I am going to give some grace for a few days. Obviously rules are rules and it benefits this community that we do adhere to the decisions made for the health of what we all enjoy.
I am not going to anything but watch the birdie and allow others to make decisions based on their way of thinking. Leniency it won't be but fairness it will be.
As for being a new mod I need to understand the rules as well and appreciate that we are all in this together.
THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
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SammyDroppedHisShorts
- Posts: 5740
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:55 pm
- Location: In front of the best fans on earth. The Arse and all.
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flash gunner
- Posts: 29243
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:55 am
- Location: Armchairsville. FACT.
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
I dont think official warnings are needed straight off i deleted a swear word earlier pm'd the poster who thanked me for letting him know and as far as i can see he hasnt done it again, thats fair enough for the time being IMO, now i didnt see what happened with Percy so cant comment on that...
and augie again i agree there is no need to tone down the passion of a discussion where its going back and forth between 2 posters who disagree no one has been told to delete, warn or ban people who do that respectfully. The new rules arent hard to abide by and they dont make this place sterile either
and augie again i agree there is no need to tone down the passion of a discussion where its going back and forth between 2 posters who disagree no one has been told to delete, warn or ban people who do that respectfully. The new rules arent hard to abide by and they dont make this place sterile either
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
augie wrote:Rebs, I am sure we will all row in behind the new rules and do our best to keep things on the level here. However I will also ask that the mods and mike also show some patience and understanding with us mere mortals as we attempt to get used to adapt to the new rules and layout around here. From my own perspective I wont intend to undermine or moan but I might blow off some steam in the early stages as I come to terms with the no swearing so please accept my apologies in advance if it pisses ye off
augie all im asking is a bit of common sense from posters and from mods , i dont want us to be too sterile that people wont want to come on here but i also understand why there are new rules, just want the forum to be a success like it used to be,
now where did i put my tit thread
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supergeorgegraham
- Posts: 1297
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:19 am
- Location: Northampton
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
Good to have the forum back. I was bored with my own negative posts at times and lets be honest we have some massive topics to discuss.
Its just good to chat to fellow gooners regardless of viewpoints.
Its just good to chat to fellow gooners regardless of viewpoints.
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IW8Goalmachine
- Posts: 4555
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:15 am
- Location: Galway
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
Alright lads!
Great to be back!!!
Great to be back!!!
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
Thanks for the positive feedback about the new look forum. I know some people hate change so appreciate that it may not be to everyone's liking, but hopefully you'll all grow accustomed to it.
Thought I'd take the opportunity to respond to some of the comments which have been made and attempt to clarify the reasons behind them.
We want the forum to be enjoyed by as many Arsenal fans as possible and we therefore have to recognise that not everyone enjoys reading how so-and-so is a f****** c***. I think we all understand that if you're at a match, then you might have to accept that you have little control over hearing the views of the people in the vicinity, but on a public forum it's something which can be controlled.
I wouldn't advocate banning people for the occasional slip, but hopefully by issuing warnings, we can remind people what is tolerated and what's not, and over time it wil become the norm. There's a lot of excellent debate on the forum and I'd like to believe that Arsenal fans are an intelligent enough bunch to be able to make their point without needing swear.
What I will do later today is to increase the number of swear words which automatically get the asterisk treatment, so occasional slips shouldn't be an issue, but if you choose to find alternative methods of swearing, then don't be surprised if you're warned to stop.
No rules are set in stone, so I won't rule out the possibility of changing this, but for now I'd like to see how it goes.
And the ban on swearing is clearly mentioned in the rules, so you may want to re-read them:
"The Gooner2Gooner community is family friendly and therefore swearing and pornographic or distasteful imagery are not permitted in any section."
Rather than edit out all the material which falls outside the new rules, it just felt easier to lock the thread, especially as I do think it had run it's course.
In answer to whether someone would be allowed to start a similar thread now - absolutely, as long as it remained within the rules. We're not saying that criticism is banned, just that all views are heard and respect is maintained.
I had handled numerous comments and complaints over many months and I will admit that the thread about Wenger was the straw that broke the camels back, but I'd had my attention drawn to a number of comments on the site over the preceding weeks which were unpleasant to say the least and did Arsenal fans in general no favours.
As I've said elsewhere, it's at least in part my own fault for ignoring the forum for too long and not putting in place enough rules and enough moderators to ensure it didn't stray too far over the line. That's hopefully something we have now addressed.
We have a feature in the fanzine called "In the Away End" where David O'Brien visits forums of our opponents to see what they say about us in the days before and after we play them. I used to laugh at some of the comments which were made and thank my lucky stars that Arsenal fans showed more class and more intelligence than every other clubs fans. Then I realised that we had plenty of people who were just as bad and what was worse was that the site I was responsible for was promoting this image to the outside world. I want Arsenal fans to be respected for being better than everyone else and although I'm not daft enough to believe that the changes made here are going to dramatically alter the perception to the outside world, I don't want to be party to making things worse.
