Apportioning Blame

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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Vinny1967
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Re: Apportioning Blame

Post by Vinny1967 »

OneBardGooner wrote: Any respect and affection that Arsene Wenger once had is gone, gradually eroded by his continual failures as a manager, he often speaks about 'honouring' his contract, being a man of his word, well if he is a man of honour and has any respect for Arsenal and the fans - he should walk, Gazidis should be sacked, bring David Dein back to oversee transfer and contracts, Peter Hill-Wood should retire, Kroenke needs to get off his derriere and invest in world class players and Usmanov should be given a place on the board and the opportunity to invest in players.

Apologies for the length of this, but I have had enough.
Hi Bard, I enjoyed reading that thanks :cheers:

goonerwalker
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Re: Apportioning Blame

Post by goonerwalker »

Kroenke, typifies the cold blooded business our club has become.

officepest
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Re: Apportioning Blame

Post by officepest »

Take a bow OBG, bravo.

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QuartzGooner
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Re: Apportioning Blame

Post by QuartzGooner »

1989 wrote:
Gunnersaurus wrote:Why is Dein seen as a God?

If he loved the club so much he would put his son over his knee.
DD's son has apparently been instrumental in moving all of Henry, Clichy, Cesc, Nasri, Adebayor and soon to be RVP out of the club.

Wonder who his next target will be.......Wilshere?? :?
Sorry but your post is something I really disagree with.

First of all these players are not small children to be easily manipulated.
If they want to leave they have the final decision.

Secondly the tax rate went up to 50% for high earners, and like it or not players like money.

Thirdly, look at each player in turn.

Henry was slowing down, had just split from his wife, and fancied a change of scenery knowing he was less potent in the English game than he was before.
He also knew that the reduced frequency of having a proper support man was weakening his game.

Clichy was "sold" by us. He was a defensive liability and the club offered him poor contract terms to force him out.

Cesc was always going to go back to Barcelona at some point.

Nasri wanted cash and trophies, City offered both.

Adebayor? A problem wherever he goes.


ONEBARD

Very very good post, a Forum classic.

A lot of "blame" is attributable to other clubs being owned by very rich men who throw money at them.

The rest of the blame is a mixture of most of what you highlight.

armchair
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Re: Apportioning Blame

Post by armchair »

Its all Wengers fault mate.
He was ballsing up this club long before Kronke at al ever heard of the Arsenal.

Hes the one they're listening to about ffp etc. (Although its probably music to their ears)
Anybody with a shred of self respect would have walked long, long ago after such a long period of abject failure, losing key players to bitter rivals, record breaking defeats, tactical ineptitude etc, etc... the fukin list goes on.

Wenger is the cancer that has spread to the board and they have accepted his project (which he had in place before they arrived ffs) cause it suits everybody. Everybody except us - the fans who line their pockets.

This man has waaaay too much power at the club. Its like he makes the decisions and the board blindly follow.

So for me its Wenger first and foremost followed closely by the AKB's who have seen what he has done/is doing but who refuse to admit that hes fucked up big-time.

Bunch of :censored: the lot of em.

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Herd
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Re: Apportioning Blame

Post by Herd »

[/quote]Apologies mate, I should have put those *word censored* at the top of the list. When I refer to or mention 'the Board' I automatically include them..[/quote]

Fair enough ,blame it on the boogie !

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franksav63
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Re: Apportioning Blame

Post by franksav63 »

OneBardGooner wrote:I was once told that 'Blame' served no purpose, other than being a means by which to focus a collectives anger in one direction, allowing all other guilty parties to escape said judgement and anger.

Well, I think/hope that yesterday can serve as a watershed day in Arsenal's recent history, with RVP announcing he no longer wanted to be at Arsenal, but also saying 'why?', and saying what so many Gooners have been thinking and feeling for quite some time, that the club are not moving in the right direction, which is another way of saying the club's being mis-managed and the level of investment in players is wholly inadequate.

So is it just me or do all these need to shoulder their portion of responsibility and accept the part they have played in a farce that has seen The Arsenal become a pale shadow of its former self.

RVP - joined in 2004 and until last season (where he proved he is a World Class striker) he had - through injury - played an average of 20 games per season - unacceptable by anyone's standards. Now he is off because the club won't invest serious money in other World Class players.

Arsene Wenger - Initially brought great success to the club, but has been ineffective in winning trophies these past 7 seasons, it is well known that not only does he 'manage and coach' the first team squad, but since the departure of David Dein, he (and Deins replacement Gazidis) also manage all the contract and transfer deals. He is given free reign by the board to does all this, why? well he doesn't 'rock the boat' and season on season he ensures they turn a very healthy profit, no trophies, but the finances look very healthy, all smiles with regards the so called self-sustaining financial project.

Ivan Gazidis - Took up the post of Chief Executive on 1st January 2009, again it was Arsene Wenger who had the final say on his appointment, taking over from an ousted David Dein, many see his arrival as the beginning of the end of Arsenal's more successful years, he is regarded by many Arsenal fans as the face of the board, a politician in the private sector. It is strongly rumoured that a number of possible decent signings failed to materialise allegedly due to his incompetence.

David Dein - Like him or not, when he was on the board the buying and selling of players was very successful, he was ousted from his position at Arsenal, for daring to propose investment from outside - something that eventually happened in the form of Kroenke - of whom Peter Hill-Wood (The Chairman) once inferred that his sort was not welcome at Arsenal FC. Dein regardless of his flaws wore his Arsenal Cannon on his sleeve, taking a genuine interest in new/young players and all things at every level of the club, which is why he and Wenger got on so well both as colleagues and friends. Some would argue that since Dein's departure the club has gone backwards.

