THE WENGER THREAD

[augie]

Aha - the moral high ground is it?? An old but highly effective tactic.

And if you've got a private line to Shearer, Gullit, Savage or Lineker then give me their numbers.

What moral high ground?

Lineker tweets a lot.

Get on Twitter and Tweet to him.
He will see it.

Same with any other current or ex-player on there.

Use all the social media sites you can possibly think of.
Write to the club, over and over again.
Protests, banners, placards, leaflets, radio phone-ins.
Set up your own blog, send links to it to everyone you can think of.
Put a clip of yourself on youtube.
Make a Vine, send it viral.

If you or Muzz think that you are muted by class background or inability to write degree level English then you are not living in 2014.

Quartz surely a guy of your undoubted intelligence can acknowledge that social media can only do so much and will NEVER get any manager sacked ? Haven't we also moaned for years about the fact that the media are afraid to come out strongly and criticise le cock ? Do you think that a big public show of anger and frustration from fans might make them less hesitant to question/slate wenker ? As a society we cannot dismiss people venting on sites like this and label them keyboard warriors, and yet also criticise those who are willing to take a stand publicly

[Dan_85]

I'm reading a lot on Twitter (mostly from journos) that us fans should be giving Wenger "criticism, not abuse". And just how is that possible? What forums or communication channels do we have to do that? Those 5 seconds on a station platform is the closest that 99.9% of fans can get to the inner workings of the club these days. And what can you do in those 5 seconds? You sure as fuck can't sit him down for a polite chat and tell him "Arsene old boy, I really think you should have signed a replacement for Vermaelen and a world class DM instead of swanning off to meet the pope in August etc etc etc". Fans have that miniscule window to get their point across and let him know that they're not happy. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the crass, personal insults, there's not much more than can be done in that amount of time other than a short, sharp chorus of boos and jeers.

You want fans to put their feelings across in a calm, structured and cohesive manner? Invite them to the AGM then, and stop fucking stage-managing it in the way that you do these days...

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

Class background???

The last time I heard that was an utterance by Lord Grantham, reminding an underling of their place in society whilst my wife was falling asleep in front of Downton Abbey.

Trust me mate, I can communicate with anybody, verbally or spoken, but Wenger has gone way, way beyond that. I don't (and never have) tweet(ed) : radio phone-ins have their own agenda and cut you off / belittle you when it suits them: I restrict my time on You Tube to watching videos of trains with my 6 year old son and writing to the Club is pointless.

I applaud the crass and aggressive feedback given to Wenger at Stoke Station and I hope it continues.

Apologies for the simmering anger / resentment but Wenger and Kroenke have taken over the Club that I have loved since I was a child - and fucking ruined it!!!!!!!

[gp543]

Arsene Wenger, Adolf Hitler and Saddam Husain in the same conversation some people really have no clue!

I know. When did Adolph and Saddam ever find themselves 3 down to Stoke at half-time?

Judge them in May, or in Hitler's case Springtime.

I've been waiting for a relevant moment to post this on this forum. Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-q4SPOy4Ck

MiB is a football podcast from America, for those not familiar.

[QuartzGooner]

Augie

I do criticise people having a go at Wenger in that way.

It is spiteful.

Believe me, I wanted Wenger gone from the moment we lost the League Cup Final against Birmingham in February 2011, I was frustrated before then, but at the final whistle I knew Wenger's ability was over.

The mainstream media is now synonymous with social media...they each take their lead from each other and hyperlink to each other...it's all one big mish-mash of "Follow Link To See Outrageous Event" and "Click Here To Find Out About Shock New Signing".

Look at Claude and Ty.

Who had heard of them this time last year outside of their immediate circle of friends and workmates?

Their are now virtually national celebrities amongst football fans from many teams.

I have never said that social media alone is the way forward, my plan that went to Woots, Mikey, Dan, US Martin and a couple of others always said that the online stuff was a precursor to well organised marches and protests outside and in the stadium, before, during and after games, plus at the shareholders AGM, which in turn would be well publicised to every journalist we could find and then in turn used to organise more public protests.

And in the pocket too - some have given up their tickets but to me that is not the full answer as being a fan is not like being a customer of the cinema...a team is part of one's identity and family and is not easily jettisoned.

But a refusal to buy any merchandise, food or drink is viable.

[Block93]

Presumably, like me, the vast majority of the contributors to this forum value an Arsenal win above all else, and though 4th place and a possible FA Cup this season might not seem like success, you wouldn't kick it out of bed, as they say. The league has gone, and Champions League is looking a bit unlikely, but at least we are still in them.

