Wenger signing new deal soon

[brazilianGOONER]

i'm glad that he signed. probably the best man for the job.

Dont i remember you saying if he hadnt signed a keeper by September the 1st you'd be calling for his head? Well only 2 weeks to go and you will change your mind about him being the best man for the job then!!!!

yes i did say that, but i still think we're signing a keeper and a defender before the window closes. i'm pissed off that he didn't solve those problems before the start of the season, but i don't believe he'll leave the squad as it is. if he does, then yes, i'll be furious.

[flash gunner]

i'm glad that he signed. probably the best man for the job.

Dont i remember you saying if he hadnt signed a keeper by September the 1st you'd be calling for his head? Well only 2 weeks to go and you will change your mind about him being the best man for the job then!!!!

yes i did say that, but i still think we're signing a keeper and a defender before the window closes. i'm pissed off that he didn't solve those problems before the start of the season, but i don't believe he'll leave the squad as it is. if he does, then yes, i'll be furious.

Well with no signings on the horizon i think its a bit quick to say he is the right man

[marcengels]

[g88ner - look at it this way: (what the players were before they joined us)

Llungberg - Regular Swedish international
Gilberto - World Cup winner
Pires - World Cup winner, European Championship Winner
Henry - World Cup winner
Overmars - World Cup semi finalist, European Cup Winner
Wiltord - French top scorer of the year, European Championship winner
Lehmann - German International.

THIS is the standard of player we were signing

Ok, but Henry was only available because he'd been a flop at Juve. He was a gamble in the same way as many others we have signed since - and if I remember rightly, opinion was split on him for the first few months before he exploded!

Pires - similar to Rosicky, no? similar price, similar age, similar potential. Hleb, too.

Gilberto was a world cup winner, but he was also an unknown to even Wenger before the tournament. He liked what he saw and got him on the cheap. Anyway, when he liked what he saw of Arshavin, he snapped him up for big money.

Overmars, like Kanu, was a gamble and only available to a club like us, at such a low price, because he'd been out injured for god knows how long!

Ljungberg was a Swedish international, but then again Bendtner is a regular for Denmark, Senderos for the Swiss and Eboue is a regular for Ivory Coast - not sure international recognition for small nations means much, really.

Lehmann was the reserve 'keeper (behind Kahn) for Germany. Again, he was a cheap signing that paid off.

Wiltord may well have been top scorer in France, but Eduardo was unstoppable in Croatia. Also, Kevin Phillips and Darren Bent have been unstoppable in England, yet "quality" isn't a word I'd use to describe either. Or Wiltord, for that matter!

All I'm saying is that the type of player we sign these days is similar to how Wenger has always worked.
- most players are cheap, but Wenger has spent decent money on players like Hleb, Theo, Eduardo, Arshavin, Sagna, Vemaelen, Koscielny and Arshavin, in the same way as he spent decent money on Henry, Jeffers, Wiltord and Reyes. There's not a world of difference.

In my opinion, the main difference is that the market has been saturated. Back in 1998, Wenger was one of the few managers who was looking on the continent for young players with potential - now, they're all at it, and the pool of players hasn't increased! it's basic maths. Wenger's job is getting harder.

Plus, limited success means the "stars" of the Arsenal team become restless and end up leaving.
- would we have kept Pires, Vieira, Henry, Bergkamp, etc. without a trophy for 5 years? I doubt it. Success breeds success.

Opinion on Henry was only split between those who knew genuine talent and those impatient with real talent (unlike these days when the impatience is with unproven youngsters)

What I am trying to get across is that these players, regardless of situation, where winner, achievers, developed....and the same cannot be said for many of those players you compare them to g88ner.

Bendner (not even a club regular) comparing with a regular for his club?
Wiltord scored the winning goal in the European championships and top scorer in France and played in the Champions League - compare him to Bent, even Eduardo? They guy played how many times on the wing for us?

You're not looking at it the right g88ner, just comparing re age and market value. I'm talking about developed, achieving winners. And Wenger is not interested in those anymore. What he spends the money on these days is something completely different.

