THE MIND OF A WENGERITE

[TeeCee]

Thats just it though, Wenger is a complete numpty when it comes to tactics, always has been. His 'great' sides were so good at counter attacking that most games didn't require specific tactics. Now that we have a squad of players that are light years behind those great teams, we need tactics but we'll never get them with Wenger, he isn't capable.

[USMartin]

What will you say if the new manager is Tony Adams and he starts on why we shouldn't spend more than we are or simply doesn't spend more than we are even if he talks the talk?

I'd bet my house that Tony Adams or ANY other Premier league manager that had the resources that Wenger has available, would not have Coco or Flappy at the club, let alone in the first team. That's why a new manager would be fantastic, regardless of who it is, because they would not have blind loyalty to Wenger's below average crap that he loves to populate the team with.

But what will you say if the new manager can't afford any better than what the current manager can? You're avoiding that. Otherwise what evidence do you have that the manager can in fact afford better abd that ckub will in fact pay competitive wages for thiose players?

[USMartin]

So he can't pick players and doesn't have a clue about tactics either.

So how exactly did he lead Arsenal to a finish in the top two every season from 1998-2005? How did he and his teams win three Premiership Titles, four FA Cups and two Doubles then?

Could it be that he had more money to invest in better players then?

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

What will you say if the new manager is Tony Adams and he starts on why we shouldn't spend more than we are or simply doesn't spend more than we are even if he talks the talk?

I'd bet my house that Tony Adams or ANY other Premier league manager that had the resources that Wenger has available, would not have Coco or Flappy at the club, let alone in the first team. That's why a new manager would be fantastic, regardless of who it is, because they would not have blind loyalty to Wenger's below average crap that he loves to populate the team with.

But what will you say if the new manager can't afford any better than what the current manager can? You're avoiding that. Otherwise what evidence do you have that the manager can in fact afford better abd that ckub will in fact pay competitive wages for thiose players?

For f**k's sake Martin - our wage bill is over £110 million per year. Only Man U / Chelsea / Citeh are higher and not by very much. The money is there but it is going out to all the wrong places.

The reason we keep falling short and getting turned over is because Arsene keeps on putting this shit in the team

Almunia
Fabianski
Clichy
Eboue
Bender
Diaby
Denil - - - - - SON!!
Vela

That lot are mid table at best - you just can't carry that many passangers in the Premier League and that is all Arsene's fault!!

[I Hate Hleb]

Listen Martin, much as I admire your tenacity you can't put everything on the shoulders of the Board!! No-one is saying that this team is anything like as strong as those before 2005 but the fact remains...

Wenger was the one that didn't make sure we had a good enough keeper;

Wenger is the one that doesn't ensure that we do extra defensive training;

Wenger is the one that hasn't brought in a good defensive coach;

Wenger is the one that picks the team, formation and tactics;

Wenger is the one that is supposed to tell the players what he expects from them - and that includes making sure the DM does the defensive work!!!;

Wenger is the one that delays substitutions when things aren't working until a pre-conceived time;

Wenger is the one that puts players in positions other than their favourite;

Wenger is the one that has left us with a badly balanced squad, with loads of the same types in one or two positions but other areas left thread-bare;

Wenger is the one that won't admit that certain players aren't good enough and never stops giving them chances;

Now let's say for the sake of argument that you're right that any new manager wouldn't get significant funds to strengthen the side - although I disagree as I feel that the Board would be under too much pressure that they'd be scared not to give the new man substantial funds - if the guy was anything like knowledgeable enough, he would/should be able to get sufficiently better results based solely on rectifying the weakness out-lined above.

They'd be no need for an experienced and quality manager to spend Man City type money to be able to guarantee that we didn't fall prey to the same old weaknesses over and over again. That's been the frustrating thing - Wenger's failure to address for the past few years obvious areas of weakness.

