The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

[nut flush gooner]

Yes Indeed AllGuns
I'll all day long with anyone who makes poor judgements about another person or jumps to hasty and stupid conclusions about same.
You can always disagree with another persons opinion without suggesting that they are thick and that you are clever.

Good for you!...They don't like it up em Capt Manwaring!....

You bring it on yourself tbh the brexit video is a classic example. Keep punching away, as an older person you don't like people who disagree with you or prove you wrong. When did I ever say you was thick (although you do need to be thick skinned though old boy to take part in this debate).

£/$ is now $1.22 watch the news, theres loads of stuff on how a weak currency screws our economy. Ready for that inflation next year?

That is an ageist comment.

It's also ageist to vote Brexit, knowing you won't be around to suffer the consequences in the generations to come when as a baby boomer you've got it as good as it gets ;0).

[OneBardGooner]

Yes Indeed AllGuns
I'll all day long with anyone who makes poor judgements about another person or jumps to hasty and stupid conclusions about same.
You can always disagree with another persons opinion without suggesting that they are thick and that you are clever.

Good for you!...They don't like it up em Capt Manwaring!....

You bring it on yourself tbh the brexit video is a classic example. Keep punching away, as an older person you don't like people who disagree with you or prove you wrong. When did I ever say you was thick (although you do need to be thick skinned though old boy to take part in this debate).

£/$ is now $1.22 watch the news, theres loads of stuff on how a weak currency screws our economy. Ready for that inflation next year?

That is an ageist comment.

It's also ageist to vote Brexit, knowing you won't be around to suffer the consequences in the generations to come when as a baby boomer you've got it as good as it gets ;0).

That is an erroneous comment - I know of a number of young people (under 25 yrs of age) who voted to leave the EU - Quite a few actually.

[nut flush gooner]

Good for you!...They don't like it up em Capt Manwaring!....

You bring it on yourself tbh the brexit video is a classic example. Keep punching away, as an older person you don't like people who disagree with you or prove you wrong. When did I ever say you was thick (although you do need to be thick skinned though old boy to take part in this debate).

£/$ is now $1.22 watch the news, theres loads of stuff on how a weak currency screws our economy. Ready for that inflation next year?

That is an ageist comment.

It's also ageist to vote Brexit, knowing you won't be around to suffer the consequences in the generations to come when as a baby boomer you've got it as good as it gets ;0).

That is an erroneous comment - I know of a number of young people (under 25 yrs of age) who voted to leave the EU - Quite a few actually.

Sample size, location, education/vocation?

I think if you want to analyse it properly look at a study like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... te-was-won

Or read an article like this :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... main-in-eu

[olgitgooner]

Prior to voting in the referendum I became very interested in the arguments for Leave and Remain. I have never taken such an interest in politics before.
I believe that people should not vote without listening to both sides of the argument. As I did.
Here's a challenge to the Remain voters. If you are not prepared to spend an hour watching the following link, then I suggest your minds are too closed to arrive at a balanced opinion as to whether the EU is a good or bad institution for the modern world.


https://youtu.be/eYqzcqDtL3k

Haha, that's just made my day. So you based your decision on a video one hour long that explicitly has a bias towards the argument for leaving the EU!!!

I am not going to watch the video in its entirety, but there is a section about Switzerland being outside the EU and thriving. I will tell you why that is aside from having some of the best skiing/winter sports resorts in the world, they have a huge financial services industry. So what are we doing to our Financial Services industry? I will tell you we are creating a situation where the vultures in Paris, Frankfurt hell even Dublin are looking for a slice of the cake for which we have had the largest slice in Europe for decades.

The difference between Switzerland and the UK is they are a tax haven, many of the worlds richest people/businesses park their cash very quietly to avoid paying tax. Do you think the British government/people would be happy to operate in a similar way? People already have a hissy fit when the likes of Apple pay next to no tax in Ireland. More importantly we need to be a tax generative country to pay for our large public sector expenses.

