The Gooner Forum

Chippy wrote:Looks like things have got out of hand over there. Lets not let it happen here or we'll have to lock it.

My 2p worth. We need to differentiate between the politics of the situation and respect for the dead. I think both the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are a disgrace but that is not the soldiers' fault. They are just doing their duty, and making the ultimate sacrifice.

In a democracy we must have the right to protest. In this case the people to protest against are the politicians, so these guys should be marching on Westminster. It seems to me that trying to do it in Wooton Basset is just being deliberately provocative.

As I said keep it in order and remember this is not a political forum but we do occasionally go off piste.

Very good post, Chippy. I too hope we don't have to lock this one down so let's keep it in order. Racist crap of any kind will be deleted.

I believe whole heartedly in the right to protest and in freedom of speech but these extremists are being provocative and I find it offensive for them to do it there. It's all about context. If they want to protest then as Chippy says do it at Westminster, not in a town paying tribute to dead young soldiers.

I've always said that if you live in a foreign country with a diferent culture then you must adapt to that country - the country shouldn't be expected to adapt to you. You must respect the culture and society of your host when you are a guest. If you have grown up there then there is no excuse - you know what is culturally and socially acceptable.

Personally I am against all extremists whether they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish or racist. But by an outright ban you play into their hands, you fuel their rantings and their claims of being excluded, victimised and discriminated against.

So you call their bluff. The proposed march is a protest against the war? To bring attention to dead innocents? Not just a ruse to create controversy or insult the families of the dead? Okay, have your march at Westminster.

Fucking twats - these guys have given up their LIVES to serve their countries and the *word censored* who made them go over there are now gonna disrespect them.

:awnker:

That group is run by BNP specialists clearly

Heres a better non racist group aiming to unite everyone,

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wal ... 5424445082

To be frank I hate the islamic presence in our country. People actually think that having a negative opinion is "racism" when it is a religion and has members from all races and nationalities. I myself, have no past convictions for anything. I don't drink or do drugs and am a very nice tolerant person but I had to leave college for calling religious clothing including Islam,Siekh's and the Christian cross, as stupid and I was bewildered when everyone called me a racist for it. This maybe the 21st century but you still cannot even challenge religion as soon as I made that comment a bunch of muslims got offended and I got threats. I didn't and I still don't have any problems with 1 particular religion I am against all religions but unfortunately Islam is a very strong religion and we Europeans are scared, scared to criticise or compramise the position of Islam. Take for example the game Little Big Planet, that game had to be recalled because it contained 1 islamic song oh but they wouldn't recall Gears of War which illegal used ST Pauls Cathedral. As I said I don't have a problem with muslims but aslong as Islam is strong, I can't see how religion and secularism can get along.

Before I start I am no lover of the british forces in general given the attrocities committed by them against people in Ireland and indeed in Derry itself.
I also believe that the wars in Afghanistan etc are unjustified.
I also believe that when you pick up a gun whether as a soldier or a terrorist of any kind (and I most certainly include Irish Republican Terrorists in this) that you can't really complain if someone shoots you before you manage to shoot them.
HOWEVER!!! for a bunch of Muslim sympathisers / extremists to be allowed to protest on English soil in the very town (which I know very well having lived for 18 months in Calne) where the bodies of dead British servicemen are received, I find completely unbelieveable and an outrage.
In my honest opinion I think the English/British people are far too tolerant of the extreme muslim teachings that are being preached in their very midst, what action they should take I honestly don't know, but I wonder what action would befall british Christians were they to preach in the streets of Kabul, or were the BNP to march in protest against christian persecution in Afghanistan???????

ChildrensCardGames wrote:To be frank I hate the islamic presence in our country. People actually think that having a negative opinion is "racism" when it is a religion and has members from all races and nationalities. I myself, have no past convictions for anything. I don't drink or do drugs and am a very nice tolerant person but I had to leave college for calling religious clothing including Islam,Siekh's and the Christian cross, as stupid and I was bewildered when everyone called me a racist for it. This maybe the 21st century but you still cannot even challenge religion as soon as I made that comment a bunch of muslims got offended and I got threats. I didn't and I still don't have any problems with 1 particular religion I am against all religions but unfortunately Islam is a very strong religion and we Europeans are scared, scared to criticise or compramise the position of Islam. Take for example the game Little Big Planet, that game had to be recalled because it contained 1 islamic song oh but they wouldn't recall Gears of War which illegal used ST Pauls Cathedral. As I said I don't have a problem with muslims but aslong as Islam is strong, I can't see how religion and secularism can get along.