Now this isn't an excuse to let the Board off criticism; they have to take more than their share of responsibility. But it also doesn't mean Wenger should get the 'free pass' that you and others want to give him, purely because of the perception that the Board are depriving him of funds.

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

Wenger is the one that is supposed to tell the players what he expects from them - and that includes making sure the DM does the defensive work!!!;

I'm glad it's not just me that thinks that. I've tried not to slag Song off as his admirers always seem to want to bitch slap anyone's face that dare point out his weaknesses.

All day today he was bombing upfield with no thought for protecting the centre halves.

I swear he was a goldfish in a former life - once round the bowl and "Ooh I've forgotten where I should be playing and what I should be doing"

[USMartin]

For f**k's sake Martin - our wage bill is over £110 million per year. Only Man U / Chelsea / Citeh are higher and not by very much. The money is there but it is going out to all the wrong places.!

But that is because of a drastically revised wage structure. If you remember in 2004 our wage bill was about 30 million pounds smaller than it is now but we had two players - Thierry Henry and Sol Campbell on over 90 K week and Henry was at 110-120K a week Campbell at 90-100K a week. Today our highest wage earner is right at 90 K a week and only one player is on that wage as of last spring.

Curiously enough Arsene Wenger has never offically discussed this though Dan Fiszman has.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 12439.html

"Our wage bill is very similar to Manchester United and substantially above Liverpool's – it's substantially below Chelsea's but that's expected. We pay good salaries and pay them probably more evenly so we have less of the extremes. There is an ethos of a team effort." - Dan Fiszman

Bit odd that "team ethos" was unecessary when the very best Wenger Teams were assembled, or just a curious coincidence that it became essential at a time when chash flow became a problem because we didn't sell Highbury.

Also seems the wage structure is not down to the manager ultimtely

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... transcript

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... -questions

No I don't think that there is. With Arsène Wenger we have always gone along with his recommendations.


Um. no, not always

http://www.redaction.org.uk/downloads/r ... 062005.pdf

“We have concluded that what probably occurred was that DD said that he
would go back to the Board and that he and Arsene Wenger would
recommend £60K for AC and that the Board would probably approve.â€

[USMartin]

The reason we keep falling short and getting turned over is because Arsene keeps on putting this shit in the team

Almunia
Fabianski
Clichy
Eboue
Bender
Diaby
Denil - - - - - SON!!
Vela

That lot are mid table at best - you just can't carry that many passangers in the Premier League and that is all Arsene's fault!

I think the lack of willingness to pay high wages is down to the Board and it makes signing players of better quality difficult if not impossible.


I mean the same manager with more money for transfer fees at his disposal and a more reasoned wage structure also put into the team from 1998-2005

Lehmann
Manninger
Silvinho
Lauren
Wiltord
Vieira
Gilber.......to
Henry

And he even acknowldges the money is there but that our wage structure makes it harder to use it effectively

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-story


Arsène Wenger says only 10 players in the world are beyond his pocket…he has sufficient funds to bring almost anyone to Emirates Stadium.

“..There are only a few players who have a price which we cannot reach - maybe 10 in the world but, for the rest, we have access to the market.â€

[harryo63]

Wenger is the one that is supposed to tell the players what he expects from them - and that includes making sure the DM does the defensive work!!!;

I'm glad it's not just me that thinks that. I've tried not to slag Song off as his admirers always seem to want to bitch slap anyone's face that dare point out his weaknesses.

All day today he was bombing upfield with no thought for protecting the centre halves.

I swear he was a goldfish in a former life - once round the bowl and "Ooh I've forgotten where I should be playing and what I should be doing"

hes fucking shit and the main reason behind our last2 shit league performances

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

The reason we keep falling short and getting turned over is because Arsene keeps on putting this shit in the team

Almunia
Fabianski
Clichy
Eboue
Bender
Diaby
Denil - - - - - SON!!
Vela

That lot are mid table at best - you just can't carry that many passangers in the Premier League and that is all Arsene's fault!

