Do you agree with the ticket prices at the emirates?

[Rosicky's Right Boot]

I'd like to echo what has already been said, I do understand and welcome the club's attempt to become debt free as soon as possible and so in that respect high ticket prices are somewhat justifiable, but any water that argument holds evaporates when you take into account the ridiculous wages paid to fringe players.

[augie]

But havent we been told that the mortgage is structured in such a way that it cannot be paid off early ? If that is the case then even though the repayments are being met the club is hoarding money with no justifiable explaination

[SteveO 35]

The ticket prices themselves, in isolation, are not necessarily a problem. Fans forever want to sign top players, keep their best ones on bumper contracts etc.....and then expect to be able to get in for ten quid. The maths simply don't work

Where the majority of us I feel have a problem, is the misalignment of ticket prices with the ambition of the club. When all of the stadium plans were gathering pace in 2004, the club were riding high, challenging on all fronts and the club wanted everyone to get behind their vision of the future - namely for Arsenal to take that next step and challenge Europe's elite clubs. If you polled the fans back then, would they be prepared to pay an extra 10%-20% for their tickets, I'm sure the vote would have been an overwhelming yes.

Since then however, the club's main commercial big-thinkers left the club, we had the ridiculous 'lock-down' agreement between equal non-controlling shareholders that took the club backwards by 3 years or so, culminating with Kroenke running the club on a 'for cash' basis since the takeover. That is not what fans signed up for when shelling out £60+ for category A games, watching players who would struggle to be third or fourth choice in 2004 suddenly playing 40 games a year and getting rolled over by Man United and the major European clubs

In any company or organisation, mismanaging your customers expectations is fatal. Arsenal will find out the hard way if they drop out of the CL places and its coming ever closer

[Red Member]

Some good points steveo

the board are currently holding the club back. It is therefore remarkable that we are 3rd in the league still.
this is why Kroenke loves Wenger so much - he can get away with doing nothing because Wenger over achieves each season.

as far as ticket prices are concerned I take this view
1) dont attend category A PL games - I never have since the move to the Emirates. They are totally overpriced and they are all on TV anyway. Who got good value for money on Saturday?
2) attend Carling Cup games. To see Arsenal play in the best stadium in England for £10 is a real bargain
3) try and get a ticket for the lower tier - better view, better prices. Just get the away support moved to the upper tier.
why should long term season ticket holders have to sit in the upper tier?

Season tickets is something I dont know about but my own view given the current board is that nobody should renew these so as not to give Kroenke what he wants - which is money upfront. I am not saying dont go to games - just go to them on a silver or red membership, but I am also aware of reasons why people dont want to do this.

[highburyJD]

i don't see not renewing as really an option, I'm sure there are football fans all over Britain in pretty much the same boat
we need govt protection from price gouging
not gonna happen is it...?

[Red Member]

how high would season tickets have to be for you not to renew then?

£2000? £3000? there will come a point at which people will say no - that point has not been reached for a lot of people though it seems.

[highburyJD]

it's not really a fair comparison - some people just have more disposable income than others
the fact I could find the money to pay more doesn't make a price change reasonable or even a good idea

[Red Member]

since when has fairness come into the cost of football games?
a lot of people are already priced out of going to Arsenal - this will only increase and in fact Stan Kroenke will be quite happy to see richer people buy tickets than regular supporters as they will spend more on food and in the club shop.

[Dan_85]

how high would season tickets have to be for you not to renew then?

£2000? £3000? there will come a point at which people will say no - that point has not been reached for a lot of people though it seems.

I genuinely think a fuckload of people would still renew if their STs were £5k. "Oh, they've got us by the balls."

Football supporters in England could do with growing a spine...

[Red Member]

how high would season tickets have to be for you not to renew then?

£2000? £3000? there will come a point at which people will say no - that point has not been reached for a lot of people though it seems.

I genuinely think a fuckload of people would still renew if their STs were £5k. "Oh, they've got us by the balls."

Football supporters in England could do with growing a spine...

I hope Stan Kroneke doesnt read that

[highburyJD]