The common theme here seems to be that Wenger won't go until he's ready, and until you galvanise support from a huge number of supporters at a game, then the sentiments from this forum will just dissipate into the ether. You are not going to get that level of support from the ground, because at £1300 for an average ticket, there are probably more who go to a game as a good day out, as a lot of real fans have been priced out. Take a look at the empty seats in Club Level every game, those cost about £3000 per year I think, and the owners can't even be bothered to flog them on the ticket exchange. Do you see the problem?

I appreciate the pent-up frustration that this forum enables, but it I can't see it getting to the next level. I will go to the Newcastle game and hope for 3 points as it is a massive game now Man U seem to be getting stronger, and that for me is the be all and end all of next Saturday. Wenger isn't going to walk because of a banner, or a forum, or anything else bar the board telling him to pack his bags, or until he is ready himself. I think his time is up, but that's a separate issue from the games. I sincerely believe he'll punt some big money into the market in January, and stand or fall by results in the second half of the season. And who knows? I would always prefer a manager who makes his own decisions and is not swayed by popular opinion. I think he will walk at the end of the season if it doesn't work out. He might have made some mistakes, but he still retains some integrity, however it might appear at times.

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the crass, personal insults, there's not much more than can be done in that amount of time other than a short, sharp chorus of boos and jeers.

You want fans to put their feelings across in a calm, structured and cohesive manner? Invite them to the AGM then, and stop fucking stage-managing it in the way that you do these days...

Spot on mate!!!! Nail on the head! The AGM summed up how Wenger & co want to spin and control every aspect of our "interest in their affairs".

I don't usually condone being rude or aggressive but those guys at Stoke Station achieved more in 10 seconds than we have in 5 fucking years.

[officepest]

I appreciate the pent-up frustration that this forum enables, but it I can't see it getting to the next level. I will go to the Newcastle game and hope for 3 points as it is a massive game now Man U seem to be getting stronger, and that for me is the be all and end all of next Saturday. Wenger isn't going to walk because of a banner, or a forum, or anything else bar the board telling him to pack his bags, or until he is ready himself. I think his time is up, but that's a separate issue from the games. I sincerely believe he'll punt some big money into the market in January, and stand or fall by results in the second half of the season. And who knows? I would always prefer a manager who makes his own decisions and is not swayed by popular opinion. I think he will walk at the end of the season if it doesn't work out. He might have made some mistakes, but he still retains some integrity, however it might appear at times.

History teaches us otherwise.

[SteveO 35]

What looks like a tiny group of pissed up fellas shout at WENGER and it's headline news......thank god for the digital age

It's hardly like the shit the Mickeys have dished out to their managers, or Blackburn to Kean, or Villa to O'Dreary. What would they do if thousands of people openly abused the manager as those clubs did? Get out of our club.....tut tut, naughty naughty.

[GoonerMuzz]

Simple question: if social media is so all powerful, can someone name a single instance in recent memory when a post from a forum, a tweet from a single fan or likewise has actually been taken up in the mainstream media and has led to any sort of meaningful debate where it will be noticed outside of niche forums like this.

Sorry Quartz but you are coming over as condescending and arrogant yourself. I have read many forums recently, seen tweets from many fans on both side of the argument however i have as yet to see a single mainstream media outlet take on the mantle of supporting the fans opinions.

They are quite happy to play it up as ungrateful troublemakers or foolish sheep, they are quite happy to take sly digs at the club over the situation the team is in but when it comes to really asking the difficult questions they very quickly back out beyond a few snide comments.

(This situation is not just limited to us as a team by the way)

If mainstream media were that interested in the fan opinions they would be holding open debate about, really getting into the meat of the issue, quite simply they don't care any more than the manager and the board about fan feeling.

Social media is no where near the voice of the people it's made out to be by some. I'd take a bet that very few if any members of staff of AFC ever come on here or many other of the fan forums, considering the number there are i'd seriously doubt that any member of the mainstream media take more than a passing interest in them either because there is nothing on here or other forums that has not been said many times over the past few years.

On a side note on social media, i don't know about anyone else but to me there has been a severe drop off in our players using twitter etc recently, and what is being said is very tailored. I wonder if this has been instituted by the club to prevent any dissenting opinions getting out and also to prevent potential abuse.

EDIT: And as if by magic to make me eat my words just saw this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/articl ... paign=1490

[QuartzGooner]

Class background???

The last time I heard that was an utterance by Lord Grantham, reminding an underling of their place in society whilst my wife was falling asleep in front of Downton Abbey.

I mentioned Class Background because of this, which you quoted against me -

Wenger is a highly educated individual, easily able to disguise his sneering and arrogant attitude to the fans in hyperbole. Many of our fans and i include myself here are less educated and from a much more working class background. We also do not have the advantage of being able to get our views across in the media which he is more than able to do at every opportunity.

