RIP Gary Speed

[frankbutcher]

I don't know if I am in a more qualified position Number 5. Somebody very close to me suffered from PTSD for seven years and was suicidal. I wanted to find out more why this person suffered and so did a part time psychology degree with the OU after work. Managed to get a first after five years but was still none the wiser

There is a stigma attached to mental health and in the macho male dominated career Gary Speed pursued the stigma would have been increased. There is support available for those who choose to ask for it but there are social barriers to seeking the assistance. This can increase feelings of isolation. On the outside the person may be putting on a front to maintain an image while being in turmoil. Individuals can keep this hidden from the deepest loved ones.

I have not heard any rumours so mental health may be wide of the mark. Perhaps Gary Speed's life was about to go out of control and suicide may have felt like the only option to keep control. Whichever way, I won't judge him as selfish, I will say a prayer for him and his family.

Well, you make a lot of sense my man, you always do when you post here.

Talking generally now, not linked to the reasons Speed may have had for doing what he did.

Being a father is the most important thing in the world to me, it means literally everything. I couldn't see a single instance of me not being around as being better for my kids. If I felt my mind starting to deteriorate there isn't anything I wouldn't do to keep myself fit to look out for them. No stigma or barrier could stop me from making sure I was able to properly be a parent.

My Mrs reckons it can be a split second thing where in you may never contemplate suicide even though you are depressed but for one moment things come down on top and you go through with it. I guess if you're unsuccessful you live to regret that moment. A lot of people don't get the chance.

Anyway I don't think I'm ever going to understand people doing things like that, whatever the reasons, my brain just can't accept it as a thing to do if you have other lives depending on you.

Makes your choice of signature all the more interesting!

[g88ner]

My Mrs reckons it can be a split second thing where in you may never contemplate suicide even though you are depressed but for one moment things come down on top and you go through with it. I guess if you're unsuccessful you live to regret that moment. A lot of people don't get the chance.

I'd agree with that.

One of my best friends took his own life after splitting with his girlfriend.

He was a perfectly normal, happy lad and I don't believe he suffered from long term depression. If he did, he hid is very well from everyone including those closest to him. He seemed to love life.

My take on it was that he just became irrational with grief, and momentarily lost control.

The sad thing is, I'm almost certain that after a day or 2 he would have got over the worst of it, and would probably have lived a full happy life.

I don't know; I just think you can look too deeply for a reason. For signs. But, I think in many cases it's just a moment of madness.

On a final note, I can understand what you say Number 5 about your family being the most important thing and I can understand Sid saying it's selfish, but these are comments made by rational minded people trying to understand what's going on in the mind of someone who was, most likely, thinking irrationally. It's just a pointless exercise, in my opinion. It's just sad all round, and Sid's comments did get under my skin a little, but never mind.

[augie]

G88ner is it possible that your friend did what he did for attention in the belief that he would be found before he died ? The wife's best friend split with her boyfriend of that time (almost 20 years ago) cos he kept screwing around behind her back - he pleaded with het to go back to him (again) and when she refused he went home and hung himself in his parents shed. Afterwards it was revealed that there were marks on his fingernails that suggested that he tried to get himself out of it but couldnt do so and sadly died Obviously not every situation is the same but would you agree that some people that do it actually have no intention of ending their life and expect to be found before it is too late ?

[g88ner]

G88ner is it possible that your friend did what he did for attention in the belief that he would be found before he died ? The wife's best friend split with her boyfriend of that time (almost 20 years ago) cos he kept screwing around behind her back - he pleaded with het to go back to him (again) and when she refused he went home and hung himself in his parents shed. Afterwards it was revealed that there were marks on his fingernails that suggested that he tried to get himself out of it but couldnt do so and sadly died Obviously not every situation is the same but would you agree that some people that do it actually have no intention of ending their life and expect to be found before it is too late ?

Erm, well my friend went to a secluded spot and put a nail gun to his head, so I've no doubt of his intentions.

But, yes - I think you're right about an element of attention seeking in some (if not many) cases. With my friend, it may well have been a mixture of grief and wanting to get his own back, which is clearly insane... but that's my point I suppose; it's temporary insanity where logic and reason goes out the window. Give it a day or 2, and I think he would have felt differently. Of course, I can't know that for sure though.

[wicklowgooner]

G88ner is it possible that your friend did what he did for attention in the belief that he would be found before he died ? The wife's best friend split with her boyfriend of that time (almost 20 years ago) cos he kept screwing around behind her back - he pleaded with het to go back to him (again) and when she refused he went home and hung himself in his parents shed. Afterwards it was revealed that there were marks on his fingernails that suggested that he tried to get himself out of it but couldnt do so and sadly died Obviously not every situation is the same but would you agree that some people that do it actually have no intention of ending their life and expect to be found before it is too late ?

Unfortunately having experienced something similar- posted earlier a good friend hanged himself- we were told that when a person hangs themselves it is a natural reaction to attempt to stop themselves from hanging hence the bruises and marks.

[QuartzGooner]

Simply one of the saddest threads I have read on here.

The person I knew who killed himself was drinking at a party with friends, not drunk, just a bit tipsy. They said he was in a good mood and making jokes.
Within one hour he had gone home and killed himself.
No one has ever found out exactly why he did it but he had talked of being lonely at times.

As has been said, there is yet to be an X-Ray/MRI for the mind.

[Barriecuda]

Unfortunately the mind, or perhaps the soul, can lose rationality at times and sometimes those moments can turn tragic. I do believe depression is something that is not easily seen externally; I believe people who feel like they suffer depression should make others aware of their condition and let them know.