ARSENAL TICKETING POLICIES REPORT – 2011/2012 SEASON
AISA has met with the Club several times during the 2011-12 season to discuss ticketing policies and our proposals for reform and change which have been formulated and discussed over the last couple of years, following consultation with AISA members and supporters in general.
Work on ticketing issues has been a regular and consistent activity for AISA. More information about recent work can be found on the AISA website, including the AISA 10-point plan at http:// www.arsenalindependent.co.uk/campaigns?id=799
What follows is a report of some of the discussions that have taken place this season. In some cases substantial progress has been made, and the Club have reacted positively to proposals that AISA has put forward. On other issues we have yet to convince the Club to act.
AISA recognises that the Club needs to maximise its income from ticketing to help achieve long- term stability and success. Indeed this was one of the primary reasons why AISA campaigned so vigorously in support of the new stadium, and the move from Highbury. Every fan wants to see Arsenal achieve success and long-term stability. Pricing and loyalty issues are crucial elements in ensuring that the Club recruits new fans and retains existing supporters.
Access to live football for all Arsenal fans is an aspiration we vigorously promote ands hope we share with the Club. It needs to be recognised that over a short period of time Arsenal ticketing prices have been transformed from amongst the cheapest at the top level to the most expensive. Given a larger stadium and the managerial ethos of the Club, we believe Arsenal’s ticketing policies need to more demonstrably show that they value the support of everyone who wants to support our team. The philosophy of the Club over the years has been to take the long view but it sometimes seems that this has been lost in the many changes over the last six years.
The main items:discussed by AISA with the Club over the last few months are:
1) SEASON TICKET PRICES 2) STAGED PAYMENT SCHEME 3) LOWER (& HIGHER) TICKET PRICES FOR INDIVIDUAL MATCHES 4) LOCATION OF AWAY FANS 5) SEASON TICKET DISCOUNT 6) ADDITIONAL SEASON TICKET BENEFITS / ALTERNATIVES 7) TICKET EXCHANGE PRICE REDUCTIONS FOR SENIORS WITH SEASON-TICKETS 9) AWAY MATCH SCREENINGS 10) AWAY SEASON TICKETS 11) ONE-OFF DECISIONS
1) SEASON TICKET PRICES
We called for a price freeze for all season-ticket holders. The club agreed to a freeze for all gold members (upper and lower tier) but a 2% increase for all platinum members (club level).
We asked the Club about their plans if qualification is not achieved for the Champions League this season or indeed in the future. For obvious reasons this is an extremely sensitive subject but clearly the Club will prepare for all eventualities. It was noted that this is not a new issue e.g. in the 2005-06 season Arsenal only achieved qualification on the final day this season – the difference this season was the poor start to the season and more fans believing that we may not qualify.
We followed up our proposals that there be earlier notification of prices for the following season and earlier despatch of the renewal letter to season-ticket holders. This has been partly achieved, and an email from the Club will be sent out over the next few days, with further information when next season’s picture is clearer.
Club are moving towards rationalisation of Club Level pricing to be at 3 levels, rather than the current 4. We expressed the view that the third and fourth levels should be merged at the level of the lower price rather than higher.
2) STAGED PAYMENT SCHEME
We have continued to press for the introduction of a staged payment scheme that will enable season-ticket holders to make payment over a period of several months. The Club has highlighted practical problems but we believe that all the points they have put forward have been answered. At the most recent meeting with the Club the discussion therefore moved on to the principle of having such a scheme.
The Club argues that provision by other clubs, including many Premier League clubs and direct competitors, is solely motivated by their need to sell more season-tickets and that Arsenal is in a much healthier position with a substantial waiting list for season-tickets.
AISA believes that the Club should not take a short-term market driven position on this issue, and should consider developing plans that will enable all season-ticket holders to retain their tickets, especially in an economic climate where many people have to make decisions about what items of expenditure they have to cut.
It is in the interests of the Club for them to ensure that they retain the most loyal and long-term supporters, many of whom have a lower disposable income than average. AISA will continue to make the case for action on this issue, and to ensure that all sections of the community can attend matches at The Emirates Stadium.
3) LOWER (& HIGHER) TICKET PRICES FOR INDIVIDUAL MATCHES
We discussed proposals for more categories to be introduced next season. Our expectation is that this would result in the achievement of AISA’s campaign (since 2006) of there being adult prices below £30. More categories for Premier League matches could mean lower prices for some matches but higher prices for the five or six biggest matches of the season.
The progressive and extremely popular Carling Cup policy will not be affected by any changes that are brought in.
4) RELOCATION OF AWAY FANS
This proposal is not being implemented at this time, on grounds of cost, although it seems to have significant support within the Club. Moving the away fans section to the Upper Tier was first raised during the first season at The Emirates Stadium, when AISA presented a detailed review of fans comments to the Club. Over the last five years progress has been made on some other issues that can be seen as broadly similar (e.g. the naming of different parts of the stadium). Given the pricing structure at the stadium, and also atmosphere-related issues, AISA believes it makes sense that seats for which there is greatest demand to be allocated to Arsenal supporters. It was noted at our most recent meeting that changes have taken place at other clubs, and work will continue on this matter.
5) SEASON TICKET DISCOUNT
AISA has been calling for a greater discount and we believe that the recent changes will be reversed in line with AISA’s recommendations. The discount at Highbury, which was already very low at 3.4%, had been reduced to 2.1% since the move, but will now be increased. The exact discount will only be clear when all ticket prices are announced, but will be a step towards our proposal of a 10% discount. Even this figure is way below what most football clubs offer.
6) ADDITIONAL SEASON TICKET BENEFITS / ALTERNATIVES
The Club are not prepared to consider the option of removing cup options from season ticket, the so-called season-ticket lite. They have looked at the option of cheaper season tickets that exclude category A matches but suspect little demand. We suggested as an alternative that the Club provide a guarantee through the Ticket Exchange Scheme for category A matches, as demand for these is so high.
The Club are now considering AISA’s family proposal to allow season ticket holders to (at least once a season) purchase (say) 4 tickets together for a match, including 2 at half-price for under- 18s.
The Club have accepted the argument of offering a loyalty reward for season-ticket holders who attend every (or most) matches (or put their ticket on Ticket Exchange). The most likely option appears to relate to a benefit regarding cup final tickets. AISA welcomes this progress but feels that this may not be the best option. It is a complicated discussion but the broad principle that we would prefer is that some season-ticket holders definitely receive a reward and that the scheme incentivises for the whole season, rather than part of it.
7) TICKET EXCHANGE
The Club expect to introduce changes that will provide a better scheme and make the ticket exchange significantly easier to navigate. AISA continues to stress that many season-ticket holders find the Ticket Exchange difficult to use. Amongst the possibilities are the introduction of a friends system, which will effectively cater for all the informal groups that currently exist.
The Club are considering the AISA proposal of giving entitlement to platinum and gold members to use the Exchange, possibly limited to some areas only. In particular it seems ridiculous to us that there are often platinum members who wish to purchase additional seats in Club Level but they are currently unable to do so. With prices ranging from £95.50 to over £250 these seats are not of interest to most red and silver members, who are currently the only people able to purchase them on the Exchange. We have also raised issues relating to community and charity use of empty seats and hope to make progress in this area.
In general terms the Club agree that the objective should be to allow use of the Exchange up to and including the day of the match. Other points that members have raised recently relate to the cost of the scheme, and that payment is not received until the start of the following season; AISA will propose that this is changed to the following month.
7) PRICE REDUCTIONS FOR SENIORS WITH SEASON-TICKETS
This issue is consistently raised with us, especially by members who are forced to chose between a reduction in price by moving to the Family Enclosure, or sitting with friends and family. AISA recognises that clearly there cannot be a universal entitlement but is disappointed that no progress at all has been made. We believe that the Club should adopt a more sympathetic view to supporters who face a considerable drop in income, and we continue to explore alternatives.
9) AWAY MATCH SCREENINGS
This issue was raised by AISA last season and the Club have implemented changes, with reduced price tickets for juveniles.
10) AWAY SEASON TICKETS
Having accepted in principle our proposal that that there should be greater recognition of away season-ticket holders the Club are currently still examining the proposal to introduce a package of benefits.
11) ONE-OFF DECISIONS
Our complaint that some fans had their credit removed for the Manchester United away match has been acted on, and the Club have promised that every supporter who purchased a ticket will receive a credit for the match.
For further information on any aspect of this paper, or any ticketing policy related matter please contact AISA at [email protected] or call 07706 885078.

