CAN YOU STILL DEFEND WENGER????

[g88ner]

So I'll continue to ask the question, fair or otherwise!

As is your right to do so

I have to say, I think yesterday was a watershed for Wenger and his 'experiment'.

We now know that money was available, and in all honesty, I cannot think of a reason not to spend it. He can't be happy with his squad, surely? hell, even ManUre look to upgrade when possible, and they have a far better squad than us!

Wenger can no longer hide behind lack of funds, and it's time for his Arsenal team to step up to the plate and deliver. No more excuses.

[26may1989]

I have to say, I think yesterday was a watershed for Wenger and his 'experiment'.

We now know that money was available, and in all honesty, I cannot think of a reason not to spend it. He can't be happy with his squad, surely? hell, even ManUre look to upgrade when possible, and they have a far better squad than us!

Wenger can no longer hide behind lack of funds, and it's time for his Arsenal team to step up to the plate and deliver. No more excuses.

There can be no doubt, some money was available, enough to buy an established central midfielder. And Wenger is now answerable on that point, even though he had much less than his competitor managers to spend.

But we need to keep our focus on what is best for Arsenal, and that alone. Just as Wenger shouldn't be retained out of misplaced loyalty, he shouldn't be discarded out of anger, impatience and frustration.

[g88ner]

I have to say, I think yesterday was a watershed for Wenger and his 'experiment'.

We now know that money was available, and in all honesty, I cannot think of a reason not to spend it. He can't be happy with his squad, surely? hell, even ManUre look to upgrade when possible, and they have a far better squad than us!

Wenger can no longer hide behind lack of funds, and it's time for his Arsenal team to step up to the plate and deliver. No more excuses.

There can be no doubt, some money was available, enough to buy an established central midfielder. And Wenger is now answerable on that point, even though he had much less than his competitor managers to spend.

But we need to keep our focus on what is best for Arsenal, and that alone. Just as Wenger shouldn't be retained out of misplaced loyalty, he shouldn't be discarded out of anger, impatience and frustration.

I agree 26may1989.

The thing is - and maybe it's blind faith - but I still think we'll be ok. I think Diaby, Densilon and Song will step up to the plate, and in a few months time, we'll be talking about how we shouldn't have doubted Wenger.

But.. money was available. PHW said we had enough for "one experienced international player", and Friszman said that if Wenger asked for a £30m player, he could do it...so, by not spending the money available, he's put himself in a position where he now has to deliver.

I've patiently sat back and accepted that the stadium debt is obviously a huge burden on the club, and I've understood that we may have to wait until the sale of the Highbury flats before we can compete in the transfer market... but if the board is to be believed, then money is available... which can only mean that Wenger has chosen not to spend it... and for that reason, he has no place to hide. He should be held accountable if we fail to at least challenge for trophies. Seriously challenge.

When I say accountable, I don't mean sacked. Things haven't got to that stage yet... for from it. But I do question how far up the list of priorities trophies really are... and that - for me - is a concern.

[donaldo]

g88ner

When you say we will be ok it depends what you mean by ok.3rd or 4th place finish is that ok.Is that we are now saying is acceptible for the fans.Not when we are paying sky high prices and then not seeing our money invested in the team and not paying off the stadium debt.

[g88ner]

g88ner

When you say we will be ok it depends what you mean by ok.3rd or 4th place finish is that ok.Is that we are now saying is acceptible for the fans.Not when we are paying sky high prices and then not seeing our money invested in the team and not paying off the stadium debt.

But, that's the thing Donaldo.. I don't know if that's acceptable or not, because the club keep giving mixed messages. Should I be happy with 4th place, or not?

Personally, I don't get too caught up in winning trophies. All I ask is that the club do all they can - and put in all their effort - and if, having given all they can, that still isn't enough... then ok. They tried.

The problem is - as I said - is the mixed messages. PHW says we can afford an experienced international player, whilst Friszman said that if Wenger asked for a £30m player, he could do it... so that's a positive statement of intent by the board to back the manager in the transfer market.

