The Gooner Forum

goonersid wrote:

flash gunner wrote:

goonersid wrote:Of course they did flash, they are fucking planters and have no right to be there in the first place. If they want stay then they should accept that the Falklands are Argentine.

Why? Because they are close to Argentina? OK the Channel Islands are now French. New Zealand now belongs to Australia. Many of the people on the Falklands have had generations of family living there, many are Chilean or of Chilean descent yet they voted yes too. Im not harking back for the days of empire and rightly so if countries want independence they deserve to have it, but it has to come from the people that live within that land.

Im not sure the percentages but the problem with Northern Ireland Sid is half the people want to be Irish and half want to be British, you must have seen many of the troubles, how the fuck do you sort that out? but when people of a country vote almost 100% to stay as they are there is very little argument, surely

Flash I can assure you I don't want to be part of a united Ireland and have held a British passport since I was 16, which I chose myself. I do consider myself Irish, but I ain't that fucking stupid not to know which side my bread is buttered.

And exactly the point I made above

augie wrote:Flash there is a large population in northern ireland that would vote for remaining part of britian rather than being an independent country for fear of whether they would survive on their own - it is a totally understandable viewpoint imo and maybe there is a degree of that with falklands people too as most of them have known nothing but british rule but my point is the fact that britian "won" the falklands through war/battle does not make it british land imo. That is not me trying to be contraversal but apart from clinging on to "the british empire" ideal, what benefit does owning the falklands have ? If thatcher played as prominent a role as some of ye suggest, in the breaking down of the berlin wall and giving east germany back to the germans then shouldnt she have applied the same principle with the falklands ?

Go back long enough and every piece of land on this planet was 'won' and named through war/battle. I dont know anything about ancient Irish history but I would bet if you go back long enough one group beat another group to claim it as ireland or eire (is that what its called?).

Surely all we can do today is respect the wishes of the people that live there and have lived there for generations, especially when its so unanimous?

Haven't been on here for a while and so missed the beginning/s of this thread....I am pleased to see there is one.....and that so far the majority of Gooners have callled it / her like it/she is


for me: (presntly unemployed and homeless) She is part of the system that reduced our lives to such dismal levels .....I could use the vernacular and simply call her the C U N T WHORE BITCH OF SATAN SHE TRULY IS....I could also...Naaaah! forget it....she is Dead Good Riddance to Evil Scum.


btw: What I have noticed is that the general opinion of those who have never faced unemployment, Homelessness and / or other serious hardships due to her policies seem to think she did the country good.....at least that's how it appears....I might be wrong.... until now I have never faced such challenging times.....and even if I didn't I would still say she was the instigator of many of today's political and legal ill's that keep the rich RICH and the Poor POOR.

I know it isn't as simplistic as that...But she more than anything desired power and wanted to return us to Victorian values....and if you look around you that is exactly what has now transpired....the gap between the haves and not haves is wider than ever before.....Her moral compass was indeed Dark and she is rightly perceived as either Brilliant or Evil...and those who never faced unemployment and homelessness seem to be the one's who love her...those who have faced such adversities see her as one of the 'evil' faces of modern politics.

Also, what is galling and sickening is that those (so called) opposing politicians are now serving up platiitudes of praise....instead of standing by their guns.....mind you what else would we expect of politicians...they are ALL a bunch of thieves and liars.

Augie

The Falklands have oil and gas reserves.
That is the reason the Argentine President is sabre rattling, faced with a poor domestic economy.
She wants a slice of the revenues and thinks she can force us to negotiate.

As for ownership, yes the British sailed miles and set up an outpost there.
Long before Argentina even existed as a country.
The islands were uninhabited, not conquered from anyone.

The Argentines are themselves merely descendants of Spanish Conquistadores, mixed in the main, with a lot of German and Italian immigration, and touch of Welsh.
They have a very low "Native American" population, and a very low ex slave former African population.

Besides, the Native Americans crossed over from Siberia and Manchuria anyway, and are believed to have fought people from the now Australia, who got there first.

The remnants of those Aboriginal people existed in Patagonia until the 1930's.

QuartzGooner wrote:Augie

The Falklands have oil and gas reserves.
That is the reason the Argentine President is sabre rattling, faced with a poor domestic economy.
She wants a slice of the revenues and thinks she can force us to negotiate.

Lets be honest. However you dress it up, most (all?) of the wars that Britain has been involved in since 1945 have been for business rather than humanitarian reasons. And if it wasn't for the oil and gas reserves our claim to the Falklands would have been abandoned long. Ok, so the propoganda is all about "protecting our citizens" but anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows that isn't true. Argentina were no different to us in that respect!