Kroenke (aka: Silent Stan) - Owner of a number of sports franchises in the USofA, he didn't buy the majority of shares in Arsenal out of the goodness of his heart and to invest money, but for one reason and one reason only to make a profit, nothing wrong with making profit, but again I don't think it is any coincidence that since his arrival, Arsene Wenger's position as manager has become even more secure, even though the club has nothing to show in terms of trophies, only 'Profit'

Arsenal Fans - We now pay the highest prices in the Prem for tickets, whilst having to endure sub-standard players being brought in (Squillaci,Fabianski, Almunia, Vela, Santos et al) AND then endure further insult when the likes of Denilson, Djourou, Diaby, Bendtner, Eboue etc are offered long term deals on very high wages, we then cannot move them on, because no one else will match the lavel of money they are being paid at Arsenal, all while our best players are being sold Fabregas, Nasri and now RVP (sold because they want out!) due to incompetent management (any player worth their salt should never be allowed to have a contract that dwindles to one year) , minimal investment in players of quality (the only exception being Arshavin - who arrived in a blaze of publicity and glory, only to prove a bad buy, some believing his poor form and (subsequent) lack of interest due to continually being played out of position.

The line between board and manager seems to have become so blurred, it is hard to tell exactly what Wenger's real position is, he spends days mulling over the finer details of transfer and loan deals even on reserve squad players, when surely he should be 'managing the team', focusing on what happens on the pitch, and let someone else sort through all the business aspects relating to players.
Then there is the continual poor level of recovery of players from injury, how often has it been announced that a player will be unavailable for between 4 and 8 weeks, then 6 months later the problem is still unresolved, the prime example being Jack Wilshere, a young player of huge potential who has already missed a whole season due to an injury we were told would only keep him out of action for 2 - 3 months, and this seems to be the norm, many suggesting the medical team at Arsenal - regardless of the state of the art facilities - are not up to scratch.

Wenger, the Board, Gazidis and Kreonke must shoulder the responsibility for what has now become an Embarrassment. Due to gross incompetence our club, "The Arsenal" has become a laughing stock, thanks to mis-management at all levels.

Any respect and affection that Arsene Wenger once had is gone, gradually eroded by his continual failures as a manager, he often speaks about 'honouring' his contract, being a man of his word, well if he is a man of honour and has any respect for Arsenal and the fans - he should walk, Gazidis should be sacked, bring David Dein back to oversee transfer and contracts, Peter Hill-Wood should retire, Kroenke needs to get off his derriere and invest in world class players and Usmanov should be given a place on the board and the opportunity to invest in players.

Apologies for the length of this, but I have had enough.
Great post OBG, a great read, I would add about Wenger, how much he's changed in the last 4 seasons, his bitter post match interviews, his tirades on the touchline, I wonder why he agreed to sign his last contract so quickly? I do believe he's compliant in the way the club is run now, he's got previous of trying exactly this and got shown the door very quickly.

When he goes and I hope it's very, very soon, the whole structure of club needs to be overhauled from top to bottom and this is going to be a very hard task indeed.

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OneBardGooner
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Re: Apportioning Blame

Post by OneBardGooner »

:cheers: Frank.

That is a major MAJOR comcern, I am now hoping that the letter by Usmanov - will be the thin end of the wedge and Kroenke and the board will have to deal with him - It just occurred to me that the timing of RVP's statement was released with the clubs full knowledge - they may not have known its content, but (I'm pretty certain) that they tried to lessen the impact of his statement by announcing that Podolski had officially joined us, - they even put a small video of him signing the papers with |Ken Friar in attendance , they have NEVER done that before (at least not to my knowledge), so it has all been stage managed *word censored* :banghead:

As for when wenker leaves - asap as far as I'm concerned, but I think because of the hold he has had over many aspects of the club - not just coaching & managing the 1st squad, it will take some untangling and sorting out - also there is the 'style of play' that will also change when the new manager comes in, along with staff (back room, medical etc etc) I hope it is all done with Usmanov coming in - so there is a 100% re-haul of everything and everyone on all levels, I think when he does go , it will also mean the end for Gazidis and with any luck a few others - especially P Hill-wood etc...

We need a complete over-haul and I would imagine that will take 1 - 3 seasons for stability to be regained and for things to starts running smoothly.....that's the trouble - Wenker has made many, many changes to suit his 'vision', and while he has done a lot of good, he has also a great deal of damage. :banghead:

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northbank123
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Re: Apportioning Blame

Post by northbank123 »

QuartzGooner wrote: Henry was slowing down, had just split from his wife, and fancied a change of scenery knowing he was less potent in the English game than he was before.
He also knew that the reduced frequency of having a proper support man was weakening his game.

Clichy was "sold" by us. He was a defensive liability and the club offered him poor contract terms to force him out.

Cesc was always going to go back to Barcelona at some point.

Nasri wanted cash and trophies, City offered both.

Adebayor? A problem wherever he goes.
I agree. Henry had struggled with injuries in the season prior to his move and I don't think anybody begrudged him the fresh start at Barcelona and the chance to win trophies without having to be the main man all the time. It was a matter of time with Fabregas and we'd held on as long as possible, the relative state of both teams signalled that that time had come. Clichy (in my view) was shit for us for years, all this bollocks about being the sole survivor of the Invincibles: for me he started becoming a liability about the time of that 4-4 Spurs draw, same as Almunia. Nasri's head was turned by his own greed first and foremost, as was Adebayor's, I don't blame any agent for that. I hardly like losing top players but in the case of those two they had one good season each and their disruptive attitudes meant getting £50m for them was hardly a disaster.

To be fair to Darren Dein I don't think he poisoned any of these players against the club, and he couldn't do his job properly if he blindly insisted all of his clients stay at Arsenal out of loyalty to the club. It's simply not in an agent's capabilities, if he didn't broker the moves somebody else would have.

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