There may be trouble ahead… (23/7)

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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SPUDMASHER
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Post by SPUDMASHER »


Are you having a laugh or is this what he actually said?


Doh!!!! He actually mentioned loads of very well constructed boring arguments as to why we can never return to terracing of any nature.
Female fans, children,expectations, value for money etc.

Reading between the lines his argument basically read that there would be too many 'new style fans' that would be upset about the changes.

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Galasso
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Post by Galasso »

I don't deny that in theory we have enough people waiting to fill extra spaces.

But everyone would be prepared to pay the same price for a seat and to stand?

What would be an acceptable price to pay for a terrace place based upon our existing scale?

£32 quid for a seat an adult band b game (I think that is right).

Cus Geezer
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Post by Cus Geezer »

Spudmasher - I had a sneaking suspicion that it wasn't true, would be nice if MPs did use such evocative language once in a while though.

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Post by Cus Geezer »

I don't deny that in theory we have enough people waiting to fill extra spaces.

But everyone would be prepared to pay the same price for a seat and to stand?

What would be an acceptable price to pay for a terrace place based upon our existing scale?

£32 quid for a seat an adult band b game (I think that is right).


Probably be a case of rearranging prices - the terraces would possibly be slightly lower than what the cheapest seat is now, with the cheapest seat becoming slightly higher than now.

In all, people are paying quite a high price for something that they are not 100% happy with now, so I doubt they'd have too many qualms if they find the price of standing on a terrace not exactly dirt cheap.


Also with Spudmasher's reply from his MP mentioning about women and terracing - people mostly stand at stadium concerts in conditions about as safe as a football terrace. Is that MP trying to say that women don't go to gigs?

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Galasso
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Post by Galasso »

Cus Geezer wrote:
I don't deny that in theory we have enough people waiting to fill extra spaces.

But everyone would be prepared to pay the same price for a seat and to stand?

What would be an acceptable price to pay for a terrace place based upon our existing scale?

£32 quid for a seat an adult band b game (I think that is right).


Probably be a case of rearranging prices - the terraces would possibly be slightly lower than what the cheapest seat is now, with the cheapest seat becoming slightly higher than now.

In all, people are paying quite a high price for something that they are not 100% happy with now, so I doubt they'd have too many qualms if they find the price of standing on a terrace not exactly dirt cheap.


Also with Spudmasher's reply from his MP mentioning about women and terracing - people mostly stand at stadium concerts in conditions about as safe as a football terrace. Is that MP trying to say that women don't go to gigs?

Putting up the prices of the cheap seats - that's the kind of thinking the club likes to hear!! The problem is that terraces should also be used as some sort of common denominator as well as an element of choice with the stadium. Some fans are now priced out of the stadium.

Alex Fynn has written on Arsenal and he suggested some time ago that certain sections of the stadium would be subsidised by TV revenue because they provide something that is essential to the TV audience - atmosphere. Without it, the product is cheapened.

I am in favour of terraces at affordable cost, I just don't know how much of an overall financial advantage the club would see limited terracing areas over seats in the same area. And, like the politicians you mentioned, are scared of this issue.

And the bit re women - Your right - This proves that essentially the politicians to do not have a reasoned arguement against this issue.

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Post by Cus Geezer »

Putting up the prices of the cheap seats - that's the kind of thinking the club likes to hear!! The problem is that terraces should also be used as some sort of common denominator as well as an element of choice with the stadium. Some fans are now priced out of the stadium.

Ideally I'd like it to be an area where those who are priced out can come, but the Arsenal wouldn't entertain that idea, so we have to have some element of realism there.

You do hope that one day Football will earn so much in TV revenue it will lower enterance fee. Seeing that most TV will be net based in the future and people will download their Eastenders and Coronation Streets to watch at a time to suit them, sports events will be virtually the only thing that can guarantee a large simultaneous audience, so there must be some big advertising revenue coming its way in future, surely?

