As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
BT wrote:[Great post g88ner. My feeling that the problem was bigger than financial was highlighted in the F A Cup semi final v Chelsea when he dropped Arshavin and Song. Still annoys me now thinking about it. That was just a very odd decision which he justified as 'wanting the team to be prepared for the Champion's League without AA'.
And it was further exasperated by the way he gave up on the league against Wigan and Spurs with his squad selections at the end of last season, when the title was still possible.
And thats just team selection...that doesnt even cover the coaching issues or lack of tactical flexibility that clearly isn't implemented. Or the complete failure to ever throw on subs before 70 mins. Or the lack of set-piece practice. Or the continued investment in contracts for sub-standard players. None of which is finance-based.
I nearly brought up the decision to drop Arshavin against Chelsea; still annoys me and Wenger's reasoning was just ridiculous. He dropped him so the other players knew they could we without him .... ehich they didn't! and when you consider than Arshavin went on to score 4 goals at Anfield a few days later, it makes it look plain stupidity by Wenger.
And yes, the Wigan game was a disgrace.
Boomer wrote:The FA semi final was what I was hinting at earlier.
It still gets me now.
Tatically he's inept I feel.
But in terms of working with restraints and budgets is where he's best suited. Otherwise your looking at managers like Moyes!
Agreed - tactically inept, but good at working on a budget (even though I doubt he's spending ALL the money available - but that's just my guess, really)
Anyway, by refusing to take defence seriously, he's basically undermining everything good that he does. I just don't get the logic behind it anymore.
And if we don't improve defensively this season, then he should walk. Because a coach who cannot improve a team that concedes an average of over a goal a game for 2 years needs to go, in my opinion.
Agreed.
BTW I thought it was mind games (or maybe both) that Hiddink said that he knew Ashavin inside out no matter where he plays.
So cunningly Wenger drops him! Ha take that Gus!
Boomer wrote:
BTW I thought it was mind games (or maybe both) that Hiddink said that he knew Ashavin inside out no matter where he plays.
So cunningly Wenger drops him! Ha take that Gus!
No, it was brought up at the now infamous 'geriatric' Q&A that Wenger attended.
He was asked why he dropped Arshavin, and Wenger said it was because, in the lead up to the vital CL game vs. Manure, he wanted to show his players they could win without the cup-tied Arshavin.
I still think that's one of the worst excuses I've ever heard. We were playing Chelsea, at Wembley, in an FA Cup semi-final and he decides to drop the inform Arshavin to prove a point???? he's nuts!
Last edited by g88ner on Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Boomer wrote:
I wouldn't expect the club to say it was being tight. Never in a million years.
Jeeze even Barca would have a case for getting Cesc for lower! But the evidence is there. I had thread regarding the clubs PL spending included AW's. The last 6 years was shocking read.
Even Adecashwhore said "he was sold as we needed the money"[/b
Why in the last 6 or so years have we sold a major players when we didn't need to? Previoulsy he only released players if they were past there peek.
I guess I'm in the minority on this belief. Yes, I'd love another manager to come in and chuck out the trash (players) we have to watch. Be more tatical and make needed signings.
I just think we'll sadly hold Wenger accountable for towing a company line.
I don't doubt there is a lot of financial murkiness going on there but selling your best assets, which could bring you a better chance of success and therefore more money seems short-sighted and is making this club a joke. Our value as a club is actually lessening as we strip it of its most valuable assets even if the debts are being paid off. As a result, no trophies equals less merchandising, tv rights, ticket purchasing, sponsorship deals, ability to attract other players...
If Wenger is being told to prematurely sell players to finance the loans, thats scandelous. More likely is that players see their future elsewhere because they can't win things here. Before it wasnt a case of wenger choosing not to sell, but the players being happy while they won stuff. Chelsea raised the stakes, players realised they could have the same success AND more money, Arsenal couldnt compete. Not renewing or extending the contracts of Pires, Diarra, Gilberto, Flamini, Gallas etc but choosing to do it for Almunia, Flappy, Silvestre...is just weird and inconsistent.
Lastly, if this is the case, why are we being so staunch over Fabregas? Is it just because Barca haven't got the money or is it because the financial repercussions in doing so will outweigh passing up on £30/40 mill? Possibly our prudishness in the past few years is our trump card with this deal but also, with less people renewing their season tickets, selling Cesc would be the final nail in the coffin.