And Arshavin - come one g88ner, you know that was a panic buy in January when we under pressure. didn't like him enough to buy him after the Euros (as wenger has stated he doesn't like to do business in january)

[USMartin]

[quote="marcengelsOk, but Henry was only available because he'd been a flop at Juve. He was a gamble in the same way as many others we have signed since - and if I remember rightly, opinion was split on him for the first few months before he exploded!

Every player is a gamble in that every player is an investment which can backfire with disappointing play, poor team attitude, a horrically bad challange , or stiuds getting caught in the turf or just something unexpected happening off the pitch. It doesn't matter who the player is or what they cose the same is true for every player.

The difference is that barring unforseen circumstances some players are better or worse gambles, and far more likely to provide a far greater return. I would definitely say Henry was such a player and not nearly comparable precisely becuase of that fact to the players he has biought since 2005 you are trying to shoehorn him in with. Some compparisons you make are valid -quite valid in fact. The Rosicky comparison to Pires is almost 100% spot-on. But a number of others such as hnery just stretch creulity a bit too far.

In my opinion, the main difference is that the market has been saturated. Back in 1998, Wenger was one of the few managers who was looking on the continent for young players with potential - now, they're all at it, and the pool of players hasn't increased! it's basic maths. Wenger's job is getting harder.

Plus, limited success means the "stars" of the Arsenal team become restless and end up leaving.
- would we have kept Pires, Vieira, Henry, Bergkamp, etc. without a trophy for 5 years? I doubt it. Success breeds success.

This last bit is all really good stuff. As I noted earleir I think other teams have started scouting in a similarly way to how we scout with the major difference being their willingness to invest more in order to acquire these players - the best example perhaps being ManU out-bidding us for Cristaino Ronaldo. Now we out-bid them for Aaron Ramsey true - but they went to 12 million for their Portuguese fairy while we topped them at 5 million for Ramsey.. In other words they wanted and believed more in the diving *word censored* immediate capability than they did Aaron Ramsey's long-term potential and impact and were willing to pay that much more for than than typically enough we were.

Agree that success breeds success this is why when everybody got on the transition bandwagon and began the talk in 20007 2008 2009 or 2010 how when these kids mature that will dominate European Football I wasn't buying it..

Our philosophy - whoever you chose to credit with or blame for it - has become one of perptual transition that always leaves us a couple of players short every year as we aer all too willing - whatever the reasons - to part with key players for the "right" price, whether that price is to be paid by us to the players or by other clubs to us - resulting in the team being the 2-3 players short we absolutley need to go forward.

Not only does this strategy all but eliminate any real chance to win the Premiership but it has already and will continue to risk our hold on that all-important Champions League place and revenue stream, and undermine the confidence of the players we do want tio keep that it is worth staying at Arsenal. And this was clear as far back as when we sold Patrick Vieira really. On Arseblog the morning after the sale was formally announced a member there said the first thing we needed to do was "learn to love fourth place". Wise words indeed. Not the ones we should have to listen to but he was bang-on wasn't he. Well if we feel that way and the Club feels that way how should ambitious players feel?

[g88ner]

Marcengels: What I am trying to get across is that these players, regardless of situation, where winner, achievers, developed....and the same cannot be said for many of those players you compare them to g88ner.
I'm not sure if we're having the same discussion here I'm not arguing that the past players were of better stock; I'm just saying that I doubt Wenger has deliberately changed his policy. It's more likely that the talent pool is of similar size, but the sharks have multiplied ten-fold, so Wenger has had to adapt, and take more risks on players he's probably not sure about himself.

Bendner (not even a club regular) comparing with a regular for his club?
If Bendtner played for Halstad, he'd be a regular just like Freddie was.

Wiltord scored the winning goal in the European championships and top scorer in France and played in the Champions League - compare him to Bent, even Eduardo? They guy played how many times on the wing for us?
Bent has one heck of scoring ratio in the Premier League, and for mediocre clubs - that's far more impressive than being top scorer in France, in my opinion.

Look, I liked Wiltord but he wasn't any better than some of the players we've bought in the last few seasons. Not talent wise or reputation wise. Even his international career wasn't all that impressive - he was always a member of the supporting cast. That said, he proved to be a vital supporting cast member for us, too.

