ARSENE OUT ?
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Cesc is God
- Posts: 2650
- Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:59 pm
- Location: Bognor Regis
- Contact:
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tinpot lane
- Posts: 2713
- Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:10 pm
- Location: Islington innit!
The more you look at this the more DISASTEROUS Dein's departure becomes.
He was the one Board member who could have taken Wenger to one side and made him see the writing on the wall. The others are obviously either incapable or unwilling - or both.
Point is, that it's obvious what is wrong with the squad; no leadership, no fight, no muscle; and deficiencies in central defence and central midfield.
For the 'Wenger must stay brigade' - answer me this :-
What time scale is required for AW to admit the above and act on it ?
One year ? Two years ? Five years ? Ten years ?
He had all this closed season gone to act and he sat on his hands and did zilch. Think about it ...!
He was the one Board member who could have taken Wenger to one side and made him see the writing on the wall. The others are obviously either incapable or unwilling - or both.
Point is, that it's obvious what is wrong with the squad; no leadership, no fight, no muscle; and deficiencies in central defence and central midfield.
For the 'Wenger must stay brigade' - answer me this :-
What time scale is required for AW to admit the above and act on it ?
One year ? Two years ? Five years ? Ten years ?
He had all this closed season gone to act and he sat on his hands and did zilch. Think about it ...!
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QuartzGooner
- Posts: 14474
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 pm
- Location: London
As I have said before on here, I think that Wenger has privately written off the team until the 2010-2011 season, but will never publically admit it.Rob wrote:
What time scale is required for AW to admit the above and act on it ?
One year ? Two years ? Five years ? Ten years ?
He had all this closed season gone to act and he sat on his hands and did zilch. Think about it ...!
But without improvement, he has a 60/40 chance of fans forcing him out before then.
If we fail to get fourth place in league then Wenger will have one season left to turn it around.
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RossieGooner
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:38 pm
- Location: Roscommon, Ireland
Couldnt agree more - dont forget it was Dein who used to negotitate tranfers. He was central to new players coming in.Rob wrote:The more you look at this the more DISASTEROUS Dein's departure becomes.
He was the one Board member who could have taken Wenger to one side and made him see the writing on the wall. The others are obviously either incapable or unwilling - or both.
Point is, that it's obvious what is wrong with the squad; no leadership, no fight, no muscle; and deficiencies in central defence and central midfield.For the 'Wenger must stay brigade' - answer me this :-
What time scale is required for AW to admit the above and act on it ?
One year ? Two years ? Five years ? Ten years ?
He had all this closed season gone to act and he sat on his hands and did zilch. Think about it ...!
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WengerKnows
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:08 am
QuartzGooner wrote:Wenger to stay, but to be grilled by board as to why he:
Failed to replace /Diarra/Flamini/Gilberto
Failed to sort out Centre Backs
agree with Quartz , unfortunately i also feel that the board is happy with a 4th place finish to make the champions leauge $$$$$$ without spending big money on transfers .
I am very much with Lethal and Rob on this one - I have always felt and openly stated that the departure of DD was a black day for this club and I feel now what we are witnessing is bearing that out to a degree. Even the most outspoken opponents of DD on here admit that DD was like a fan to some degree and from my point of view wenger needs (a) someone who knows what they are about to show him where we are going wrong and (b) someone with the balls to stand up and say that to wenger without fear of recrimination and we all know that DD's working relationship was such that occurances like this would never cause a problem between them.
I voted for end of season departure as I have been advocating for some time now. This evening I actually felt sorry for wenger cos his house is falling down around him and instead of him being able to walk away with his held high it is becoming more and more likely that he will be walking away in failure. For all his faults wenger doesnt deserve that ending and I really hope that it doesnt come down to that. I have long since predicted that both wenger and the board cannot keep expecting to take the support of the fans for granted and there would have to a point somewhere where enough would be enough - in the past the board have been ruthless enough to get rid of DD and GG despite both giving years of outstanding service and whose contributions have in no small way assisted us in our recent successes so there should be no question of wenger not being held accountable also.