Of the remainder, just less than another 1000 had only made 20 posts or less, so I ignored them because they may have been for tickets or just people who had just dipped in and straight out.
That still leaves 3000 people who have at some stage posted on here more than 20 times which I accept is not very many in comparison to some of you, but still suggests to me that they had shown an interest in being part of the community. In the previous 12 months, only 800 of those had posted, and although I accept there may be numerous reasons why 2200 people had stopped posting, its nevertheless a trend which I think warrants attention.
After suspending the forum, I received as many messages from people who told me they used to visit it but stopped as I did from people who said they were current regulars and when was it going to come back.
I realise this isn't an especially scientific approach, but it surely suggests we weren't delivering an environment which all Arsenal fans enjoyed. If The Gooner was to see that dramatic a decline in sales, then it would either change or cease to exist (which incidentally would almost certainly mark the end of the forum anyway), so in my eyes the forum should be no different. Perhaps the changes will be for the worse and visitor numbers will descend still further, in which case I'll hold my hands up and say I got it wrong, but sitting on my hands doing nothing was not an option either as far as I was concerned.
It's worth mentioning that for people who access the forum in work places, it's now possible to block images from displaying via the User Control Panel which can be found in the menu bar at the top of the screen. Go to Board Preferences and Display Options to alter your settings. There's a number of other options in there as well which people might like to explore.
Also on the subject of The Cannonballs section - this is our virtual pub and should be used for topics away from football which may not be of interest to everyone. Although it's the replacement section for The Basement, I've given it a higher profile as it's second on the list now and we've got some ideas to encourage it's use more which I'll share in the coming weeks.
OK, if anyone has managed to read all of that without falling asleep, I'm impressed. One of the reasons I gave for giving the forum another chance was because I hadn't given it the time it deserved over the last few years and therefore would have felt bad. I hope the forum can thrive in it's new format, but if it fails now - for whatever reason -then at last I'll be able to say I tried.
Cheers
Mike
Thought I'd take the opportunity to respond to some of the comments which have been made and attempt to clarify the reasons behind them.
We decided not to include signatures because it's additional work to police them and we felt the threads looked tidier without them. It may be something we reconsider in the future, but I'll need to be persuaded as to the benefits first.armchair supporter wrote:Wheres the sigs?
augie wrote:I am sure we will all row in behind the new rules and do our best to keep things on the level here. However I will also ask that the mods and mike also show some patience and understanding with us mere mortals as we attempt to get used to adapt to the new rules and layout around here. From my own perspective I wont intend to undermine or moan but I might blow off some steam in the early stages as I come to terms with the no swearing so please accept my apologies in advance
The no swearing rule is probably the most contentious of the changes and I completely understand the reasons why. However, it's very hard to write a rule which allows swearing in moderation because then it becomes discretionary as to what's "in moderation" and what's over-stepping the mark. If I felt everyone could apply common sense to what they posted then there would be no need for rules or moderators, but as was evident before I suspended the forum, common sense is not something everyone can grasp.Dan_85 wrote:Have to say I agree with frank here. No swearing? Really?! Aside from the fact that it doesn't even state that we can't swear in the "forum rules" topic, I liked the fact that we had a laugh & this place was fairly liberal with swearing, tits etc unlike all the other sanitised Arsenal forums. So what words are & aren't acceptable? We're gonna get a ticking off for dropping a f-bomb? Like being back at school...
We want the forum to be enjoyed by as many Arsenal fans as possible and we therefore have to recognise that not everyone enjoys reading how so-and-so is a f****** c***. I think we all understand that if you're at a match, then you might have to accept that you have little control over hearing the views of the people in the vicinity, but on a public forum it's something which can be controlled.
I wouldn't advocate banning people for the occasional slip, but hopefully by issuing warnings, we can remind people what is tolerated and what's not, and over time it wil become the norm. There's a lot of excellent debate on the forum and I'd like to believe that Arsenal fans are an intelligent enough bunch to be able to make their point without needing swear.
What I will do later today is to increase the number of swear words which automatically get the asterisk treatment, so occasional slips shouldn't be an issue, but if you choose to find alternative methods of swearing, then don't be surprised if you're warned to stop.
No rules are set in stone, so I won't rule out the possibility of changing this, but for now I'd like to see how it goes.
And the ban on swearing is clearly mentioned in the rules, so you may want to re-read them:
"The Gooner2Gooner community is family friendly and therefore swearing and pornographic or distasteful imagery are not permitted in any section."