OneBardGooner wrote: she was the instigator of many of today's political and legal ill's that keep the rich RICH and the Poor POOR.

And you think the poor were getting richer before thatcher?

MK Gould wrote:

QuartzGooner wrote:Augie

The Falklands have oil and gas reserves.
That is the reason the Argentine President is sabre rattling, faced with a poor domestic economy.
She wants a slice of the revenues and thinks she can force us to negotiate.

Lets be honest. However you dress it up, most (all?) of the wars that Britain has been involved in since 1945 have been for business rather than humanitarian reasons. And if it wasn't for the oil and gas reserves our claim to the Falklands would have been abandoned long. Ok, so the propoganda is all about "protecting our citizens" but anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows that isn't true. Argentina were no different to us in that respect!

Bit of a circular argument really because then Argentina wouldn't be so desperate to 'reclaim' the island and it may well have continued under British authority without debate.

There's also the element of dick-measuring when it comes to actually defending the land. Can you imagine had we acquiesced and let the Argentinians effectively seize British land and take it as their own? Even disregarding the arguments about self-determination and natural resources we would have gone to war on that.

The population of the Falklands just before the war was 1,813 (it has increased since that time, providing service to the military). And it now costs the British tax payer around £75m per year to defend them, which equates to over £41,000 per person every year.

But the war itself cost £3bn, or £1.6m per Falkland islander....and that's not to ignore that 1,000 people died in the conflict (not in the invasion itself of course, but killed in our efforts to take it back).

It put Britain back on the Global map. We were once again a "player". It saved Maggie Thatcher her job (it was her government that cut its defences and "invited" the attack!).

No PM will ever now be brave enough to do the decent thing, but my personal opinion is that we (Thatcher received cross party support for action) should have lived with the embarrassment and moved on....

The Lady, ain't returning.

flash gunner wrote:I dont have a problem with people hating Thatcher and the posts from safcftm i can understand the hatred i just don't understand how people can celebrate her death or the death of anyone..... Celebrate the day she lost her job as PM yeah of course but her death!! it just bothers me big time that you can celebrate the death of someone personally i think its disgusting and reflects very badly on 21st century Britain

Absolutely agree with this. Well said Flash.

Just to inject some humour into this very heated thread, I offer you a very old joke from the Thatcher years.....

Mrs T was holding a Cabinet meeting with all her underlings. Shortly before luncheon the head waiter called in to take orders for food.

Mrs T ordered a medium rare fillet steak.

The waiter said "What about the vegetables ma'am?"

Mrs T said....."They will have steak too."

olgitgooner wrote:Just to inject some humour into this very heated thread, I offer you a very old joke from the Thatcher years.....

Mrs T was holding a Cabinet meeting with all her underlings. Shortly before luncheon the head waiter called in to take orders for food.

Mrs T ordered a medium rare fillet steak.

The waiter said "What about the vegetables ma'am?"

Mrs T said....."They will have steak too."

Where was her husband during all this? Probably still working on the A-Team, huh?

goonersid wrote:

flash gunner wrote:

goonersid wrote:Of course they did flash, they are fucking planters and have no right to be there in the first place. If they want stay then they should accept that the Falklands are Argentine.

Why? Because they are close to Argentina? OK the Channel Islands are now French. New Zealand now belongs to Australia. Many of the people on the Falklands have had generations of family living there, many are Chilean or of Chilean descent yet they voted yes too. Im not harking back for the days of empire and rightly so if countries want independence they deserve to have it, but it has to come from the people that live within that land.

Im not sure the percentages but the problem with Northern Ireland Sid is half the people want to be Irish and half want to be British, you must have seen many of the troubles, how the fuck do you sort that out? but when people of a country vote almost 100% to stay as they are there is very little argument, surely

Flash I can assure you I don't want to be part of a united Ireland and have held a British passport since I was 16, which I chose myself. I do consider myself Irish, but I ain't that fucking stupid not to know which side my bread is buttered.

Typical freeloading Nordy!

But to be honest the vast vast majority of people in the Republic don't want a united Oireland. We are financially fucked as it is (a big thank you to our retarded bankers, politicians, developers and private sector whoremongers) without inheriting the billions in debt it would take to try and keep the heavily subsidised Nordy economy going and then also the humongous fucking security bill. Fuck that. You Engerlish can keep them!

Ever hear Ewan MacColls song The Grocer? Some of you will like it, some of you wont. It's not offensive but it's obviously written by a man who wasn't very fond of her.

A debate involving students who were 2 years old when Thatcher was around.

No thanks.