Poll - Safe Standing and Aston Villa trial.

[DarylAFC]

Get no help from EU law mate, not in a million years are the Parliament/Commission going to rule that banning standing is unlawful.

yes, but currently its discrimination by the UK gov. as they allow it at their Rugby where the farquar MP's stand in their barbour jackets and flat caps
they either have to ban it at all sporting events or none, is my point.

B..But you're forgetting my good sir that all Football soccer supporting fans are yobbo hooigans who cause Hillsboro every week?!?!

In all seriousness that's probably the perception MEPs have of British football fans. There's no way a discrimination case would get anywhere at all, because even if somebody could claim to be directly effected enough (no) somebody at the EU would just mention Heysel and Hillsborough and there you have it, rule justified. I'm not saying I agree with it, just that that's the way it is.

Totally agree. When it comes to football, Europe hate us. We have to move on and accept it. For example, Serbian FA and English FA will get the same fne, no other European country with a hooligan problem will get a ban on all clubs competing and, while we're the only one;s who want goal line tech it wont happen. The sooner we get rid of them bastards in Brussels the better IMO.

[clockender1]

while we're the only one;s who want goal line tech it wont happen.

FIFA awarded the technology license for that this week

things do change.

[DarylAFC]

while we're the only one;s who want goal line tech it wont happen.

FIFA awarded the technology license for that this week

things do change.

Fifa agreeing with England!?!?!?!

To be fair it took a dodgy decision going our wy for it to happen but still, good on Fifa! Now, about them Serbs...

[SafeStandingRoadshow]

Of course, what is being proposed is a 'European' solution anyway, i.e. German-style rail seats, as used in many Bundesliga grounds hosting UEFA games, like the AWD Arena in Hannover, where this video was filmed:

http://youtu.be/apX5V1IJCW4

If you think that, like the Germans, we should also have the freedom to choose whether we watch football sitting down or standing up (without being constantly told not to!), please use this clever little tool from the FSF - http://fsfsafestandingcampaign.appspot.com/mp/write - to quickly send your MP an e-mail urging him/her to support EDM 573, which calls for trials of safe standing areas.

[AFCasap]

while we're the only one;s who want goal line tech it wont happen.

FIFA awarded the technology license for that this week

things do change.

Fifa agreeing with England!?!?!?!

To be fair it took a dodgy decision going our wy for it to happen but still, good on Fifa! Now, about them Serbs...

the serb fa just banned 2 u21 players for a year and 2 coaches for 2 years...what did the sweet FA do
to JT?...a 4 match ban!..then carried on as england senior captain until HE decided to quit!
fifa have to deal with the whole world..englands just another country, they don't do
extra's..
german railseating is the safest way to watch football bar none...impossible for pissed up standing
fans to fall over the seats onto fans in front of them...i saw that happen at highbury

[_James_]

I am going to be so gutted if we ever get standing back - it will be just another reason to hate leaving our beautiful historic home behind for no good reason. Especially with the scousers getting the green light from their council to compulsory purchase homes behind their stand to build a bigger stand - like we could of done with the West Stand ...

Have you ever walked around anfield....? No surprise that they would be able to compulsory purchase those houses..... Would doubt that any would be worth more than £10k & last time I was there most seemed to be boarded up.....

If Chelsea cannot afford to buy the land round their ground there is no way Arsenal could have brought the land round Highbury.
I guess Liverpool FC will pay money towards redeveloping the whole area rather than purchasing individual houses and the council will purchase all the houses and land and give some land back to the club.

Standing may happen in a few seasons at some grounds, I am not sure if it will be a quick process.

Does safe standing actually increase capacity of stadiums or do you have the same amount of people in the space as could be seated.

[DarylAFC]

Another point is will standing seats be cheaper?

[_James_]

Another point is will standing seats be cheaper?

That would depend on the club. I guess if more people fit in then they could make it cheaper and make more money.

[Dan_85]

Another point is will standing seats be cheaper?

They should be, but knowing AFC i wouldn't bank on it.

[DarylAFC]

I think AFC might be missing a trick on standing. The tourists and the prawn cocktail brigade wont want them seats so it will only be the die-hards interested. Charge say £20 a ticket and they will sell out every week and creat a great atmosphere. Everyone wins IMO.