[SteveO 35]

how high would season tickets have to be for you not to renew then?

£2000? £3000? there will come a point at which people will say no - that point has not been reached for a lot of people though it seems.

I genuinely think a fuckload of people would still renew if their STs were £5k. "Oh, they've got us by the balls."

Football supporters in England could do with growing a spine...

Its the British way. Sit in a restaurant, moan throughout the meal about it and then when the waiter brings over the £150 bill and asks if everything was OK, smile and say "yes, absolutely fine thankyou"

Ivan is the equivalent of the smarmy waiter, its just that he asks for a bigger cheque

[Dan_85]

how high would season tickets have to be for you not to renew then?

£2000? £3000? there will come a point at which people will say no - that point has not been reached for a lot of people though it seems.

I genuinely think a fuckload of people would still renew if their STs were £5k. "Oh, they've got us by the balls."

Football supporters in England could do with growing a spine...

Its the British way. Sit in a restaurant, moan throughout the meal about it and then when the waiter brings over the £150 bill and asks if everything was OK, smile and say "yes, absolutely fine thankyou"

Ivan is the equivalent of the smarmy waiter, its just that he asks for a bigger cheque

Exactly.

Do you want to riot mate? I'll bring a megaphone...

[stg]

I wonder how much it costs to run Arsenal football club for one week...

