The Gooner Forum

I gather this thread is probably more to do with genres rather than specific artists but got to throw a mention out to the ultimate pretentious wankers.

Coldplay

SPUDMASHER wrote:
i'm dead serious Quartz. Rap today is utter shite. Most of it is pop in disguise. It's written by a team of detached writers, presented to an artist (I use the term lightly) and then peddled as original material.

The last time we saw decent rap was back in the day of Grandmaster Flash.

Seems the last time you saw decent rap was back in the day of Grandmaster Flash.

His main MC Melle Mel was a great of his era, but lyrical skills have since evolved through envelope-pushers such as Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, The GZA, Biggie Smalls, Ghostface, Homeboy Sandman and Common.

Sure there are now and always have been ghostwriters.
In many genres.

Sure there is pop rap, selling empty consumer dreams and fake hair.

There is a lot of dross, acts such as Lil' Wayne, Nicky Minaj and even the supposedly wonderful Kendrick Lamar have me reaching for the off switch.
Jay-Z usually does too.

But to say there has been no meaningful rap since the early 80's is a sweeping generalisation to which I can only ask, what do you listen to?

Because it ignores lots of artists since then who have made some decent records, politically and socially relevant.


To mention a few of them:

Public Enemy's social commentary?
Not all of which I agree with but "Fight The Power" with it's counterpart Spike Lee film "Do The Right Thing" stand as an incredible zeitgeist of New York racial tension in the last days of Mayor Koch's tenure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_t13-0Joyc

Philadelphia's "The Roots", 11 Hip Hop albums strong and counting (plus a couple of non-Hip Hop collaborations).
A Hip Hop band with the lyrical giant Black Thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWhyk1u2RSM

The production genius of Detroit's late J-Dilla?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcIjsxcKyeQ


Queens's Nas, when on point one of the best ever, with DJ Premier, masterfully mixing Hip Hop and classical music?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiMb45BSLQ8


From London amongst others we have:

Roots Manuva with his humour

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TkmpeYOUYI

Rodney P too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKT7GftN7fo

Skinnyman and his tale of urban woe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRu_OA0r0RM

Jhest similar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV8ozGcGJ6o

The IRS and their unemployment blues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYxsoPeUBxY

And then consider the roughly 500 English language books published about Hip Hop since 1982, the 100 plus film documentaries and the university courses.

If Hip Hop was only Hip-Pop there just would not be so much to write about.

In other languages a lot going on too:

French Hip Hop such as NTM, IAM, Malediction Du Nord, with it's social commentary and pre-emption of Sarkozy's "Racaille" remark?

The Jew vs Arabs rap war of words between Subliminal and DAM in Israel?

And as a contributor to the Tunisian Revolution?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14146243

QuartzGooner wrote:Is this a "Wind Up Quartz?" thread!

There is a lot of good Hip Hop, and by no means all of it is "gangsta" and negative, certainly not anything approaching 99% of it.

I said 99.99% for fucks sake!!!

QuartzGooner wrote:

SPUDMASHER wrote:
i'm dead serious Quartz. Rap today is utter shite. Most of it is pop in disguise. It's written by a team of detached writers, presented to an artist (I use the term lightly) and then peddled as original material.

The last time we saw decent rap was back in the day of Grandmaster Flash.

Seems the last time you saw decent rap was back in the day of Grandmaster Flash.

His main MC Melle Mel was a great of his era, but lyrical skills have since evolved through envelope-pushers such as Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, The GZA, Biggie Smalls, Ghostface, Homeboy Sandman and Common.

Sure there are now and always have been ghostwriters.
In many genres.

Sure there is pop rap, selling empty consumer dreams and fake hair.

There is a lot of dross, acts such as Lil' Wayne, Nicky Minaj and even the supposedly wonderful Kendrick Lamar have me reaching for the off switch.
Jay-Z usually does too.

But to say there has been no meaningful rap since the early 80's is a sweeping generalisation to which I can only ask, what do you listen to?

Because it ignores lots of artists since then who have made some decent records, politically and socially relevant.