That comes back to the stigma of the issue. People have a tendency to assume depression is a mindset, as opposed to maybe a temporary lapse in mindfulness. Perhaps more education is needed to 1. make people aware when they have signs of depression symptoms, and 2. to make it more socially acceptable to say to your friend "Hey, sometimes I don't feel myself and it's worrisome, can I know that you'll be there if I ever need someone to talk to?".

Just food for thought.

Still completely saddened by the loss of Gary Speed though. The outpouring of grief from the football community at large speaks volumes about what a big loss this is for everyone who he touched.

[northbankbren]

saw this live earlier and it broke my heart....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4PzcLoH ... re=related

[rigsby]

Bloody hell. That video is terrible to watch.

I don't think I've ever seen anything like this in football (Hillsborough etc of course, but I mean based around one person). With Rocky and a few others, although obviously tragic, the fact that illness was involved meant it was slightly easier to fathom. This is just sensational in its tragedy.

[djhdjh]

Not in Britain maybe but you must have heard of Robert Enke, surely? Not that this was necessarily as long-term as that but that was similar in that it was a suicide of a high-profile (probably more high profile actually) footballing person.

As someone who has personal experience with a lot of these issues there are two very interesting things to note on this thread.

1. Someone mentioned what Allardyce said and analysed it very well. The Mackem mentioned how he was surprised that it was a model pro like Speed that did this. The traits that made him a model pro are quite possibly exactly what did it (maybe they weren't too but as a general point I think it's worth saying anyway). I need to always get better can very easily become 'because I'm bloody crap now' and even worse 'and I'll never be good enough.'

2. People keep saying they can't believe he could have hidden it. You can, it's very easy to do so, especially if you're someone like Gary Speed who no one expected to be happy go lucky and so they wouldn't be surprised if he was a bit quiet but at the same time everyone always assumed he was OK because he was so with it and strong.

I personally very much hope it was a momentary thing rather than long-term. Not that it makes what happened any better, but at least it would mean he's had a good happy life generally beforehand. Nonetheless since the issues are being brought up they're worth dicussing anyway.

[DB10GOONER]

RIP to the poor bloke.

Just with reference to mental illness etc mentioned on here. One of my best mates killed himself a good few years ago. It was believed to be a spur of the moment thing after a break up with his girlfriend but we have since found out he was Bipolar (what used to be called Manic Depression) and not one of us knew it at the time. He took medication and was so normal etc. Then he missed his meds one day and threw himself under a train. A year later his brother (also Bipolar) hung himself.

The point is that "depression" and "mental illness" are just catch all terms that don't qualify the specifics of the person's situation or illness. With Bi Polar illness a person can be very happy one day and literally so down the next they kill themself. It can be that sudden.

Whatever the circumstances, it is still tragic that Gary Speed killed himself and left behind a wife and two kids that will probably never come to terms with the loss of their husband/dad.

[brazilianGOONER]

what is impressive in this thread is that most people here were close to someone who committed suicide. it's more common than you'd wish it to be

(i also lost a friend that way, a 35yo lad with 2 young kids and a wife)

[DB10GOONER]

what is impressive in this thread is that most people here were close to someone who committed suicide. it's more common than you'd wish it to be

(i also lost a friend that way, a 35yo lad with 2 young kids and a wife)

Unfortunately it is very common, BG.

It is believed to be the biggest cause of death for Irish males aged 18 - 25. In Oireland it's very much swept under the carpet because of the Church and the stigma still attached to mental illness of any kind so it is hard to accurately quantify the figures.

When my mate killed himself I remember a discussionn with about 10 work colleagues and every single one of them either had a relative or knew someone personally that had committed suicide.

I'm similar in a way to Number 5 in that I cannot understand anyone with kids doing it. My whole life revolves around doing the best I can for my kids and the thought of not being here if they ever really needed me makes me ill tbh. I don't condemn anyone that has killed themselves because I've never been where they are and don't feel qualified to do so. But I will say I'm still very angry and hurt by my mate's suicide. Maybe I'm wrong to feel anger towards him but I cannot help it.

[MK Gould]

It is believed to be the biggest cause of death for Irish males aged 18 - 25. In Oireland it's very much swept under the carpet because of the Church and the stigma still attached to mental illness of any kind so it is hard to accurately quantify the figures.

Not sure whether it is still the case now, but at one time the church didn't allow suicide "victims" to be buried in concecrated ground as it was deemed to be a sin to take your own life.

Another thing crossed my mind. The number of Japanese soldiers that killed themselves during WW2 because their culture forbid them to surrender. I wonder therefore whether it is possible for someone here, if confronted by circumstances that put them at odds with their upbringing/culture could take the same decision on the spur of the moment - and not necessarily as a result of mental illness....?

[QuartzGooner]

Another thing crossed my mind. The number of Japanese soldiers that killed themselves during WW2 because their culture forbid them to surrender. I wonder therefore whether it is possible for someone here, if confronted by circumstances that put them at odds with their upbringing/culture could take the same decision on the spur of the moment - and not necessarily as a result of mental illness....?

I have not had such a situation, but in my faith (Jewish) we are commanded to choose death rather than:

1.) Be forced to worship idols.
2.) De forced to commit adultery/incest.
3.) Be forced to murder someone else.

On top of the fortress of Masada in 73 C.E, such a scenario occurred when 960 Jews killed themselves, rather than be conquered by the Romans and sold into slavery.

Two women and three children survived and told what had happened.