Boomer wrote]:
I wouldn't expect the club to say it was being tight. Never in a million years.
Jeeze even Barca would have a case for getting Cesc for lower! But the evidence is there. I had thread regarding the clubs PL spending included AW's. The last 6 years was shocking read.
Even Adecashwhore said "he was sold as we needed the money"
Why in the last 6 or so years have we sold a major players when we didn't need to? Previoulsy he only released players if they were past there peek.
I guess I'm in the minority on this belief. Yes, I'd love another manager to come in and chuck out the trash (players) we have to watch. Be more tatical and make needed signings.
I just think we'll sadly hold Wenger accountable for towing a company line.
I don't doubt there is a lot of financial murkiness going on there but selling your best assets, which could bring you a better chance of success and therefore more money seems short-sighted and is making this club a joke. Our value as a club is actually lessening as we strip it of its most valuable assets even if the debts are being paid off. As a result, no trophies equals less merchandising, tv rights, ticket purchasing, sponsorship deals, ability to attract other players...
If Wenger is being told to prematurely sell players to finance the loans, thats scandelous. More likely is that players see their future elsewhere because they can't win things here. Before it wasnt a case of wenger choosing not to sell, but the players being happy while they won stuff. Chelsea raised the stakes, players realised they could have the same success AND more money, Arsenal couldnt compete. Not renewing or extending the contracts of Pires, Diarra, Gilberto, Flamini, Gallas etc but choosing to do it for Almunia, Flappy, Silvestre...is just weird and inconsistent.
Lastly, if this is the case, why are we being so staunch over Fabregas? Is it just because Barca haven't got the money or is it because the financial repercussions in doing so will outweigh passing up on £30/40 mill? Possibly our prudishness in the past few years is our trump card with this deal but also, with less people renewing their season tickets, selling Cesc would be the final nail in the coffin.
Agreed, but looking at his recent fee's it seems more he's lining his own tranfer kitty
As far Cesc, you might be right.
Also partly it might be that as Barca don't meet AW value of Cesc. Most of the players that Wenger has sold have been older and past their peek but in Cesc this is a player with he's best days ahead of him.
How knows maybe the financial tide is turning!
We get our first sponsor deal next year!
The thing I think people often miss in the whole Wenger/board debate is the power dynamics between the two. For all but the most ridiculous thing (asking a Man City style spending spree) if Wenger opposed something the board were doing strongly and even in extreme case threatened to walk does anyone seriously think the board would stand up to him?
The board think he is perfect so whatever he wants he gets and if he didn't like it he could easily force a degree of change on them. The truth is he hasn't. I think it began with the stadium move, Wenger agreed with it and knew that for a few years (maybe until the revenues of the new stadium kicked in) things would be tight, over-thought things to the point of creating this 'project' and is now too stubborn to end it now he doesn't need to and the board are too in awe of him to challenge him over it.
Remember this - the board let Arsene choose the CEO. If he has that much power surely it would also be within his power to get more funds. And that leaves aside his mistakes not involving money - move from giants to midgets, creating a leaky defence and ultimately relying on an all round not good enough squad.
djhdjh wrote:The thing I think people often miss in the whole Wenger/board debate is the power dynamics between the two. For all but the most ridiculous thing (asking a Man City style spending spree) if Wenger opposed something the board were doing strongly and even in extreme case threatened to walk does anyone seriously think the board would stand up to him?
The board think he is perfect so whatever he wants he gets and if he didn't like it he could easily force a degree of change on them. The truth is he hasn't. I think it began with the stadium move, Wenger agreed with it and knew that for a few years (maybe until the revenues of the new stadium kicked in) things would be tight, over-thought things to the point of creating this 'project' and is now too stubborn to end it now he doesn't need to and the board are too in awe of him to challenge him over it.
Remember this - the board let Arsene choose the CEO. If he has that much power surely it would also be within his power to get more funds. And that leaves aside his mistakes not involving money - move from giants to midgets, creating a leaky defence and ultimately relying on an all round not good enough squad.
Post of the day!
Like you i cant get over the fact a certain amount of funds are not available for the right players. Sad thing is the right players are available right now.
and Wenger's reasoning was just ridiculous. He dropped him so the other players knew they could we without him
.... ehich they didn't!
and when you consider than Arshavin went on to score 4 goals at Anfield a few days later, it makes it look plain stupidity by Wenger.
- but that's just my guess, really)