You're not looking at it the right g88ner, just comparing re age and market value. I'm talking about developed, achieving winners. And Wenger is not interested in those anymore. What he spends the money on these days is something completely different.
Again, I don't agree that he's not interested in players like that anymore, because obviously he'd be nuts! problem is, as more teams are after the same players, it's pushed us into shallower waters in search of talent. That's why the success rate has dropped. Also, I'd image we're forced into acting earlier than we'd like, and instead of watching a player we like for several months, or years, we're forced into a faster decision process, and with that comes more risk.

And Arshavin - come one g88ner, you know that was a panic buy in January when we under pressure. didn't like him enough to buy him after the Euros (as wenger has stated he doesn't like to do business in january)
Perhaps. Although, I'm sure Wenger DID like him after the Euro's, but probably felt his price would rocket. We waited and got him for a reasonable price.

Much of it boils down to money.

[marcengels]

I know what you're saying g88ner, I just can't agree with your comparisons. Wenger has changed his policy due to the project. Again, you misunderstand my point, esp Bendnter. What we are now is a developing club - of course Bendtner would play regularly in Sweden. The point is that Ljunberg had been developed somewhere else, and we are developing Bendtner. The need to develop so many is not neccessary, which leads one to believe that Wenger, albeit with an eye of finances, now wants to mould his own team.

The rest of my list speaks for itslef - in comparison to the players bought since. Many of those players have few of the things (developed, proven quality, winners medals) that my list has. And he could get some of these type players, after all we don't need 20 new players. He just chooses not to.

[USMartin]

marc, I think a lot of what you say is bang-on, but your point that this is first aboutbuilding a team of his own rather than finances doesn't add up when there have been many top youth prospects acquired throughout Europe but for more than Arsenal were able or willing to pay for them.

Indeed Arsene Wenger as early as 2005 and 2006 made it clear that the lack of financial support drove the youth policy and indeed was the reason it was even put into effect, and he has in fact reiterated this in 2008 and in 2009.

I think the idea that he would have attempted this no matter - which is the implication - just doesn't stand up to Mr. Wenger's own words on why this "project" was commenced.

[marcengels]

marc, I think a lot of what you say is bang-on, but your point that this is first aboutbuilding a team of his own rather than finances doesn't add up when there have been many top youth prospects acquired throughout Europe but for more than Arsenal were able or willing to pay for them.

Indeed Arsene Wenger as early as 2005 and 2006 made it clear that the lack of financial support drove the youth policy and indeed was the reason it was even put into effect, and he has in fact reiterated this in 2008 and in 2009.

I think the idea that he would have attempted this no matter - which is the implication - just doesn't stand up to Mr. Wenger's own words on why this "project" was commenced.

I think he was advanced towards attempting this project - as said in an interview with French journalist Zavier Rivoir - that his distaste for the purchasing of trophies in the Chelsea model led him to want to produce something like he is trying now. Also, he has spoken on camera years earlier (altho during his time with Arsenal) of wanting to develop footballers in somewhere like Africa. I think this is proof of a mind to work with young players, against the building of a club based upon expensive purchases.

[USMartin]

I think the fact that he already acknowledged that finances drove this policy almost Immediately after Patrick Vieira's sale - a point at which Chellsea had won exactly one trophy with Abramovich's money.

The fact is he and the Club were eagerly spinning by now and trying to silence critics who were doubtful either of how money the club acyually had or was making available to spend. This not only successfully fooled some people but its anti-Chelsea tone pleased Gooners as well.

The fact is just today Arsene Wneger has said the following

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ ... 97910.html?

"For years we have no money. Now we have money and we cannot find players to buy."

Either Mr. Wenger is lying or the club have decided that enough time has gone by that maybe no one remembers what they were actually saying and they can avoid admitting they were deliberately decieving the supporters.

Now I'm sure someone will say they had to for business reasons - but did they? Would making only six or seven thousand pounds on their share price given that none of the Board members paid more than two thousand a share and several of them didn't pay a single penny?

And didn't those deceptive and misleading comments contribute to the frustration and anger aimed solely at the manager each of the last four years?