Mr Wenger

GunnerTino · Post by **GunnerTino** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:55 am

Yeah you are right about being patient,maybe waiting
a week or so to see how the manager adds to the squad
may give us all a better idea of which way the club is
going.I just have this nagging doubt that he will not go out and
buy the 3 to 4 players we quite clearly need.Don't forget
we will lose some players to the African Nations Cup during
the season so a stronger squad is essential.

Red Carpet · Post by **Red Carpet** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:03 am

When I called for patience I did have more than a couple of weeks in mind !!.

It would certainly be nice to spend the rest of the summer discussing new arrivals than departures.

MK Gould · Post by **MK Gould** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:05 pm

Red Carpet - I'm all for patience, but haven't we already shown great patience over the last 2 years. We've been patient because we are focussing on the future - a future that now seems far from certain.

There must be a middle ground. At the moment, the behaviour & stance of the Board suggests that they are fixed on a particular path.

Arsene has publicly said that he wants Arsenal to remain English owned. I presume he hasn't changed his mind, and that he doesn't want us to go down the Kronke route - despite his friendship with Dein. So keeping our Manager happy may not involve the type of knee jerk you are afraid of.

And the Board could be accused of a knee jerk reaction over Dein in the first place. Were they naive enough to think it wouldn't matter? Have they considered having Kronke himself on the Board & give him the chance to prove his motives prior to a takeover?

Whatever, I still think that the Board should bite their collective stiff upper lips & forgive Dein for what he did - if that's what it takes!

Red Carpet · Post by **Red Carpet** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:36 pm

MK - I hardly think two years qualifies as martyrdom do you !!.

The board have performed very well over the last 10 years, overseen the building of a new stadium on time and deserve our support. Dein was part of that as well but as has been said many times no one is bigger than the club.
He would appear to have wanted to sell up to the Yank, the Yank that despite saying nothing of his intentions, a sizeable amount of our support would happily see take control of the club.
I fail to see why the board should go cap in hand to Dein, who, lets face it, wouldn't come back unless there were changes at the top anyway.

Leigh On Eea Gooner · Post by **Leigh On Eea Gooner** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:56 pm

I'm a bit confused why people think the board has done such a bad job over the last 10 years that they should all be got rid of . For my money they've done a marvelous job .

Did anyone read the Barca spokeperson who received a call from a representative of Henry late April ( after dein had left ) saying he would be interested in moving there . David dein's son has been mentioned as that person !!

augie · Post by **augie** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:18 pm

Rec Carpet, the new stadium apart, this board has performed well over the last 10 years because of David Dein & not the rest of them. This board were an underperforming rabble before DD got involved over 20 years ago and showed no sign of how they could make Arsenal a major force again. I cannot understand how, in the whole opposition to kroenke takeover that some fans feel, that nobody asked if the board is against a takeover period or against a kroenke takeover. I mean fitzman was selling shares before the pact so he at that stage wasn't against selling on shares and a pact refusing to sell more shares is hardly a long term commitment is it ? It appears to me that they have decided not to sell before fitzman gets his tax exile status or they want to wait 12 months in the hope that another interested party steps in. Either ways it doesn't seem like their actions are anything other than serving themselves

Leigh On Eea Gooner · Post by **Leigh On Eea Gooner** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:27 pm

I've heard that David Dein can cure the incurable also ...

Red Carpet · Post by **Red Carpet** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:36 pm

Augie - You seem very well informed. Either you have the ear of someone on the board or are speculating. What evidence do you have that the only person pulling his weight over the last 10 years was Dein ?!?. I certainly couldn't make an assessment on their individual performances one way or the other.

If you were a board member and had overseen as massive a venture as building a 60k seater stadium would you really want to sell your shares before it began to reap rewards !!??!?.

I'm not against the club being sold on principle, but i would have to be convinced it was the best for the club long term. The clamour to sell to someone we know nothing about and the panic over DD's departure smack of desperation.

Leigh On Eea Gooner · Post by **Leigh On Eea Gooner** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:48 pm

I couldn't agree more with Red Carpets .... I thought Dein was all for moving to wembley . I don't think the other Take-overs ( Man U & Liverpool ) have stood any test of time to see if they are benefical. So far all I read about from Man U fans is higher ticket prices & the Liverpool manager moaning about lack of funds.. It's not the pot at the end of the rainbow you might think it is !

Chopper · Post by **Chopper** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:16 pm

Augie is right.

You don't have to be well informed just be a regular watcher of the goings on at the club to know Dein was the main man behind the last 10 years. It was him that got Wenger and him that first suggested a new stadium I believe, although as mentioned he wanted to move in to Wembley and Friar/Edelman/Fizsman wanted a different site, so i'll half give you that one. There are various smaller things also.

I'm not for selling out to SS although to use your own words just dismissing him without the full information is a 'knee-jerk reaction'. I don't think anyone wants us to jeopardise our long term future, but at the same time we don't want to be left standing still and get overtaken by half the premiership.