As I said on the banner thread just before it was locked, this was one which had caused me no end of grief over the last few months. I have absolutely no issue with people expressing their views about the manager, players, owner, Gooner contributors and fans as long as it's done in a respectful manner. The banner, whilst not necessarily a view I personally agree with, was done respectfully as far as I'm concerned, but the same cannot be said of some of the posts which followed.Cockerill's chin wrote:I've missed this place but have a few misgivings when I see the banner page locked. I understand that the thread had more than run its course but a key thing for me is; if that thread had never been posted would it be allowed up now? If not, would a banner thread saying "AW knows" be allowed? Is this place going to try to distance itself from any active critique, even if it remains polite?
The insults overstepped the mark on the OG but the sentiments behind the banner didn't.
Rather than edit out all the material which falls outside the new rules, it just felt easier to lock the thread, especially as I do think it had run it's course.
In answer to whether someone would be allowed to start a similar thread now - absolutely, as long as it remained within the rules. We're not saying that criticism is banned, just that all views are heard and respect is maintained.
This will hopefully be unlocked later today. I just need to draft the new rules for that section, which are intended to benefit people who contribute to the forum over those who just use it for tickets.Rosie_titters wrote:Nice to have the forum back - one quick question - Why is the Arsenal Marketplace locked - it's one of the best features on the old site - being able to buy tickets from fellow gooners
Firstly, let's nail this one once and for all - it was not the fact that REDaction commented about the Wenger thread and we were not put under pressure by anyone to suspend the forum. What people don't appreciate is how the forum is an extension of The Gooner website and therefore people have a tendency to associate anyone involved in The Gooner - myself, the editor, contributors and sellers - with some of the views which get expressed on here. That's nuts of course, but it is the fact of the matter. I've been doing The Gooner for nearly 25 years and have got used to the fact that people won't agree with everything that is written, but when you start getting threats of physical violence, I don't think it's unreasonable to be a little concerned.northbankbren wrote:Now the actual reason for the forum being closed down im not 100% about, but from what i've heard about, im worried.
A certain supporters group complained about a certain thread, and that was it.
A name which Wenger was called openely on this forum for years by most, all of a sudden was too far.
I had handled numerous comments and complaints over many months and I will admit that the thread about Wenger was the straw that broke the camels back, but I'd had my attention drawn to a number of comments on the site over the preceding weeks which were unpleasant to say the least and did Arsenal fans in general no favours.
As I've said elsewhere, it's at least in part my own fault for ignoring the forum for too long and not putting in place enough rules and enough moderators to ensure it didn't stray too far over the line. That's hopefully something we have now addressed.
We have a feature in the fanzine called "In the Away End" where David O'Brien visits forums of our opponents to see what they say about us in the days before and after we play them. I used to laugh at some of the comments which were made and thank my lucky stars that Arsenal fans showed more class and more intelligence than every other clubs fans. Then I realised that we had plenty of people who were just as bad and what was worse was that the site I was responsible for was promoting this image to the outside world. I want Arsenal fans to be respected for being better than everyone else and although I'm not daft enough to believe that the changes made here are going to dramatically alter the perception to the outside world, I don't want to be party to making things worse.
When I suspended the forum, I took a look at some of the statistics which were available - something I hadn't done for a long time. We had close to 5000 registered members. About 1000 of those accounts were dormant and had never been used and we've inactivated them as part of the switchover.augie wrote:
According to mike there have been many complaints from people who used to frequent this forum but no longer feel like doing so and I would love to know who and how many there are. I have been a member on here for nigh on 5 years now and I would estimate that I could count on 2 hands how many good regular posters have left here in that time.
Of the remainder, just less than another 1000 had only made 20 posts or less, so I ignored them because they may have been for tickets or just people who had just dipped in and straight out.
That still leaves 3000 people who have at some stage posted on here more than 20 times which I accept is not very many in comparison to some of you, but still suggests to me that they had shown an interest in being part of the community. In the previous 12 months, only 800 of those had posted, and although I accept there may be numerous reasons why 2200 people had stopped posting, its nevertheless a trend which I think warrants attention.
After suspending the forum, I received as many messages from people who told me they used to visit it but stopped as I did from people who said they were current regulars and when was it going to come back.
I realise this isn't an especially scientific approach, but it surely suggests we weren't delivering an environment which all Arsenal fans enjoyed. If The Gooner was to see that dramatic a decline in sales, then it would either change or cease to exist (which incidentally would almost certainly mark the end of the forum anyway), so in my eyes the forum should be no different. Perhaps the changes will be for the worse and visitor numbers will descend still further, in which case I'll hold my hands up and say I got it wrong, but sitting on my hands doing nothing was not an option either as far as I was concerned.