If your decision was truly based on a 1 hour you tube video, then all I can say is you haven't even come close to considering all the facts.

I have said this before, I am a Tory and a massive Euro sceptic, I don't like our laws being dictated to from Brussels. However, I had to research this subject over a number of months and it was clear to me that despite the freedom we will have from EU legislation, the positives of staying in the EU far outweighed the negatives. I have given umpteen reasons to stay in the EU, and my concerns about the implications for this country both before and after the referendum.

So you were prepared to "research the subject over a period of months" but not prepared to watch one single hour of video???!!!!

I watched hours and hours of presentation from both sides of the argument. Much of it misrepresentation of fact. Much of it total drivel. Do not presume to say that I am uninformed. Or that my opinion is based on one single hour of presentation. Or that that I have not "considered all the facts". You are insulting my fucking intelligence.

Perhaps you are smarter than me and can digest information quicker, BUT are you surprised that we came to the conclusion that you just watched this video and made your decision. Posting the video hardly emphasises that you watched material that was broadly neutral does it?

Well actually I AM surprised that you came to the conclusion that I just watched this video and then made my decision. What a ridiculous assumption.

Also posting the video does NOT in any way suggest that I have not watched a large amount of "neutral" material. Another ridiculous assumption.

Again, you are insulting my intelligence.

[OneBardGooner]

You bring it on yourself tbh the brexit video is a classic example. Keep punching away, as an older person you don't like people who disagree with you or prove you wrong. When did I ever say you was thick (although you do need to be thick skinned though old boy to take part in this debate).

£/$ is now $1.22 watch the news, theres loads of stuff on how a weak currency screws our economy. Ready for that inflation next year?

That is an ageist comment.

It's also ageist to vote Brexit, knowing you won't be around to suffer the consequences in the generations to come when as a baby boomer you've got it as good as it gets ;0).

That is an erroneous comment - I know of a number of young people (under 25 yrs of age) who voted to leave the EU - Quite a few actually.

Sample size, location, education/vocation?

I think if you want to analyse it properly look at a study like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... te-was-won

Or read an article like this :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... main-in-eu

You still haven't 'cottoned on' have you, first you make a comment that is 'ageist' then rather than see that for what it is within the context of hat followed in that statement - By implication you are not only making assumptions yet again, but implying that those who were old/er and voted to leave did so as a purely selfish act.

From what I can see there's a whole lot of assuming going on.

And we all (well most of us) know what happens when people make assumptions - they get things spectacularly wrong.

[Henry Norris 1913]

the problem with a lot of the remain voters is that they latch onto the vague demographics and use it as a weapon to insult voters they disagree with. they don't like old people, working class people, they don't like people who haven't got degrees, blah blah

it's patronising, arrogant and quite out of touch. look at the number of people who actually voted by age range, you will see a lot of apathy from the 18-24 year old range, and a lot of interest from those 60 and above. pretty much like any other election then? if the remainers want to use age as a stick to beat people with, why not start and look at why so many young people never show any interest in voting, some of those that did had less life experience to go on anyway....

maybe if young people have been sold down the river from the older lot then they should have pulled their finger out and voted for their future in the first place instead of whinging about it afterwards.

[flash gunner]

the problem with a lot of the remain voters is that they latch onto the vague demographics and use it as a weapon to insult voters they disagree with. they don't like old people, working class people, they don't like people who haven't got degrees, blah blah

it's patronising, arrogant and quite out of touch. look at the number of people who actually voted by age range, you will see a lot of apathy from the 18-24 year old range, and a lot of interest from those 60 and above. pretty much like any other election then? if the remainers want to use age as a stick to beat people with, why not start and look at why so many young people never show any interest in voting, some of those that did had less life experience to go on anyway....

maybe if young people have been sold down the river from the older lot then they should have pulled their finger out and voted for their future in the first place instead of whinging about it afterwards.

Well said

[nut flush gooner]

That is an ageist comment.