To mention a few of them:

Public Enemy's social commentary?
Not all of which I agree with but "Fight The Power" with it's counterpart Spike Lee film "Do The Right Thing" stand as an incredible zeitgeist of New York racial tension in the last days of Mayor Koch's tenure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_t13-0Joyc

Philadelphia's "The Roots", 11 Hip Hop albums strong and counting (plus a couple of non-Hip Hop collaborations).
A Hip Hop band with the lyrical giant Black Thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWhyk1u2RSM

The production genius of Detroit's late J-Dilla?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcIjsxcKyeQ


Queens's Nas, when on point one of the best ever, with DJ Premier, masterfully mixing Hip Hop and classical music?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiMb45BSLQ8


From London amongst others we have:

Roots Manuva with his humour

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TkmpeYOUYI

Rodney P too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKT7GftN7fo

Skinnyman and his tale of urban woe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRu_OA0r0RM

Jhest similar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV8ozGcGJ6o

The IRS and their unemployment blues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYxsoPeUBxY

And then consider the roughly 500 English language books published about Hip Hop since 1982, the 100 plus film documentaries and the university courses.

If Hip Hop was only Hip-Pop there just would not be so much to write about.

In other languages a lot going on too:

French Hip Hop such as NTM, IAM, Malediction Du Nord, with it's social commentary and pre-emption of Sarkozy's "Racaille" remark?

The Jew vs Arabs rap war of words between Subliminal and DAM in Israel?

And as a contributor to the Tunisian Revolution?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14146243

And thanks for ruining the thread by listing some of the most bland contrived rap shite I've ever heard. Spuddy is right, as an art form rap died in the 80's.

I think I can condense 99.999% of all rap since with this ditty I submitted to Kanye and which I believe he will be using on his next album;

Yo bitches an ho's
got a diamond in mah nose,
got guns an bling
blah blah blah my ting.
init.

DB10 is right. Rap died in the 80's. It was a product of its generation and todays 'artists' will never reach those heights or be that credible.

Nothing will convince me otherwise and the proof of it is that we still remember Grandmaster, Melle Mel etc.
In 30 years time who will remember Kuntye West, Dirippy Rascal etc?

On the other hand in 30 years time there will be yet another generation of fans for the Rolling Stones, The Who, Paul Weller, Pink Floyd, The Animals, The Beatles (not a favourite of mine personally).

These are some of the bands that will be legend, not the shite pop dressed up as rap that is peddled by record executives today.

Personally I like tracks from almost every genre. I can even take a bit of country from time to time but modern
'C' rap.....not any more.

Lift

anything by queen.....makes me feel sick. Also HATE their male fan base knobs who unfunnily always played air guitar in public when that shite was played

SPUDMASHER wrote:DB10 is right. Rap died in the 80's. It was a product of its generation and todays 'artists' will never reach those heights or be that credible.

Nothing will convince me otherwise and the proof of it is that we still remember Grandmaster, Melle Mel etc.
In 30 years time who will remember Kuntye West, Dirippy Rascal etc?

On the other hand in 30 years time there will be yet another generation of fans for the Rolling Stones, The Who, Paul Weller, Pink Floyd, The Animals, The Beatles (not a favourite of mine personally).

These are some of the bands that will be legend, not the shite pop dressed up as rap that is peddled by record executives today.

Personally I like tracks from almost every genre. I can even take a bit of country from time to time but modern
'C' rap.....not any more.

I think that you might be surprised by the debate within Hip Hop that has been conducted for the past 15 years or so.

A number of Hip Hop artists are acutely aware and alarmed by the mass of pop or dumbed down so called "Gangsta" and "Trap" rap that gets released.

The lyrical skill of MC unquestionably increased through the 1990's, spearheaded by the double and internal rhyming structure of Rakim from 1986 onwards and the quick flows of Big Daddy Kane.
By 1994-96 we had the intricate dense descriptive flows of Nas, and the incredible rhyming ability and timing of Biggie.
These artists will no doubt be remembered for years, and one only has to witness a young teenage MC such as Joey Bada$$$ who intentionally harks back to the mid-90's.

Since then we have seen things regress stylistically; Lil' Wayne is horrible!
But that is just some of the mainstream.
Others have carried on improving and I think you either have not heard them or simply do not want to heat them out of a mistaken belief that there is no longer progress.

