Chelsea and 'the English game'
I remember watching the U21's and the U17's Euro championships and something that struck me was the success was built on defending well and scoring on the counter attack. Now to be fair the U21's, we were missing a lot of attacking players but while credit should go to the defence and the two managers who pulled it off, we were so clearly behind the other countries in terms of ability. The results flatter to deceive people into hope
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Belfast Boy
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Well written post Tony, and broaches a subject that's never far from any Gooners mind as we are constantly bein made scapegoat for the national team's failings at international level, and even if there were any substance to their puerile views , which of course there isn't, Chelsea were actually the first English club side to field an entirely foreign first team on Boxing Day 1999 a full 6 years before we did and it's especially infuriating when the persons perpetuating this garbage ought to, and actually probably do, know different but it better suits their purposes to pass the buck and create controversy but I s'pose we're easy targets cos we don't have any English captains playing for us 
There's well over 400 players registered in the first team squads of the the Premiership and under half are foreign at about 180 players which leaves 200+ English players, for McClaren to choose from, who are playing against some of the best players the world has to offer, week in week out, the same type of players that they are going to face at international tournaments, and yet as everybody knows the English first eleven practically picks itself cos the fact that any half decent English player costs a bloody fortune is proof in itself that home grown quality is in short supply
The simple facts are that it is not Arsenal's responsibility to look out for the interests of the national team and England have not won anything since 1966 and that was with home advantage, which was well over a quarter of a century before the perceived foreign invasion, and since when would it help the national teams prospects for it's players to be playing in a lower standard league, the kids coming thru today have got to know that if they wanna play at the top level then they are goin to be up against the Fabregas' of this world and raise their game accordingly and if I remember correctly the same people were blaming English Clubs' poor showing in Europe during practically the whole of the 90's on the fact that we'd been banned for 5 years at the end of the 80's
On a brighter note tho I have heard several high-profile and influential figures and the pundits within our game starting to admit that the gulf in class and ability is there for everyone to see when they have visited foreign academies, that from a very early age and more so in their teens that the young Spanish and Italian kids are far more technically advanced than British kids, and as TS sez it was AW who showed the EPL how to eat and train, and I think it was Massimo Maccarone who said that McClaren's training sessions were like something out of the dark ages!
There's well over 400 players registered in the first team squads of the the Premiership and under half are foreign at about 180 players which leaves 200+ English players, for McClaren to choose from, who are playing against some of the best players the world has to offer, week in week out, the same type of players that they are going to face at international tournaments, and yet as everybody knows the English first eleven practically picks itself cos the fact that any half decent English player costs a bloody fortune is proof in itself that home grown quality is in short supply
The simple facts are that it is not Arsenal's responsibility to look out for the interests of the national team and England have not won anything since 1966 and that was with home advantage, which was well over a quarter of a century before the perceived foreign invasion, and since when would it help the national teams prospects for it's players to be playing in a lower standard league, the kids coming thru today have got to know that if they wanna play at the top level then they are goin to be up against the Fabregas' of this world and raise their game accordingly and if I remember correctly the same people were blaming English Clubs' poor showing in Europe during practically the whole of the 90's on the fact that we'd been banned for 5 years at the end of the 80's
On a brighter note tho I have heard several high-profile and influential figures and the pundits within our game starting to admit that the gulf in class and ability is there for everyone to see when they have visited foreign academies, that from a very early age and more so in their teens that the young Spanish and Italian kids are far more technically advanced than British kids, and as TS sez it was AW who showed the EPL how to eat and train, and I think it was Massimo Maccarone who said that McClaren's training sessions were like something out of the dark ages!
Last edited by Belfast Boy on Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hagbard 23
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tonysaunders wrote:Yeah sorry. I kind of thought that something over two paragraphs would prove a bit difficult for some of you. Apologies.Hagbard 23 wrote:YAWN.
Did you send your job application off to the Guardian Sports desk yet?
Only joshing Saunders me old mucka, just trying to wind you up a bit.
No-one has picked on you for a while, so I thought it was about due !
Seriously though it was a very good 'article' with valid points and a lot of truth to it. Top work.
Why don't you start your own BLOG or something, as you obviously have some talent at this writing malarky.
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tomkingsbury
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great post TS, i do enjoy the forum but i do enjoy more an in-depth discussion/opinion thread about relevant football issues.
It certainly annoys me when people mention 'the english game' and arsenal's lack of english players being the sole reason why england is going down the shit hole; many people i know/have met dislike arsenal for being too foreign - firstly isnt this racist in our multicultural society, and secondly we do actually, like you say do alot for grass roots and bringin talented british footballers thru the ranks. For example, ashley cole, david bentley, anthony stokes, fabrice muamba, are to name a few who have come thru our training academy.
thenyou've got to look at the bigger picture - AW doesnt want to spend extortionate amounts on an english player who is just after money and the limelight. I heard countless times that he isnt big on the english mentality (lampard et al.) and prefers the more committed foreigner.