But, we then have Wenger deciding not to spend (we've made a profit, in fact) and we have an article on Arsenal.com proclaiming that Eboue is becoming a Pass Master!!! that's not only hard to swallow, but it's insulting our intelligence.

I guess what I'm saying, is that if the club made it clear that we have no money and that we have to go down the route of youth development... then ok - I'm 100% behind you. But they don't. They mislead us into thinking we can compete in the transfer market, when the evidence suggests we either can't - or more worryingly - Wenger chooses not to.

I just want clarification from the club as to what is going on

When I'm going to the trouble - and expense - of travelling up to Blackburn to support the club, the least I feel I deserve is clarity. A clear message from the club... but instead we get half truths, and a muddled message.

It's not good enough.

[Magic Hat]

question, how do you know we aren't paying off our stadium debt donaldo?

[augie]

From my viewpoint wenger is at present as much to blame as the board and should suffer the same fate - p45. However if he decides to come out and admit what many have suspected all along (no money available) and ceases to stand in front of these *word censored* in the board like a human shield protecting them then I would support him 100% but as I said otherwise he should go down on the same sinking ship as them. You know how the saying goes.......

you stand by the board, you die by the board

[southampton gooner]

Whether or not their opinions or valid or not it is their honest opinions and should not allow themselves to be spoken down to just bacause someone else disagrees with them
FFS one member even took offence at being told to go support his local team after he starting the whole thing by telling fans to fcuk off and support citeeh or the chavs - you really couldnt make it up

So if someone tells me to go support Southampton am I supposed to not allow myself to be spoken down to, or take offence I'm not sure
The problem with me is it's black and white. We aint signed any players so if you think this is a mistake you are well within your rights to share that oppinion. But I can't belive that people want AW out if we don't win the league. So every year 1 manager stays and the manager of Chavs, Manure, City, Pool, Spuds, Villa etc etc should get the sack. They all spend more than us so their fans should expect to win it. ONLY ONE TEAM CAN WIN IT. So I can't get depressed about not winning it every year. I went to my first Arsenal game in 1985 and since then I think I have been lucky to see us win a few trophies. If we all had the same attitude as some on here I would be a masive depresant cos of all the years we didn't win anything. I did admit yesterday that telling people to fuck off and support City was wrong of me. But if all people are interested in is winning then they are glory hunters and maybe this aint the right team for them.

[Cockerill's chin]

If all people are interested in is winning?

When you take your seat at the AG what else interests you?

I want Arsenal to win. Come matchday that's all I'm interested in. I've supported Arsenal since the late 70's. I'm not going anywhere.

[REB]

this is what kills me

football is all about winning and nothing else, and as for been told if i dont like it to support someone else then thats been plain fucking stupid, we are all arsenal on here and all want to win

[dvbrisgooner1]

Sadly, I stayed up until 1am last night, absolutely convinced that there would be an announcement from Arsenal. Disappointed does not do it justice.

I know some on here believe the Board are lying, money-grabbing etc. I, personally, do not believe there is much wrong with those who run Arsenal FC. Fiszman's announcement of available funds could have been completely discounted by Wenger in the full knowledge that the fans would back him if the Board were found to be telling public lies.

In fact, the only lies I've heard in recent months have all come from the mouth of our much vaunted Manager, Arsene Wenger.

On the end of season DVD, Wenger announced that we had let in at least 11 goals too many last season and that he would make moves to address that - we have not signed a defender who is any different to the centre-halves we already had. On the contrary we have let Senderos (and Hoyte) leave, as well as Gilberto and Flamini - with all their defensive qualities.

After the FC Twente 1st leg Wenger announced that he would definitely be signing a defensive midfield player before the 2nd leg. This signing did not materialise.

On Friday Wenger stated at his press conference that he would look to bring in "one, maybe two" players. Not a single signing was made.

We have constantly heard George Graham's traditional refrain coming from Wenger's mouth - the players are not available. Utter, utter nonsense. Every player in the World is available if you stump up the cash.

Another Wengerism from last week "I look to bring in players only who will improve the squad". Get me a pen and paper and I'll make him a list. At least one midfield player who may have fitted the bill was known to be available at £18m - and he would certainly have improved the squad.