It's also ageist to vote Brexit, knowing you won't be around to suffer the consequences in the generations to come when as a baby boomer you've got it as good as it gets ;0).

That is an erroneous comment - I know of a number of young people (under 25 yrs of age) who voted to leave the EU - Quite a few actually.

Sample size, location, education/vocation?

I think if you want to analyse it properly look at a study like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... te-was-won

Or read an article like this :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... main-in-eu

You still haven't 'cottoned on' have you, first you make a comment that is 'ageist' then rather than see that for what it is within the context of hat followed in that statement - By implication you are not only making assumptions yet again, but implying that those who were old/er and voted to leave did so as a purely selfish act.

From what I can see there's a whole lot of assuming going on.

And we all (well most of us) know what happens when people make assumptions - they get things spectacularly wrong.

I am not assuming anything, read this quote from the WSJ the day after the vote:

"Seldom has the United Kingdom looked less united: London and Scotland voted to stay in the EU, Wales and the English shires voted to get out. (Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has already called a fresh vote on secession “highly likely.”) Some 70% of university graduates were in favor of the EU; an equally disproportionate 68% of those who hadn’t finished high school were against it. Londoners and those under age 30 were strongly for Remain; the northern English and those over 60 were strongly for Leave. An astonishing 70% of the skilled working class supported Brexit."

Retarded American spelling aside, this tells it how it is. This is what gets me with the people in this country the facts are there, a lot of people made misinformed decisions, as did a lot of prejudiced people. We are not talking a few thousand here.

Older people where extremely selfish in voting for Brexit, and it was by and large the Northern working class including the over 60s that swung the vote in favour of leave. Over a number of years I got to know a lot of people from Sunderland, and boy are some of these people closet racists. At football I have heard Stoke and Hull fans say out loud are there any white Arsenal fans........

If that is replicated across the North/North East then why is it an unreasonable statement to make that older people have been extremely selfish because when it came to casting that vote, not a lot of thought was put into it.

I can see why you're annoyed but see how it feels to be labelled in a certain group, minority groups have had to put up with it for Centuries. There are of course older people that made a measured decision some may have been in the categories I have described, but the facts categorically show they are the exception rather than the rule.

[nut flush gooner]

the problem with a lot of the remain voters is that they latch onto the vague demographics and use it as a weapon to insult voters they disagree with. they don't like old people, working class people, they don't like people who haven't got degrees, blah blah

it's patronising, arrogant and quite out of touch. look at the number of people who actually voted by age range, you will see a lot of apathy from the 18-24 year old range, and a lot of interest from those 60 and above. pretty much like any other election then? if the remainers want to use age as a stick to beat people with, why not start and look at why so many young people never show any interest in voting, some of those that did had less life experience to go on anyway....

maybe if young people have been sold down the river from the older lot then they should have pulled their finger out and voted for their future in the first place instead of whinging about it afterwards.

What vague demographics LOL. We live in an age of technology where in depth data is easily available for most things.

You cannot ignore stats! Elections and referendums are classic examples of where information is available to the nth degree. I am sure they could if they wanted produce a stat for the average shoe size of brexit voters.

[northbank123]

Hardly less United than ever when you're looking at constituent countries. Tories have returned 4 MPs in 5 elections in Scotland and they haven't won a third of the seats there since the 50s. Their electoral performance in Wales is similarly shocking. Yet these countries will have been living under Tory rule for 28 of the past 41 years by 2020.

You can interpret statistics however you want and just as lambasting old people for generally voting leave because this supposedly shows that they don't care about the country's future, you could equally interpret the correlation between a university education and voting remain as suggesting that this is because the EU benefits the better-off.

I'm just making a point and not saying I agree with that. Although I know a truckload of people my age who have spent six weeks interrailing around Europe or a year dossing around at university in Prague or whatever and let's just say that none of them came from humble backgrounds.