This seems to be a reoccuring question for some reason! The answer essentially is yes, although they MUST be restricted to The Cannoballs. Although we have completely banned all pornographic or distasteful imagery, the guidance I've given the moderators is that photos which you'd see in mainstream daily UK newspapers (which aren't pixalated) are OK.Are tit threads still allowed?
It's worth mentioning that for people who access the forum in work places, it's now possible to block images from displaying via the User Control Panel which can be found in the menu bar at the top of the screen. Go to Board Preferences and Display Options to alter your settings. There's a number of other options in there as well which people might like to explore.
Also on the subject of The Cannonballs section - this is our virtual pub and should be used for topics away from football which may not be of interest to everyone. Although it's the replacement section for The Basement, I've given it a higher profile as it's second on the list now and we've got some ideas to encourage it's use more which I'll share in the coming weeks.
OK, if anyone has managed to read all of that without falling asleep, I'm impressed. One of the reasons I gave for giving the forum another chance was because I hadn't given it the time it deserved over the last few years and therefore would have felt bad. I hope the forum can thrive in it's new format, but if it fails now - for whatever reason -then at last I'll be able to say I tried.
Cheers
Mike
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Arsenal Till I Die
- Posts: 5258
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 6:06 pm
- Location: North London
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
Oh, finally.
That is all I have to say. :/
That is all I have to say. :/
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Rosie_titters
- Posts: 5491
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:06 pm
- Location: Aberystwyth
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
bit over the top with the no swearing rule - it wasn't the swearing that was wrong - it was the tone of it towards other forum members and our great leader. due to lack of MODS, alot of threads and comments weren't removed quick enough and it became a petty squabble
i always thought this message board was meant to be a laugh with ya mates, down your local. not a day out in a day centre with old fuddie duddies
i always thought this message board was meant to be a laugh with ya mates, down your local. not a day out in a day centre with old fuddie duddies
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
Couldn't you just put word filters on the swearing? And most forum tools allow to change swear words into more appropriate things? F**k becomes Gently Caress for example. S**t becomes Poo Poo. While I think the swearing rule should be relaxed, there are always work arounds in place to satisfy everyone.
I know it sounds childish, but at least then people can swear to their hearts content and not have to worry about editing their posts. I don't know if any of you have heard of the Something Awful forums but they have such a system on place and it gets by pretty well.
I know it sounds childish, but at least then people can swear to their hearts content and not have to worry about editing their posts. I don't know if any of you have heard of the Something Awful forums but they have such a system on place and it gets by pretty well.
Last edited by Revgoon89 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SammyDroppedHisShorts
- Posts: 5740
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:55 pm
- Location: In front of the best fans on earth. The Arse and all.
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
Mind you I think we'd all be lynched if anyone zapped your avatarRosie_titters wrote:bit over the top with the no swearing rule - it wasn't the swearing that was wrong - it was the tone of it towards other forum members and our great leader. due to lack of MODS, alot of threads and comments weren't removed quick enough and it became a petty squabble
i always thought this message board was meant to be a laugh with ya mates, down your local. not a day out in a day centre with old fuddie duddies
love it sooooooooooooo much...-
Rosie_titters
- Posts: 5491
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:06 pm
- Location: Aberystwyth
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
SammyDroppedHisShorts wrote:Mind you I think we'd all be lynched if anyone zapped your avatarRosie_titters wrote:bit over the top with the no swearing rule - it wasn't the swearing that was wrong - it was the tone of it towards other forum members and our great leader. due to lack of MODS, alot of threads and comments weren't removed quick enough and it became a petty squabble
i always thought this message board was meant to be a laugh with ya mates, down your local. not a day out in a day centre with old fuddie duddies
LOL, why do you think i post every couple of minutes
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SammyDroppedHisShorts
- Posts: 5740
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:55 pm
- Location: In front of the best fans on earth. The Arse and all.
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
I might give you warnings for not posting enough man.......more more
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benglenton
- Posts: 966
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:32 pm
- Location: italy
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
can i write in italian language now that forum is changed? always wanted this!
only joking,i'm very glad to come back to read old friends posts
thank you all
only joking,i'm very glad to come back to read old friends posts
thank you all
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frankbutcher
- Posts: 3857
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:07 pm
- Location: Arsenal's Treatment Room
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
How about teaching us some Italian swear words?benglenton wrote:can i write in italian language now that forum is changed? always wanted this!
only joking,i'm very glad to come back to read old friends posts
thank you all
Re: THE FORUM AS IT IS NOW
The swearing rule is a joke tbf- fair enough change the f word to f*** if you must but football is a working class sport, people swear when discussing it. I can honestly say that anyone who objects so much to swearing that they can't stand to read it doesn't deserve to support a football club and is symptomatic of everything that is wrong with the sport. Bans for swearing? Haway man, get owed yerselves!