Not the best example as this player is a world-class player, but take david beckham - when he moved to madrid, he didnt bother learning the language and was constantly in the spotlight and allegedly may have been bought for commercial reasons. compare this to someone like kolo toure or gael clichy, who took the time to learn the language, knuckle down and just focus on their football, and you see why wenger doesnt buy british (much).
The problem with chelski is they are to an extent an anomaly, they could do what they want and it remains to be seen what ramifications this will ahve on their youth set-up. if abramovich continues to run the club like a billionaires playground, i think they will eventually come under some stick, but then they'll probably get out of it by buying a talented english player for 20m and selling him to another club for 5m two years later.
not really sure where im going with this, but there is a problem with the english game, but i think it has to do with attitudes and the england set-up. Very rarely do you see english players otuside a few big clubs within the squads i.e. nolan, barton, who have the hunger to prove themselves, and play for their country. most of the players like rio take it for granted. England has got a very talented keeper in carson so why not give him a try? The old 'experience' question then raises its head, but what about micah richards seamlessly fitting into the side? Its a sad state of affairs when owen and rooney can literally walk back into the side instead of having to challenge someone else for their place. Bottom line, no matter how good a gerrard or owen is for our national team, we should be able to have someone that can fit in and do the job. The only reason fat frank remains in the squad despite his consistent dour performances is becasue he's part of that 'english boys club' syndrome. If McClaren really wanted to change the england team, he should have sorted that out first.
It certainly annoys me when people mention 'the english game' and arsenal's lack of english players being the sole reason why england is going down the shit hole; many people i know/have met dislike arsenal for being too foreign - firstly isnt this racist in our multicultural society, and secondly we do actually, like you say do alot for grass roots and bringin talented british footballers thru the ranks. For example, ashley cole, david bentley, anthony stokes, fabrice muamba, are to name a few who have come thru our training academy.
thenyou've got to look at the bigger picture - AW doesnt want to spend extortionate amounts on an english player who is just after money and the limelight. I heard countless times that he isnt big on the english mentality (lampard et al.) and prefers the more committed foreigner.
Not the best example as this player is a world-class player, but take david beckham - when he moved to madrid, he didnt bother learning the language and was constantly in the spotlight and allegedly may have been bought for commercial reasons. compare this to someone like kolo toure or gael clichy, who took the time to learn the language, knuckle down and just focus on their football, and you see why wenger doesnt buy british (much).
The problem with chelski is they are to an extent an anomaly, they could do what they want and it remains to be seen what ramifications this will ahve on their youth set-up. if abramovich continues to run the club like a billionaires playground, i think they will eventually come under some stick, but then they'll probably get out of it by buying a talented english player for 20m and selling him to another club for 5m two years later.
not really sure where im going with this, but there is a problem with the english game, but i think it has to do with attitudes and the england set-up. Very rarely do you see english players otuside a few big clubs within the squads i.e. nolan, barton, who have the hunger to prove themselves, and play for their country. most of the players like rio take it for granted. England has got a very talented keeper in carson so why not give him a try? The old 'experience' question then raises its head, but what about micah richards seamlessly fitting into the side? Its a sad state of affairs when owen and rooney can literally walk back into the side instead of having to challenge someone else for their place. Bottom line, no matter how good a gerrard or owen is for our national team, we should be able to have someone that can fit in and do the job. The only reason fat frank remains in the squad despite his consistent dour performances is becasue he's part of that 'english boys club' syndrome. If McClaren really wanted to change the england team, he should have sorted that out first.
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Ben-gooner14
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All_Arsenal_1886
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Belfast Boy
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good post tomkingsbury esp the bit when you said antony stokes was british 
its hard enough for the english players 2 break thru but at the end of the day if your good enough then your talent will com thru. and arsenal hav had enough english talent that for one reason or another hant made the grade,, prob becos there 2 lazy and hav 2 much money at a younger age
its hard enough for the english players 2 break thru but at the end of the day if your good enough then your talent will com thru. and arsenal hav had enough english talent that for one reason or another hant made the grade,, prob becos there 2 lazy and hav 2 much money at a younger age-
Cesc is God
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we lov each other reallyGalasso wrote:rebel gooner wrote:good post tomkingsbury esp the bit when you said antony stokes was british
What?? You mean to tell me that we are all not one big happy family anymore?
but as a small nation we like 2 claim some of our talent as been irish,,, after that we dont giv a shit as long as your granny has a irish passport Rebel,rebel gooner wrote:good post tomkingsbury esp the bit when you said antony stokes was british
I know the Irish FA is, like the English FA, not up to much. But credit where credit is due on fixture scheduling.
Today - away in Slovakia. Lads getting pissed up tonight, recover tomorrow with a few. then Monday train to Prague for game against Czech Republic on Wednesday.
Now that sounds like an away trip to me!
goin 2 get very drunk 