As I mentioned above, MCs such as Black Thought and Common are very much the equals of 80's Golden Era MCs.

Chas & Dave

Rap died in the 80's....don't think I've read a more false statement in a while. Rap and hip-hop are not dead but it certainly lives "underground." The major record labels and radio stations do not play it, and it's not shown on any award shows or tv channels...but it is there and a lot of it is good music. Independent labels are the future of hip hop, stuff like Tech N9ne's Strange Music label who have 3 or 4 good artists. The pop rap that everyone sees/hears like Lil Wayne and Kanye are what the record labels want you to see but theres a lot of good stuff hidden.


I personally HATE country music and everything it stands for. Rednecks, bible thumpers, right wing nut jobs and their pick-up trucks. I'm curious...how big is country over the pond there? I figured its more of a southern/mid-west American thing.

And on the rap debate. There's quite the conspiracy theory that the "illuminati" who run this country, only release rap that they want to release so that it gives the public an image of black America that they want everyone to have. They control public perception through record labels, radio stations, tv, etc... A lot of black rappers believe this theory which is why the independent labels are where the real quality stuff comes from.

Yankee_Gooner_Dandee wrote:And on the rap debate. There's quite the conspiracy theory that the "illuminati" who run this country, only release rap that they want to release so that it gives the public an image of black America that they want everyone to have. They control public perception through record labels, radio stations, tv, etc... A lot of black rappers believe this theory which is why the independent labels are where the real quality stuff comes from.

Erm... er... uh... o-kay.

The Beatles, especially anything Paul McCartney was involved in.

I'm sure they were exciting at the time given that Perry Como etc were the alternatives, but I don't think they've stood the test of time.
I remember when that ping-pong TV/computer tennis thing came out and the first mobile phones, but it doesn't mean we should look back now and think they are brillliant.

GranadaJoe wrote:The Beatles, especially anything Paul McCartney was involved in.

I'm sure they were exciting at the time given that Perry Como etc were the alternatives, but I don't think they've stood the test of time.
I remember when that ping-pong TV/computer tennis thing came out and the first mobile phones, but it doesn't mean we should look back now and think they are brillliant.

That's a really odd perception, Granada. So according to your theory, nobody should like anything from the past, because we've all moved on. Films, books, art, music. Surely a lot of recent music is here because of The Beatles, Stones, The Who, The Doors, Led Zeppelin? The march of technology has nothing to do with it.
Also, to say you dislike The Beatles, especially anything Paul McCartney was involved in, well that's pretty much all of it then?
Listen to the albums, not just the hits and I'm sure you'll find something there. Revolver, Sgt Pepper, Let It Be, all have good stuff on them.

goonertux wrote:

GranadaJoe wrote:The Beatles, especially anything Paul McCartney was involved in.

I'm sure they were exciting at the time given that Perry Como etc were the alternatives, but I don't think they've stood the test of time.
I remember when that ping-pong TV/computer tennis thing came out and the first mobile phones, but it doesn't mean we should look back now and think they are brillliant.

That's a really odd perception, Granada. So according to your theory, nobody should like anything from the past, because we've all moved on. Films, books, art, music. Surely a lot of recent music is here because of The Beatles, Stones, The Who, The Doors, Led Zeppelin? The march of technology has nothing to do with it.
Also, to say you dislike The Beatles, especially anything Paul McCartney was involved in, well that's pretty much all of it then?
Listen to the albums, not just the hits and I'm sure you'll find something there. Revolver, Sgt Pepper, Let It Be, all have good stuff on them.

Have to agree. I'm not much of a Beatles fan but they have some songs that are just brilliant. As for music standing the test of time... I don't think that's relevant. Music should inspire you, make you feel something when you hear it and then years later when you hear it again it should trigger memories of that time and more feelings. I hear those opening chords of "Smells like teen spirit" or "Angry Chair" and I'm back in the early 90's man, drunk, stoned, fucking around, in a band, playing guitar, travelling Europe to watch The Arsenal, free and easy, having a blast.

And pong was fantastic, nothing but good memories of it here .