As I have said recently there are only a small number of trophies to be handed out each season so not everybody can win one. Some fans are saying that if he doesnt win something this season he should go but that would never be a judgement factor for me. Quite simply I believe that wenger has lost his way and is totally wrapped up in his ideals and morals that he is losing sight of what is happening in the real world. If he showed in january that he now recognises his errors and the quality experienced players that we badly need are brought in regardless of cost, if he shows the lost ruthless streak that he once had and kicked *word censored* like greedybayor out and let others like gallas know who is the boss then maybe just maybe I would support him for another season. However what we cannot allow to happen is another year or two drifting along like this while the mancs, chavs, scousers and citeeh stretch away from us while we excercise financial prudence and wave goodbye to our stars like cesc, clichy, sagna etc
I voted for end of season departure as I have been advocating for some time now. This evening I actually felt sorry for wenger cos his house is falling down around him and instead of him being able to walk away with his held high it is becoming more and more likely that he will be walking away in failure. For all his faults wenger doesnt deserve that ending and I really hope that it doesnt come down to that. I have long since predicted that both wenger and the board cannot keep expecting to take the support of the fans for granted and there would have to a point somewhere where enough would be enough - in the past the board have been ruthless enough to get rid of DD and GG despite both giving years of outstanding service and whose contributions have in no small way assisted us in our recent successes so there should be no question of wenger not being held accountable also.
As I have said recently there are only a small number of trophies to be handed out each season so not everybody can win one. Some fans are saying that if he doesnt win something this season he should go but that would never be a judgement factor for me. Quite simply I believe that wenger has lost his way and is totally wrapped up in his ideals and morals that he is losing sight of what is happening in the real world. If he showed in january that he now recognises his errors and the quality experienced players that we badly need are brought in regardless of cost, if he shows the lost ruthless streak that he once had and kicked *word censored* like greedybayor out and let others like gallas know who is the boss then maybe just maybe I would support him for another season. However what we cannot allow to happen is another year or two drifting along like this while the mancs, chavs, scousers and citeeh stretch away from us while we excercise financial prudence and wave goodbye to our stars like cesc, clichy, sagna etc
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QuartzGooner
- Posts: 14474
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 pm
- Location: London
Scenario:
If our title bid continues to falter.. if Wenger fails to strengthen in January.. if we fail to make a serious challenge in the Champions League (or get to the FA Cup Final)... and if - at the start of next summer - Wenger tells us (again!) that he's happy with his squad, and his main focus is on "keeping the squad together" rather than adding to it...
then, yes.. the tide should start turning again Wenger, and his position as manager, seriously looked at.
But surely surely surely, he will bring in players in January?? it would be criminal not to!
- our players need help!
- they need experienced players to guide them!
- they need a goalie they can rely on!
- they need a centre back to organise and dominate!
- they need a midfield enforcer to stand up and be counted, and help protect our brittle defence!!
We knew all this months and months ago.. so why hasn't anything been done???
I'm losing faith and belief in our manager, and that upsets me.. because I'm so greatful for everything he's done for our club.
I'm desperate for Wenger to make a success of things again.. but with each passing game, and each passing transfer window, I'm losing more and more belief.
If our title bid continues to falter.. if Wenger fails to strengthen in January.. if we fail to make a serious challenge in the Champions League (or get to the FA Cup Final)... and if - at the start of next summer - Wenger tells us (again!) that he's happy with his squad, and his main focus is on "keeping the squad together" rather than adding to it...
then, yes.. the tide should start turning again Wenger, and his position as manager, seriously looked at.
But surely surely surely, he will bring in players in January?? it would be criminal not to!
- our players need help!
- they need experienced players to guide them!
- they need a goalie they can rely on!
- they need a centre back to organise and dominate!
- they need a midfield enforcer to stand up and be counted, and help protect our brittle defence!!
We knew all this months and months ago.. so why hasn't anything been done???
I'm losing faith and belief in our manager, and that upsets me.. because I'm so greatful for everything he's done for our club.
I'm desperate for Wenger to make a success of things again.. but with each passing game, and each passing transfer window, I'm losing more and more belief.
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CraigPollard
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 3:44 pm
- Location: Portsmouth
I agree with a lot said on this topic. I too, am not fickle enough to forget everything AW has done for us. But is it just me that feels like the whole club reaks of complacancy?
Wenger knows full well the board will never fire him. The board know full well he will never leave before his contract ends. The starting XI know full well that regardless of how badly they play, they will be playing again next week as there is no quality to rival there place. This i believe to be true with exception of Theo. He is by far better than Ebouseless, but AW picks Eboue ahead of him on many occasions, hence when Theo comes on, he tends to change the game - he is the only player fighting for a place!
Look at Gallas - Shit defender, Even shitter Captain yet every game, despite any negative actions (birmingham to name one) he is still picked, he is still captain, and AW still loves him.
