Wally a chance to play up front despite Wally basically begging for a go there since joining as a kid. Now I'm not a fan of letting players pick the team and Wally never did much to suggest he'd be any good there (and still has a long way to go to convince me that he's good enough at a top 4 club to be depended on there) but you have to question the decision to leave Wally on the bench for the first month of the season (and beyond) whilst Gervinho up front has resulted in three of the most insipid, toothless attacking displays I've ever seen against Norwich, Schalke and Bradford, as well as costing us 2 points at City. He will certainly not want to admit being wrong over Walcott's ability up front or his worth.
I don't like having to pull Walcott's trousers round his ankles and place his penis in my mouth (in abstract metaphorical terms) but fact is him leaving would be another huge step on the road to being as shit as Liverpool.
And to finish... HOW CAN A MAN EARNING ABOUT £140k/w FOR CONTINUED MEDIOCRITY POSSIBLY HAVE A CONTINUING GRIPE ABOUT THE 'CRAZY MONEY' IN FOOTBALL?
even if Wally does sign contracts as everybody knows mean nothing these days.both parties are stuck between a rock and a hard place now but if Feos continued good form sees him become the player he starting too show at last then he will always have the upper hand,this could be just the beginning of years of will he wont he,same as the fabregas situation amongst others.unless we start challenging seriously a new Walcott deal is worth nothing,he wont stay too long in to it if the big clubs continue to sniff as our long term prospects continue to dive.If he does finally put pen to paper Wenker must build on it and spend some fucking money to put us back where we belong
Way I see it is that Walcott has taken much longer to start to reach a very high potential. Pace is his greatest asset and between 23-27 he will have the best pace.
He will now be entering his best years so he wants a good contract now to coincide with that. I am sure he will be a great player at 28 but his golden time is the next four years.
All his time on the wing has made him an overall better player and some of his finishes have been awesome. Take a look at his second goal vs Newcastle and see that he quickly lifted the ball into the highest corner of the goal in quick time.
Augie I understand your comments on wages but Arsenal MUST start to move with the times because I am sick every time I see Van Persie score another cracker in the wrong red shirt.
All Arsenal are is the 11 players on the pitch and remember at the moment the squad contains Gervinho, Chamkah, Arshavin, Squallichi, etc etc
supergeorgegraham wrote:Way I see it is that Walcott has taken much longer to start to reach a very high potential. Pace is his greatest asset and between 23-27 he will have the best pace.
He will now be entering his best years so he wants a good contract now to coincide with that. I am sure he will be a great player at 28 but his golden time is the next four years.
All his time on the wing has made him an overall better player and some of his finishes have been awesome. Take a look at his second goal vs Newcastle and see that he quickly lifted the ball into the highest corner of the goal in quick time. Augie I understand your comments on wages but Arsenal MUST start to move with the times because I am sick every time I see Van Persie score another cracker in the wrong red shirt.
All Arsenal are is the 11 players on the pitch and remember at the moment the squad contains Gervinho, Chamkah, Arshavin, Squallichi, etc etc
See I can understand that and even agree with that sentiment but where we differ is how we judge if he has done enough to merit that type of money. I would sign off on the 75-80k per week with another 20-25k on top of it based on performances but cannot agree with the basic 100k regardless.