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gooner.ed
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Post by gooner.ed »

regarding the pricing of standing, i think it should be remembered that there are already a lot of people who have paid £32 and prefer to stand - creating the very problem of disgruntlement amongst those who sit behind them.

however, i see it like this. to avoid significant and thus inconvenient structural changes to the stadium, and to avoid those sitting near the standing areas having their view of the pitch blocked, i could foresee - let's say - the back 10 rows in the lower tier behind the goal being changed. because of uefa rules they would have tip up seats that tip up and are then vertically below a lean-on stantion. they don't have to be removed but can be used as seats for champions league games (as uefa rules require). to avoid cutting off the view, as the standing area reaches its edge (say the corner flag), it would occupy less and less rows so that those sitting in the back row when the seating starts again can see the corner flag on the other side of the goal without standing up. i can't think of the name for this shape, but it resembles certain razor blades. i am going to have to get this illustrated and do a piece on the main part of the site about it next time i give this safe standing thing a push.

to my mind, with the rows as wide as they are, i reckon for every 20 seats you could very very comfortably get 30 people standing. with their extra mathchday purchases it would make sense to charge them say £25 to stand, so the club gets £75 for what it currently fetches £64 for, and the extra for food, drink programmes etc.

anyway, the law has to change first. and then we can get onto arsenal's case. but it is definitely feasible without major work. some seats need to come out to be replaced by a different type, along with stantions, so they are convertible. and the club can make more money at the same time as improving the atmosphere.

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Basil is a Gooner
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Post by Basil is a Gooner »

Good luck with your campaign gooner.ed.
Being a bit cynical I expect to see the removed seats on eBay (or sold by the Club so you can turn them into something exciting "like a go-cart") - unless they are full of plutonium or suchlike...... :roll: :roll:

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MK Gould
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Post by MK Gould »

gooner.ed wrote:......i could foresee - let's say - the back 10 rows in the lower tier behind the goal being changed. because of uefa rules they would have tip up seats that tip up and are then vertically below a lean-on stantion. they don't have to be removed but can be used as seats for champions league games (as uefa rules require).
Trouble is that even people with seats would go and join their mates in the "terrace". If it were ever to happen then it would definitely need to be completely separate from the seated areas to control access numbers. I still think that this is very easily achieved in the same way as theme parks often do, with wristbands etc. The problem at Hillsborough (and at the old Wembley) wasn't terraces as such. It was overcrowding in particular sections.

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GoonerJim
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Post by GoonerJim »

MK Gould wrote:
gooner.ed wrote:......i could foresee - let's say - the back 10 rows in the lower tier behind the goal being changed. because of uefa rules they would have tip up seats that tip up and are then vertically below a lean-on stantion. they don't have to be removed but can be used as seats for champions league games (as uefa rules require).
Trouble is that even people with seats would go and join their mates in the "terrace". If it were ever to happen then it would definitely need to be completely separate from the seated areas to control access numbers. I still think that this is very easily achieved in the same way as theme parks often do, with wristbands etc. The problem at Hillsborough (and at the old Wembley) wasn't terraces as such. It was overcrowding in particular sections.
And fencing which kept people penned in

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MK Gould
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Post by MK Gould »

Quote - "My objective is to make sure that EVERYONE who comes to the stadium, be they small children, teenagers, adults or OAPs, has a good day out.

Well Mr Edelman, there are very many people posting comments on this and other gooner sites suggesting that they aren't currently having a "good day out". No flags, No standing, No singing. No swearing, No abusing the away fans. No alcohol at your seat, No smoking. No running with scissors. His idea of a good day out is one which extracts all possibility of doing/saying anything which might cause offence. Well I'm more offended by people leaving early than people standing or swearing. Why is there no rule about that Keith? And I'm more offended by flashing advertising hordings than by flags. You gonna ban them Keith? If people don't enjoy their day out, its much more likely to be as a result of the ridiculous post-match queue at Highbury & Islington, the loan repayments to fund admission + burger for little Johnny, or the lack of atmosphere created by having too many rules!

Cus Geezer
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Post by Cus Geezer »

No alcohol at your seat, No smoking
I think these two we can live without. I'm happy with the booze being kept to the bars outside of the stands, and I can remember days of being seated next to the human chimney and what fun that wasn't.

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stats
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Post by stats »

Just bring a flask in the stadium
They won't search you for one of them & the guy next to me done ti all last season with his 'special coffee' he called it
If he wanted some then he'd pop to the loo & make another one with his vodka & Arsenal coffee, he kept offering me some but i yet to accept

Cus Geezer
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Post by Cus Geezer »

I thought they barred all that bringing your own refreshments in all modern stadia so they can keep force you to buy their produce

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stats
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Post by stats »

They only search you if you have a bag, which is easy enough to put under a coat
Yeah little feckers the food & drink is toooo much for people at the mo
Thats why a pack lunch is being bought with me to the Emirates on the weekend

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