HAS ANYONE CHANGED THEIR STANCE?

TeeCee · Post by **TeeCee** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:33 pm

I can't support a guy who I have zero faith in.

Wenger has managed to erode the pedestal he put himself on all those years ago. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, he can do to turn this around and I say that KNOWING that they guy is incapable of turning it around. If we were back in 2006 and the invincibles were a recent memory, I might have faith that after a couple of lean years he could turn things around.....but 6 years? Not a chance. I said a year ago Arsene Wenger will never win another trophy with Arsenal and I feel stronger about that now than I ever did.
The man is finished and it's all a matter now of how much damage the board let him do before replacing him.

I will continue to show support to the players on the pitch when I am there, but not Wenger.

terry henry · Post by **terry henry** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:36 pm

OOKed wrote:
On another hand, we need to get behind the team until next summer as there is no need to take it out on the players or on the new signings

This is the key point. I agree players like Jenkinson aren't really good enough (at least at this stage in their careers) to play for the Arsenal first team, but as long as they give their all I couldn't hold it against them. It is Wengers fault for putting them there in the first place though.

Irish Gooner · Post by **Irish Gooner** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:52 pm

Tbh on Jenkinson I think he will definitely be good enough in a few years time. He is a real defender in my opinion not like Comedy Eboue and he is a proper Gooner as well.

He is just very young and inexperienced, and the gross mismanagement which has allowed him to be hammered for the United match is not his fault but the managers.

I really think he is more than good enough for 2nd choice RB, I would say he is on a similar level to Gibbs just without any experience and needs time.

Percy Dalton · Post by **Percy Dalton** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:09 pm

I support the players and the club.

I will channel my efforts into supporting them as the moment he should have walked seems to have passed.

I would still be happy though if he left the club tomorrow. He has fucked up time and again and should not have this special protection that makes his job bomb proof.

frankbutcher · Post by **frankbutcher** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:21 pm

augie wrote:
LDB wrote:
frankbutcher wrote:
rigsby wrote:The wording is slightly odd. Of course if we went on and won the league everyone on here would back him. I'm willing to give Wenger another chance with these new signings, but certainly patience is wearing thin.

He has to do a lot to make up for the 8-2
You'd give him another chance if he got us relegated.

Wenger has dismantled this Club, brick by brick. We might look great on paper - Stadium, Training Ground, Profitable, Youth Development, but he's broken the bond with the fans and sold our soul down the river. I'd rather he'd never arrived. The trophies were great, but Arsenal FC will never be the same again.
How has wenger broken the bond between club and fan? I hate it when he patronises us and feeds us sausages and calls it caviar but if anything all hes doing is breaking the bond between manager and fan.

Any perception that the club is losing its soul is surely rooted more in sky and the expansion and commercialisation of football? Seems an odd thing to blame on the manager. By that token fergusmoan is responsible for the same thing at man yoo

I dont think it is straight forward as you think mate regarding the blaming of sky for all modern football issues and wenger is certainly culpable for some of the issues within our club -

Whether we like it or not most of us agree that wenger has our players living in a bubble. They are kept at arms length from the fans in an effort to protect them from any criticisms. For me all that has achieved is breaking a bond between the players and fans as it appears to put the players up on a pedastal where they have no appreciations of the commitment (both financially and in terms of time) that the fans show. The connection has now dropped so low that on many occasions a lot of our players dont even go over to our fans to show appreciation at away games and this is totally unacceptable to me and is something the manager should be hammering them over

The supporters love of the club is without equal of that there is no doubt. We do not expect the players to care as much as we do but we do expect them to show some respect and appreciation to be playing for a club as big as ours. Strolling around in tracksuits and wearing those wanky headphones when getting off the team bus shows a totally non plussed attitude to supporters like me. Dress in the club blazers, show a bit of class and understand how priviledged you are to be earning as much as you are whilst playing for a genuine big club and it will certainly go some way in earning the respect of the fans. This is another fault of wenger cos this is def his area of authority and I will guarantee that GG wouldnt allow his players to look so fcuking shabby whilst representing our club

Lastly, and this is the biggest issue, show some pride and passion whilst on the pitch. How many times last season did we see lamentable performances from our players ? At one stage wenger even went so far as to admit his players didnt seem "up for it" and I am sorry but that is down to you wenger. It is not enough to have the players put in big effort every few weeks or only for the big games and it really grates the fans to witness this apathy and to watch and hear wenger not only accept it but also defend these same players

Thanks Augie, you've saved me writing the response.

Wenger doesn't care about the fans, unless we're singing his name. He has fostered an attitude at the Club, where the players believe we are there to serve them, instead of the other way around. There is no passion, no effort, no blood and guts. It is all about aesthetics. The soul of the Club has been ripped out, to be replaced by a superficial "we play football the right way" mentality.

Whilst Arsenal used to ooze class. Now we just ooze arrogance.

Revgoon89 · Post by **Revgoon89** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:08 am

I can't trust Wenger again, but the new players have bought him some time. Although the fact it took an 8-2 defeat by the Mancs to force our hand is nothing short of annoying and it certainly doesn't make up for the shite we have endured for the last 6 years.