[GranadaJoe]

the problem with a lot of the remain voters is that they latch onto the vague demographics and use it as a weapon to insult voters they disagree with. they don't like old people, working class people, they don't like people who haven't got degrees, blah blah

it's patronising, arrogant and quite out of touch. look at the number of people who actually voted by age range, you will see a lot of apathy from the 18-24 year old range, and a lot of interest from those 60 and above. pretty much like any other election then? if the remainers want to use age as a stick to beat people with, why not start and look at why so many young people never show any interest in voting, some of those that did had less life experience to go on anyway....

maybe if young people have been sold down the river from the older lot then they should have pulled their finger out and voted for their future in the first place instead of whinging about it afterwards.

What vague demographics LOL. We live in an age of technology where in depth data is easily available for most things.

You cannot ignore stats! Elections and referendums are classic examples of where information is available to the nth degree. I am sure they could if they wanted produce a stat for the average shoe size of brexit voters.

You shouldn't ignore stats, but you shouldn't rely on them either.
The stats you quote show which demographic groups voted which way. They say nothing about why. You have added the reasons, based on your individual interpretation.

[flash gunner]

DB10 loves stats

If you're going to believe stats alone then Denilson was the best passer of a ball Arsenal have EVER had. The same stat can be used many different ways

[nut flush gooner]

Hardly less United than ever when you're looking at constituent countries. Tories have returned 4 MPs in 5 elections in Scotland and they haven't won a third of the seats there since the 50s. Their electoral performance in Wales is similarly shocking. Yet these countries will have been living under Tory rule for 28 of the past 41 years by 2020.

You can interpret statistics however you want and just as lambasting old people for generally voting leave because this supposedly shows that they don't care about the country's future, you could equally interpret the correlation between a university education and voting remain as suggesting that this is because the EU benefits the better-off.

I'm just making a point and not saying I agree with that. Although I know a truckload of people my age who have spent six weeks interrailing around Europe or a year dossing around at university in Prague or whatever and let's just say that none of them came from humble backgrounds.

It is the north of England that I am focusing on and made some quite subjective comments. You can lambast people, it doesn't matter what age they are if they didn't make a measured informed decision on their vote. This comes up time and time again on this thread. People are getting too precious about it. The stats never lie in football just like they don't in politics.

If a stat suggests large swathes of the north, predominantly working classes and older people voted brexit. It is what it says on the tin. You can interpret it umpteen ways but it comes back to exactly the same thing.

[flash gunner]

Hardly less United than ever when you're looking at constituent countries. Tories have returned 4 MPs in 5 elections in Scotland and they haven't won a third of the seats there since the 50s. Their electoral performance in Wales is similarly shocking. Yet these countries will have been living under Tory rule for 28 of the past 41 years by 2020.

You can interpret statistics however you want and just as lambasting old people for generally voting leave because this supposedly shows that they don't care about the country's future, you could equally interpret the correlation between a university education and voting remain as suggesting that this is because the EU benefits the better-off.

I'm just making a point and not saying I agree with that. Although I know a truckload of people my age who have spent six weeks interrailing around Europe or a year dossing around at university in Prague or whatever and let's just say that none of them came from humble backgrounds.

It is the north of England that I am focusing on and made some quite subjective comments. You can lambast people, it doesn't matter what age they are if they didn't make a measured informed decision on their vote. This comes up time and time again on this thread. People are getting too precious about it. The stats never lie in football just like they don't in politics.

If a stat suggests large swathes of the north, predominantly working classes and older people voted brexit. It is what it says on the tin. You can interpret it umpteen ways but it comes back to exactly the same thing.

So Denilson IS the best passer of the ball ever at Arsenal?

[OneBardGooner]

Just goes to prove that it is how (and by whom and for what purpose) any statistical data is interpreted, applied and used.


The whinging and moaning of those who wished to remain in the EU is reminiscent of the ickle boy who used to say ' it's my ball and if we don't play by my rules I'm taking my ball home'