All Players wages
All Staff wages
All stadium costs(lighting etc)
All training ground costs
All transport costs
Police costs
Reserve/youth costs
match day costs(programs etc)

[Chips and Chocolate]

Apparently the club are likely to introduce a new price structure next season (Category A, B and C). Read a post of someone who attended AST's AGM at http://susd.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/f ... 60&posts=3 :

Last night I attended the AGM of the Arsenal Supporters Trust (AST). One of the topics that came up (as I'm told it regularly does) was that of ticket pricing.

It was reported by a senior trust member, who I have no reason to believe is not telling the truth, that Arsenal will be reviewing their ticket price structure for the 2012/13 season. I will first describe the change, and then outline my reasoning for why I think the change is a net negative for football fans.

Currently Arsenal have a 'category' ticketing system, with so called 'category B' games being priced between £35 and £70 for regular general admission seats; and so called 'category A' matches priced between £51 and £100 (supporters of the Manchesters, Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool and opponents in the later stages of the Champions League get the honour of paying more). Basically the system is based on the sound reasoning that matches against bigger teams are more desirable hence greater demand hence Arsenal can make a few extra nicker out of these games, which is our raison d'etre these days so it's all well and good.

Away fans currently sit in the 'cheap' seats and so are charged £35 or £50 based on who they support, much to the chagrin of many home fans who want them moved into the upper tier so they have to pay more. So count yourself lucky away fans because you're staying in the lower tier next year (this is the bit where you go 'yay!') and will continue to pay the lowest possible prices at The Spacebowl next year (this is the bit where you fistpump hard so hard you smash your monitor!)

The system will however be subject to a big change. Arsenal will now price matches in 3 different categories based on the marketability of the opposition: A, B and C. Don't know whose getting the privilege of being deemed unattractive enough to be category C, probably Bolton, no f**ker likes Bolton, the ugly fag hag of the league (no offence Bolton...ah who am I kidding I'm being offensive, and I hope you feel offended, because otherwise I will have failed in my goal to offend you). But I think it's fair to say the usual suspects will be category A; Man United and the like who tart their teams up like gals on the game in attempts to score, and win honours and the like. You're sexy and you know it, you're category A darlings, I want to blow all my money on you!

The upshot of the above change and all of the mostly irrelevant sexual imagery is that supporters of teams such as Bolton will pay circa £30 to watch their team play Arsenal; whereas supporters of Man United will be expected to pay around £70 to watch their team play Arsenal. This will allow Arsenal to announce a headline price freeze on season tickets (for which we must be eternally grateful, apparently, because after all they didn't go up!) as the cost will average out over a season. So that's the changes, now here's why I don't like them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I've thought long and hard about why I disagree with this structure and the category system in general. Initially I was going to argue that it is unfair to the supporters of teams that are successful, but then as I was doing so I felt that the argument wasn't really based on anything rational. It's an argument that suffers the fallacy of begging the question, taking the line of 'supporters of big teams shouldn't have to pay more...because it's unfair'. It's kind of an appeal to pity as well, didn't really stand up against the cold-hearted economic arguments in favour of the category system.

The main argument that I have instead used against it is that supporters of big teams are not just paying to watch the match they have paid for, which is grossly unreasonable given the product is an admit one for the stated match on the ticket. I deduce from the category pricing system that fans of Manchester United and other clubs of that ilk will not only be paying to watch their team play Arsenal, he will also pay extra to subsidise those fans of Bolton and the like who want to watch their team play Arsenal (and to the same extent Arsenal supporters who pay to watch their team play Bolton but not Man United etc etc). This of course already happens with fans of big clubs under current category systems, and basically amounts to out and out extortion of fans of big teams. Thus category ticket pricing systems amount to stealth taxes and hidden charges on supporters of teams in greater demand, that they have not explicitly agreed to pay for. This makes the system highly undesirable for us as supporters.

The second argument I have against the category pricing system is that it fails to reflect the inherent time bias that the season places on the importance of games. This bias massively distorts the demand for these games away from any kind of expectation. Games towards the end of a season will take on different value to those at the start. Either your team will have something to play for and those games will have more demand, the opposition will not or only negligibly affect demand (i.e. if Arsenal were playing a home game in which we could win the league, the home end would sell out with huge demand whether we were playing Man United or Wigan); Or they will have very little to play for and the demand for games will be lower than at the start of the season. Either way this demand will be dictated by the performances of the home team, not the nature of the opposition, and thus exposes a flaw in the category system.

The points raised above express why I disagree with the concept of category ticket pricing in football; they amount to extortion of supporters of more weighty clubs, and fail to reflect season-based time bias in their analysis of ticket demand. If you've made it this far, congratulations, I gave up 3 paragraphs ago, and it probably shows. Buy yourself something extravagant as a reward, maybe a ticket to a category A game...

Read more: http://susd.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/f ... z1sxRkREI7