I understand your points, mate - but you can't include all Muslims in that. I have Muslim friends that hate the extremist Islamic element for what it does to their religion and their standing in Ireland.

Maybe you meant to clarify it was extremists you were refering to?

Let us be clear:

These people are extremists - they do not represent Islam.

The IRA are/were extremists. They (claim to) represent Catholicism. I am a Catholic; they do not represent me.

To make anti-Islamic comments based on this one group is roughly the same as saying "...all white anglo-saxons are racist", based on the existence of the BNP.

You know what. I'm all for people continuing to support the sport team of their ancestral homeland. No problem with that at all.

But anyone who truly believes that their religion or ancestral homeland comes before the place where they've chosen to live - to the point where they would support armed struggle against it - can leave as far as I'm concerned.

That applies to Brits living in Spain/Middle East and anyone living here that starts shouting the odds that soldiers dying in Afghanistan and Iraq, or 7/7 or 911 is a good thing.

Protesting against the war is different - but should be outside parliament - But the guys organising this protest don't just want us to stop. They want us to lose.

MK Gould wrote:You know what. I'm all for people continuing to support the sport team of their ancestral homeland. No problem with that at all.

But anyone who truly believes that their religion or ancestral homeland comes before the place where they've chosen to live - to the point where they would support armed struggle against it - can leave as far as I'm concerned.

That applies to Brits living in Spain/Middle East and anyone living here that starts shouting the odds that soldiers dying in Afghanistan and Iraq, or 7/7 or 911 is a good thing.

Protesting against the war is different - but should be outside parliament - But the guys organising this protest don't just want us to stop. They want us to lose.

Top post.

digger WROTE: "I'm not anti-Muslim, i'm anti-extremist. If you allow religion to run your life, your life probably ain't worth having."

Well said Digger!

As for Muslim law - when someone dies - I think they must be buried before the next sunset, I could be wrong but doesn't the same also apply to those of the Hebrew faith???

One of the problems with extremist's is that they will use Any Means Necessary to achieve their own (misguided) goals...which is to have everyone adhere to their belief system, - why not allow them to hold their march and allow the BNP to also march on the same day...and pull all the plod and medical sevices back by 5 miles and see what happens.

We are far too lenient in this country...we allow those we provide a safe haven for, where they CAN air their views and beliefs etc to turn around and kick us in the wotsits...

It just ain't right.

If we're at war then why don't we lock up or send home our enemies who live among us??

Any history buffs among you? Didn't Lord Haw Haw (William Joyce) get executed for treason after WW2 for siding with the nazi's? What's the difference with some of those mouthing off today....?

We're not at war, we're helping the Afghan and Iraqi governments. Its not treason to disagree with the illegal acts of your own government. In fact "I was following orders" was not a defence after WW II.

The issue here is the inappropriateness of demonstrating in Wooton Bassett.

MK Gould wrote:If we're at war then why don't we lock up or send home our enemies who live among us??

Any history buffs among you? Didn't Lord Haw Haw (William Joyce) get executed for treason after WW2 for siding with the nazi's? What's the difference with some of those mouthing off today....?

I beleive Treason is the only crime which is still punishable by death, under UK law.

olgitgooner wrote:

MK Gould wrote:If we're at war then why don't we lock up or send home our enemies who live among us??

Any history buffs among you? Didn't Lord Haw Haw (William Joyce) get executed for treason after WW2 for siding with the nazi's? What's the difference with some of those mouthing off today....?

I beleive Treason is the only crime which is still punishable by death, under UK law.

No - your govt canned all capital offences years ago.

I'm not anti-Muslim, i'm anti-extremist. If you allow religion to run your life, your life probably ain't worth having.

I agree wholeheartedly. Much respect to the troops, but I hate these extremists. I've joined this group too.