It's givem him some breathing space, till Janurary at the most and our performances in the next couple of league games and in the CL will tell if we have strengthed the side and will shape this new team. I'm pleased with the signings of Arteta and Mertesacker, just utterly stupid it took us so long to get that experience and quality we needed.

goonersid · Post by **goonersid** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:02 am

Looking at the growing injury list, results could continue to put pressure on Wenger. I think we are entering the most crucial period of Wenger's career, the next 5 or 6 games could see him with nowhere to turn.

Post by **flash gunner** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:08 am

goonersid wrote:Looking at the growing injury list, results could continue to put pressure on Wenger. I think we are entering the most crucial period of Wenger's career, the next 5 or 6 games could see him with nowhere to turn.

The 'teflon Don' will just blame injuries and everyone will lap it up, sorry Sid but he aint going anywhere for a long while mate

psychoangus · Post by **psychoangus** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:21 am

As long as we're in the Champion's League, all is rosy in the Wenger job security garden.

goonersid · Post by **goonersid** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:27 am

flash gunner wrote:
goonersid wrote:Looking at the growing injury list, results could continue to put pressure on Wenger. I think we are entering the most crucial period of Wenger's career, the next 5 or 6 games could see him with nowhere to turn.
The 'teflon Don' will just blame injuries and everyone will lap it up, sorry Sid but he aint going anywhere for a long while mate

I'm not so sure Flash, another humiliation, which could even come against the s***s and I think he would crumble under the media spotlight and growing discontent from the fans.
He looked a broken man after the utd game, and these signings are the last throw of the dice.
I still maintain he won't make the end of the season, if results go against him.

Post by **flash gunner** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:29 am

goonersid wrote:
flash gunner wrote:
goonersid wrote:Looking at the growing injury list, results could continue to put pressure on Wenger. I think we are entering the most crucial period of Wenger's career, the next 5 or 6 games could see him with nowhere to turn.
The 'teflon Don' will just blame injuries and everyone will lap it up, sorry Sid but he aint going anywhere for a long while mate
I'm not so sure Flash, another humiliation, which could even come against the s***s and I think he would crumble under the media spotlight and growing discontent from the fans.
He looked a broken man after the utd game, and these signings are the last throw of the dice.
I still maintain he won't make the end of the season, if results go against him.

If results go against us i hope youre right

skizz_b · Post by **skizz_b** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:26 am

Irish Gooner wrote:I'm trying to back the team as much as I can and will reassess in January.

I still think Wenger should go but I really think all the negativity now is hampering the team perform.

We really should be welcoming our new signings, and support them as that is what supporters do, support the club, players especially until there is some special reason not to eg Adebayor, Almunia, Nasri etc.

Sure after 200 games of Almunia fuck ups, we can c**t him off, but I feel really angry at the abuse certain new players are taking from some of our fans when they havent even played or got a chance.

Several players have commented on how our home fans are dreadful and make it harder, and I well believe it. These new players should be welcome with banners and songs, but what are the likes of Red Action doing to help that?

Fuck all as usual, they really have not helped matters over the years and I would say have been an abject failure, in A] remaining objective about the manager and B] actually making proper songs for players and improving the atmosphere which isnt hard.

This is exactly my opinion, no point criticizing at the moment when we've got five new players to try and gel into the team, all about positivity at the moment...at least until Christmas anyway

The 8-2 was shockingly shite but it needed to happen to kick him up the arse and make the signings. Now that we've had this international break it's back to supporting the team while in the ground and airing any grievances outside of it, rather than in the middle of a match which results in the inevitable "Arsenal crisis" headlines in the papers which don't help anyone.

Post by **DB10GOONER** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:27 am

I don't hate Wenger. I love the man for what he brought to the club in his first 8 years but since then it's been one disaster after another, he has lost the plot big time, he has repeatedly failed to address known issues with the team and his tactical stupidity and lack of a plan B of any sort are just fucking laughable.

So for me I still want him gone. But being a football fan I am also fickle as fuck and if he turned it round and won the CL or PL this season then I'd want him to stay and continue being successful.

It's not personal for me, I just want what's best for the team.

The problem is I cannot see him changing enough of what needs to be changed to be successful again and that is very sad.

Whoever said they wish he'd never come to us is being a bit silly tbh. The man won us TWO DOUBLES and an UNBEATEN PL and playing the best attacking football anyone has ever seen ffs. But that shouldn't grant him a eternal pass either.

For me, this season is about supporting the team, not Wenger. Club first, all else second.

Revgoon89 · Post by **Revgoon89** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:33 am

If anything, the people we should be backing are the players right now. Because a lot of them shouldn't have to deserve our disrespect when they are either being played out of position not to their full potential or have simply been thrown in the deep end because they are desperate. Felt so sorry for the likes of Jenkinson and Coquelin for having to endure Man Utd when it was clear it was a despertae move rather then a smart one.

Under a manger with better man-management and who is competant tactically they could reach their full potential. With the exception of Cole and Wilshere, our much touted youth academy has been utter shite.

cusamano · Post by **cusamano** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:20 pm

No, will never back him again, because he didnÂ´t make the right signings I presume.

HAS ANYONE CHANGED THEIR STANCE?

Have you changed your stance?