If, come May, Arsenal have not won a trophy (and I include the League Cup, although many won't accept just that) then Arsene Wenger will have to be sacked as Arsenal Manager. He has failed to deal with the, seemingly, obvious deficiencies in our Team when compared to Man Utd and Chelsea (I'm not concerned by Liverpool).

By the same token - if, come May, Arsenal are Premier League Champions then I will be dancing around the Emirates like everyone else and will accept that Arsene knows.

The pressure is really on him now, and I hope to God that he is right and I am as wrong as I could possibly be.

[Cockerill's chin]

I'd give the Wenger experiment two more seasons. If it doesn't work though, he would have tarnished the reputation he is currently feeding off.

[the playing mantis]

you dont supporta club just for the winning.........why else do you....thats the whole point of the sport of football to win. every player, manger, fan etc goes out there on a saturday with 1 aim, to win even if your teams shit, all you care about is winning. . so because fans only care about wiinning (which is the whoe point and aim of a football team) they are all gloryhunters?? very strange post indeed

i dont get depressed about arsenal not winning, im not someone whos day is ruined if the club lose, indeed i prefer to play cricket than watch or play football, but the fact that arsenal arnt as good as they could and should be annoys me greatly. why should i pay for a season ticket and not expect the team to really compete and aim to win??

the example of city,villa and sperz is garbage, historically there not clubs of a comparable success to arsenal, even before the wenger years, and dont expect or to win the league, they build towards a level that will enable them to, thats why when they dont win anything the mangers dont get the sack. arsenal are already at the level of competing for the title. we are one of only 4 teams who can realistically win the league, and get to the cl sfs, yet we dont on a regualar or consistent basis and havent won a significant trophy for years, and havent honestly looked like it. thats why i thinks wengers time is up if he doesnt win anything this season. if any of the other big 4 went 4 years without a major trophy would they not change the manger...im sure man u and chelski would.

finally the argument about who would replace wenger is a load of crap. so wengers the only decent manager is he???? who would replace mourinho??? who would replace hitzfeld, who would replace lippi? etc etc the are many top managers about who would be interested in the job, especially as the board say the is money available (which i now believe as its been verified by the AST). how long can this no one good enough to replace him argument hold water, does wenger have to go on till hes 80 because theres no one to replace him.......

[Sutch]

you dont supporta club just for the winning.........why else do you....thats the whole point of the sport of football to win. every player, manger, fan etc goes out there on a saturday with 1 aim, to win even if your teams shit, all you care about is winning. . so because fans only care about wiinning (which is the whoe point and aim of a football team) they are all gloryhunters?? very strange post indeed

i dont get depressed about arsenal not winning, im not someone whos day is ruined if the club lose, indeed i prefer to play cricket than watch or play football, but the fact that arsenal arnt as good as they could and should be annoys me greatly. why should i pay for a season ticket and not expect the team to really compete and aim to win??

the example of city,villa and sperz is garbage, historically there not clubs of a comparable success to arsenal, even before the wenger years, and dont expect or to win the league, they build towards a level that will enable them to, thats why when they dont win anything the mangers dont get the sack. arsenal are already at the level of competing for the title. we are one of only 4 teams who can realistically win the league, and get to the cl sfs, yet we dont on a regualar or consistent basis and havent won a significant trophy for years, and havent honestly looked like it. thats why i thinks wengers time is up if he doesnt win anything this season. if any of the other big 4 went 4 years without a major trophy would they not change the manger...im sure man u and chelski would.

finally the argument about who would replace wenger is a load of crap. so wengers the only decent manager is he???? who would replace mourinho??? who would replace hitzfeld, who would replace lippi? etc etc the are many top managers about who would be interested in the job, especially as the board say the is money available (which i now believe as its been verified by the AST). how long can this no one good enough to replace him argument hold water, does wenger have to go on till hes 80 because theres no one to replace him.......

so if arsenal lost to manure after they played so well you wouldnt be depressed????

i would be unless it was a very special day/time like Christmas time, birthday, wedding day etc.

[the playing mantis]

no i wouldnt.

obviously i would be bit peeed off for a while afterwards, but football isnt the be all and end all of life imo