I think the lack of willingness to pay high wages is down to the Board and it makes signing players of better quality difficult if not impossible.

The Arsenal manager claimed that he has a transfer kitty to fund new arrivals, but is unable to offer the wages demanded by the world’s top players.

And shouldn't all of that at least be a concern to us?

But Martin - he would have enough money to buy & pay decent players if he off-loaded the shit and re-directed their salaries to players that can actually contribute something!!

99.99999% of fans can see that Almunia / Bender / Denil - - - - SON / Diaby / Eboue / Fabianski / Vela are way below our standard and should be moved on. They are the reason that we're way off the pace.

Arsene could also improve on a few other areas, most notably defensive midfield and this would all be possible if he stopped being so stubborn.

The money is there but he keeps spending it on the wrong players and their enormous bloody contracts!

[USMartin]

Listen Martin, much as I admire your tenacity you can't put everything on the shoulders of the Board!! No-one is saying that this team is anything like as strong as those before 2005 but the fact remains...

Wenger was the one that didn't make sure we had a good enough keeper;

Wenger is the one that doesn't ensure that we do extra defensive training;

Wenger is the one that hasn't brought in a good defensive coach;

Wenger is the one that picks the team, formation and tactics;

Wenger is the one that is supposed to tell the players what he expects from them - and that includes making sure the DM does the defensive work!!!;

Wenger is the one that delays substitutions when things aren't working until a pre-conceived time;

Wenger is the one that puts players in positions other than their favourite;

Wenger is the one that has left us with a badly balanced squad, with loads of the same types in one or two positions but other areas left thread-bare;

Wenger is the one that won't admit that certain players aren't good enough and never stops giving them chances;.

You raise some terrific points herer. The problem is a lot of thses things were deficencies from 1998-2005 too. The difference was the level of talent he had at his disposal when he arrived and then recruited to the club over the 1998-2005 period often made those weaknesses seem less important or less impactful.

It's like the old basketball axiom "You can't coach height" sometimes you can only teach so much depending on what your players are capable of learning and executing(reminds of John Mckay being asked about his team's execution after a bad loss and answering "Yeah, I'm for it").

The simple truth is if you have the players we had from 2002-2004 your strengths will be highlighted further and your weaknesses minimized, where if you have the team we have had the last three years, your strengths may be overshadowed and your weaknesses exposed even more.

And if the diffference in those teams is how much money the Board has made available to the manager to assemble them that is a pretty significant role they have played, no?

[Spiral]

And if the diffference in those teams is how much money the Board has made available to the manager to assemble them that is a pretty significant role they have played, no?

While i agree that their is an element of truth to what you're saying , i still think that Wenger was not as hampered by lack of funds when it came to player purchases .
Do you guys think that it is a coincidence that we happen to have the lightest team in the EPL ? are small technical players much more cheaper ?
I think that it's more to it than Wenger waiting for certain players to come good, i think that he has assembled a team which he hopes will play a particular brand of football and i think it has backfired because some of them (players ) are not at the highest level.

[brazilianGOONER]

i won't quote hlebby's post as it is too long, but that's fucking brilliant, my fellow cannabis loving gooner

[flash gunner]

We're a one trick pony... If it works its beautiful, if it doesnt we are fucked and Wenger doesnt have a clue about tactics or substitutions in order to change things

Arsene knows? Bollocks Arsene knew

[USMartin]

Tony I know you're not absolving the Board. By the same token I am not giving the manager a free pass.

I just find that the facts don't support the case that Mr. Wenger has simply suddenly lost the plot or become incompetent.

I think not only are those claims incorrect but they are unfair. And if they did lead to his sacking or resignation but there was no changein the spending and team-building policies they would have proven futile and possibly leave us in as bad or an even worse position than we would be if the Board simply made the money available they had made available prior to 2005 as soon as possible.

What would be the point of sacking the manager but continued non-investment dropping us down to sixth or seventh in the League then?

I want this all fixed too. But not I want a real solution, not a fake solution.