My issue with a number of Arsenal fans is their continuous "Reactive" mindset, as oppose to being "Proactive". The AW argument is not new, its been going on for a few seasons now, only now more people are listening and agreeing. But this "One More Season" and "One More Window" stuff is bollocks! Ever heard of "tomorrow never comes". People have been giving AW "one more year" for 2-3 years now. He has created a very very young team and has convinced himself that it is good enough to win the league. He is far too stubborn to realise he is wrong, and as a result, this will not change.
The young players are great, until they become great. Then "Johnny Big Potatoes" offers them 6 figure weekly salaries and we offer them 15k and goodbye, there goes another. So it starts again with 16/17 year olds! This team has been in transition for 4 years, but its a completely different team from 4 years ago! (Clichy & Kolo exempt) - There is no point bringing youth through only to lose them to the highest bidder.
I urge anyone and everyone on this forum to not be surprised if January yields no new players - certainly not the ones we need. We will all hear the usual crap "We have Eduardo and Rosicky back from injury now" (OK Rosicknote probably not) or "We dont have defensive problems as Song is proving himself every game and we have traore back from loan" or "we dont need a defensive mid as denilson fits this mould" - Hell, when the window shuts and we find ourselves fucked again we can listen to the "It was impossible to know RvP would suffer an injury" shit all over again.
If the above happens, i hope i dont see the same names that gave him "til the next transfer window" giving him the "lets wait to the end of the season".
Take that *word censored* Ramos at the lane - turns up, wins them the mickey mouse cup, they all love him - then 2 points from 8 games. GONE!
'arry turns up - BANG - 7 points from 3 games. - Had they gave Ramos til the end of the season, they may have gone down - can anyone see this happening under 'arry?
Pro Activeness - If AW is no longer doing it - find someone that will! There are people out there! - Who had heard of AW before he joined?
Wenger knows full well the board will never fire him. The board know full well he will never leave before his contract ends. The starting XI know full well that regardless of how badly they play, they will be playing again next week as there is no quality to rival there place. This i believe to be true with exception of Theo. He is by far better than Ebouseless, but AW picks Eboue ahead of him on many occasions, hence when Theo comes on, he tends to change the game - he is the only player fighting for a place!
Look at Gallas - Shit defender, Even shitter Captain yet every game, despite any negative actions (birmingham to name one) he is still picked, he is still captain, and AW still loves him.
My issue with a number of Arsenal fans is their continuous "Reactive" mindset, as oppose to being "Proactive". The AW argument is not new, its been going on for a few seasons now, only now more people are listening and agreeing. But this "One More Season" and "One More Window" stuff is bollocks! Ever heard of "tomorrow never comes". People have been giving AW "one more year" for 2-3 years now. He has created a very very young team and has convinced himself that it is good enough to win the league. He is far too stubborn to realise he is wrong, and as a result, this will not change.
The young players are great, until they become great. Then "Johnny Big Potatoes" offers them 6 figure weekly salaries and we offer them 15k and goodbye, there goes another. So it starts again with 16/17 year olds! This team has been in transition for 4 years, but its a completely different team from 4 years ago! (Clichy & Kolo exempt) - There is no point bringing youth through only to lose them to the highest bidder.
I urge anyone and everyone on this forum to not be surprised if January yields no new players - certainly not the ones we need. We will all hear the usual crap "We have Eduardo and Rosicky back from injury now" (OK Rosicknote probably not) or "We dont have defensive problems as Song is proving himself every game and we have traore back from loan" or "we dont need a defensive mid as denilson fits this mould" - Hell, when the window shuts and we find ourselves fucked again we can listen to the "It was impossible to know RvP would suffer an injury" shit all over again.
If the above happens, i hope i dont see the same names that gave him "til the next transfer window" giving him the "lets wait to the end of the season".
Take that *word censored* Ramos at the lane - turns up, wins them the mickey mouse cup, they all love him - then 2 points from 8 games. GONE!
'arry turns up - BANG - 7 points from 3 games. - Had they gave Ramos til the end of the season, they may have gone down - can anyone see this happening under 'arry?
Pro Activeness - If AW is no longer doing it - find someone that will! There are people out there! - Who had heard of AW before he joined?
Good point. The financial difference between finishing 4th / CL quarter finals isn't that far from finishing 1st and winning the CL. I don't know the exact figures, but I'd be surprised if there was (directly) more than £10m involved.WengerKnows wrote:agree with Quartz , unfortunately i also feel that the board is happy with a 4th place finish to make the champions leauge $$$$$$ without spending big money on transfers .