If we start slipping then the glory hunters will tail off particularly with the high prices. If we start playing in front of 35000 each week in a 60000 stadium it will be harder for the players and results won't improve, plus the prices maybe increased to cover the shortfall. Then true fans may get priced out, and still then there is no guarantee of covering the cost of the ground, meaning we could struggle to compete financially ever again.

It's a vicious circle which is why we need to put something in place and act now.

Red Carpet · Post by **Red Carpet** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:30 am

I think Augie's point was not so much that DD was "the main man behind the last 10 years" .. his position within the club alone made that quite clear, he more suggested that the rest of the board were a complete waste of time and the only good things done were due to DD. I'm sorry, I think that is a very naive and sweeping statement to make, especially given that we are not party to the full facts.

You are right though Chopper that the club can clearly ill-afford to stand still just we have to make sure that these things are done in the right way and not take a short term approach.
Is it not a sad reflection of our game as a whole that we have to pander to the whims of the "glory hunters" to ensure their continued support ?!?.

MK Gould · Post by **MK Gould** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:16 am

Red Carpet - I don't think its just "glory hunters" who are getting irate at the Board. I've droned on long & often about standing in the rain on the clock end, arriving at Euston for the football specials, being one of the 300 fans away for midweek games. Losing to Luton & Watford in the cup - and it not being an upset! I was at York City & Winterslag (!!!)..... I've done my time!

Fact is that Arsenal's metamorphis "coincided" with the reign of Wenger (& Dein). Before that we seemed happy enough to be tucked in behind the leading clubs. You mentioned 2 years as not being a long time. It is these days - especially when during this time we've had the best player & Manager that the premiership has ever seen. We've also seen the dismantling of the "invincibles". Maybe, if gooners had been a little more vocal in the early 70's we wouldn't have seen another great Arsenal team break up & wouldn't have gone through the low times of 1974-1989 (which happened to coincide with the period I hardly missed a match!!!)? Wasn't there one or other of the Hill-Woods in charge at that time as well??

Red Carpet · Post by **Red Carpet** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:27 am

MK - You have stirred some forgettable memories there !! .. Winterslag was possibly our most humiliating European exit ... I only made the home leg I am afraid !.

I appreciate that it isn't just the glory hunters that are getting irate, but the suggestion was made by Chopper that they would vote with their feet if we stood still. I was merely stating that if the board was worried about such fair weather support what a sorry state of affairs it is. Having said that it does not mean that our support should be taken for granted.
Fans are of course entitled to be vocal, but it needs to be channelled correctly and I am suspicious of the moaning of some of the "jonny come latelys" who have only ever known success and feel we have a God given right to it.
You've clearly paid your dues over the years, as have I, we have experienced the barren years and that should allow us a little more perspective, thats not to say we want a return to the mediocrity of years
gone by, but understand that decisions need to be made for the right reasons and not because we can't wait to win silverware.

Galasso · Post by **Galasso** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:39 am

Winterslag...we never play teams with names like this any more. I believe there is ateam in South America called "The Strongest". This would make Spurs...ah, too easy.

I digress,

Red Carpet

It is difficult to know just from the post and attitude of the poster their background in relation to supporting the Arsenal. MK Gould goes back a long way but might, if we didn't know his background, be considered a jonny come lately if we use these equations:

Long-standing fan = Patient and aware of the need for stability.

Only knows success fan = impatient and demanding new money and change at any cost.

Of course these equations are nonsense as, I think you said in an earlier post, that things are complicated. We do not have hard facts. But we rarely ever have hard facts at the time when history is being made. We will learn the full facts in some years down the line from the occurrence of the events. Its only that the last 10 years have seen so little upheaval at board and managerial level that they could have pretty much done anything in that time and we wouldn't have noticed

If we take the factor of a possible takeover out of the equation, then I think what we have at the moment with regards to the Board still worries fans. Because Dein propagated his image as Football Man/Football Powerbroker/Arsene Wenger confidant to such magnificent effect that breaking the link seems as though it leaves an unsealable hole. David Dein is a very ambitious man in football and I assume that it will not be too long before we see him again, and if it is not at Arsenal, then it will surely be in another role.

For me, I would like Arsene Wenger to stay at the club for as long as is humanly possible. I would like David Dein to return to the club for his expertise, but would question if it was in conjunction with a sell-out. I believe that we have some of the best players in the country, NOW, and wish that we could add the "super, super class" players that Arsene would like to, as he has always complemented his sides in such a way. I hope that we do not waste the talent we have nurtured up to now in a way that our back 5 was between 91 and 97( in terms of challenging for the title).

My support is not conditional on anything above happening.

Red Carpet · Post by **Red Carpet** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:25 pm

Galasso - Good post mate .. I don't disagree with any of that, other than perhaps Dein's return , which, as you rightly say, would only probably happen if the sale went through.