In all my time on those Forum I have never seen something so invalid a reason for not protesting as saying one is from the Working Class.

Just because you Jumpers have not used Twitter or Youtube, does not mean that you cannot start using them or the loads of other social media means of communication.

Journalists love social media, it gives them a great source of stores without the need to leave the office or use petty to cash to buy drinks for contacts.

Writing to the club is not pointless if thousands write in during the same week, surface mail, all with their names and season ticket numbers, protesting about the standard of football we have to see.
All letters to Kroenke, second week of January after the temp Post Office workers have finished their stints.

And did you write to the club telling them why you gave up you ticket?
I would have.

[QuartzGooner]

Simple question: if social media is so all powerful, can someone name a single instance in recent memory when a post from a forum, a tweet from a single fan or likewise has actually been taken up in the mainstream media and has led to any sort of meaningful debate where it will be noticed outside of niche forums like this.

All the time.
Henry Winter in The Telegraph this past week mentioned the poll on this Forum about when Wenger should leave the club.

Sorry Quartz but you are coming over as condescending and arrogant yourself.

Wouldn't be the first time

So be it.
I am confident in my writing ability, some see this as arrogance.
I fight my corner and it antagonises others, but that is what this place is for eh?

I have been a fan since the Seventies, have no fear of discussing Arsenal with anyone.
And I would not be cowed by Wenger.
I do not claim to know as much about football as him, I never played professionally, but I have every means of eloquence to tell him what is not working with the team and so does the rest of the Forum!

But why belittle yourself by saying you are not educated to Wenger's level?
I do not get it at all?
He has an economics degree.
But for all those years of study cannot fix our defence!

He is intelligent and usually a considered man, but I honestly believe he has lost the basics of what made him a success, is hurting badly and so lashes out.

You can clearly write well.
There is nothing stopping you from utilising social media to the fullest.
And it should be pointed out that Wenger often uses French grammatical sentence structure when speaking English, he is not the perfect example of verbosity.

The national media write criticising Wenger a lot, they are not scared to do so.

But obviously they're not going to use the language seen on Forums.

I'd take a bet that very few if any members of staff of AFC ever come on here , considering the number there are i'd seriously doubt that any member of the mainstream media take more than a passing interest in them

The club's staff come on here, they read the Forum and others.

The mainstream media take their lead from Forums so many times, some would say it is lazy journalism but they can at least claim they are saying what the fans are saying.

For instance, a few years back Spudmasher published a photo of a tranny that looked like John Terry.
Within hours The Sun had picked it up (if you'll pardon the pun) and published it, though did not give us credit.

[GoonerMuzz]

Another type of protest that i see a lot of people touting is season tickets being given up. Although i admire in a strange way those who have done so i think you're mad

Many fans have had season tickets for decades, to give it up is asking a lot and i believe anyone who does so if they can still afford it is protesting in the wrong way. But beyond that is the point that if you give it up how long would you realistically have to wait to get it back?

There are fans out there who would rather give up a limb than their season ticket to the club they love, so what exactly are they supposed to do?

The fans are the life's blood of a club but in all honesty i will never be convinced that giving up the ticket for any major club will instigate change and even if it did what if the new manger is excellent or ticket prices suddenly fall, you don't benefit from your sacrifice. Nowadays there are just too many people waiting on the list, even 1000 fans surrendering those tickets is a drop in the ocean.

[Clash]

No doubt that'll be the last time Wenger allows himself to be in a position to have to walk past the great unwashed after a game.

Expect chartered flights to away games from now in (just like they did when they were beaten at fucking Norwich a couple of years back).

[QuartzGooner]

No doubt that'll be the last time Wenger allows himself to be in a position to have to walk past the great unwashed after a game.

Expect chartered flights to away games from now in (just like the club did after the defeat a fucking Norwich a couple if years back).

A few years back I was on the plane with Wenger and the players after an overseas game.
At the time you could do that by buying a pricey ticket and at the time I had cash.

After the game there was a mix-up at the airport, and Wenger and the players boarded first and sat at the front of the plane, instead of the fans boarding first and going to the back, which would keep them away from the players.

The club officials were having a fit!

I laughed.

So we got on and Wenger was sitting there quietly, Pat Rice was smiling and saying hi to the fans, Gallas went out of his way to shake the hand of every fan who passed, Walcott was nodding to the fans and shaking hands too, Keith Edelman was in the aisle talking to fans without any cares.

There was no harm done, but it showed me how a corporate bubble was starting to set up around the club, and how it was all so uneccesary.