Though knowing Arsenal, they'd sell it as a "exciting matchday experience" an charge full price

[SafeStandingRoadshow]

Does safe standing actually increase capacity of stadiums or do you have the same amount of people in the space as could be seated.

It all depends on what any new rules for safe standing might say.

In theory safe standing would indeed increase capacity.

At the Emirates you have wide rows (800mm, I believe). If you removed the normal seats and put in rail seats, that would leave 750mm of clearway along each row (as the rail 'seats' fold up flush between the rail uprights and don't project into the row like normal seats). In theory that's plenty of room to accommodate more than one person per seat space. Under current UK regulations the space required to accommodate 10 people in grandstand seats can be used to accommodate 18 people standing. In Germany in stadia where the rows are also 800mm deep some clubs work on the ratio of 2 standing fans per seat space.

That's part of the theory. However, you also have to bear in mind the need to evacuate stands within a set time and requirements for concourses to be of adequate size and sufficient loos etc. to be provided, so it's not a simple formula. In theory an area of, say, 4,000 normal seats, could become 7,200 fans standing at rail seats ... but in the case of a retrofit only if the relevant modifications were made to the vomitories, concourses etc.

The clubs would thus need to do the sums to work out if it was worth their while ... which in turn would impact on what they might charge for tickets. We would simply like them to have the freedom to sit down with their architects and other advisors to do those sums ... at present they're not allowed to!

This page on my website and the one after explain this in more details ... with some explanatory pics.

[clockender1]

those seats are a great idea.

personally i would pay a few quid extra to stand with my mates again.

I hope that this is a issue that Red Action and the BSM would support, as this will bring back the atmosphere and make it feel more like 'our' club again.

[GoonerN5]

Cant ever see Arsenal doing this, it would attract the sort of fan that they are doing their best to price out

[MK Gould]

In the light of new evidence about the role of the police in the Hillsborough disaster I think that there is a need to look again at the findings and recommendation of the Taylor Report.....

The lack of effective Police Planning & Control, which had been criticized but has subsequently been proven have been the main/only cause of the disaster, is barely mentioned in the report. Instead the report focussed too much on the impact of alcohol, touts, segregation and hooliganism i.e. the very things the police have been found to have lied about. There was also external pressure from Thatcher's Government to ensure that the "solution" was always going to involve the removal of terracing - home of the thug .... There was also acknowledgement within the report that the seats which replaced terrace needed to be affordable - which was never enforced!

I can't help thinking that if the facts of this were seriously looked at again today (and not sure there is any appetite to do so) then there would be overwhelming evidence to support a full return to terraces, or at least implementation of limited safe standing areas!

[MK Gould]

Does safe standing actually increase capacity of stadiums or do you have the same amount of people in the space as could be seated.

It all depends on what any new rules for safe standing might say.

In theory safe standing would indeed increase capacity.

At the Emirates you have wide rows (800mm, I believe). If you removed the normal seats and put in rail seats, that would leave 750mm of clearway along each row (as the rail 'seats' fold up flush between the rail uprights and don't project into the row like normal seats). In theory that's plenty of room to accommodate more than one person per seat space. Under current UK regulations the space required to accommodate 10 people in grandstand seats can be used to accommodate 18 people standing. In Germany in stadia where the rows are also 800mm deep some clubs work on the ratio of 2 standing fans per seat space.

That's part of the theory. However, you also have to bear in mind the need to evacuate stands within a set time and requirements for concourses to be of adequate size and sufficient loos etc. to be provided, so it's not a simple formula. In theory an area of, say, 4,000 normal seats, could become 7,200 fans standing at rail seats ... but in the case of a retrofit only if the relevant modifications were made to the vomitories, concourses etc.

The clubs would thus need to do the sums to work out if it was worth their while ... which in turn would impact on what they might charge for tickets. We would simply like them to have the freedom to sit down with their architects and other advisors to do those sums ... at present they're not allowed to!

This page on my website and the one after explain this in more details ... with some explanatory pics.

Schalke's capacity for Bundesliga matches is 61,000. However, this is reduced to 54,000 for our match next week as the safe standing reverts to seating. So it seems likely to me that safe standing at the Grove would lead to capacity increasing to something like 65-70,000.....