The Myth of the Premier league

[GranadaJoe]

I do value excitement but I like to see quality as well.

Two drunks fighting can be good to watch but I'd rather see the best boxers.

In psychology 'confirmation bias' is when we 'see' what we expect or want to see, and I wonder whether we are guilty of this, because I think that many, many PL games are turgid shit.

WBA v Villa, QPR v Sunderland, Stoke v Leicester, Palace v Newcastle etc etc. How many of us would be dashing down the pub to watch that, let alone pay money to go to the ground.

The PL is definitely the biggest brand and richest league, but imo the quality is lower than in previous years and worse than La Liga (which I know) and probably the Bundesliga.

The clubs that sold us Toure, di Maria, Ozil and even Alexis, weren't unhappy to see them leave.

[robbo10]

I do value excitement but I like to see quality as well.

Two drunks fighting can be good to watch but I'd rather see the best boxers.

In psychology 'confirmation bias' is when we 'see' what we expect or want to see, and I wonder whether we are guilty of this, because I think that many, many PL games are turgid shit.

WBA v Villa, QPR v Sunderland, Stoke v Leicester, Palace v Newcastle etc etc. How many of us would be dashing down the pub to watch that, let alone pay money to go to the ground.

The PL is definitely the biggest brand and richest league, but imo the quality is lower than in previous years and worse than La Liga (which I know) and probably the Bundesliga.

The clubs that sold us Toure, di Maria, Ozil and even Alexis, weren't unhappy to see them leave.

Them games you listed were the reason I fucked Sky off a few years ago,utter dogshit,I agree about La Liga,I think technically its a much better league but you don't have the odd freak result so much,Barcelona or Madrid(s) dont get beat too often like the bigger Premiership clubs do,

I think the Premiership gets weaker every year,no disrespect to the promoted clubs,but I guess thats the beauty of the pyramid system,

[Raggy]

What defines 'best football league"?

[g88ner]

I think that many, many PL games are turgid shit.

WBA v Villa, QPR v Sunderland, Stoke v Leicester, Palace v Newcastle etc etc. How many of us would be dashing down the pub to watch that, let alone pay money to go to the ground.

Plenty of people! - they're willing to give their time and money for this turgid shit because it's their passion.

WBA v Villa = 24,684 (>90% full)
QPR v Sunderland = 17,930 (>90% full)
Stoke v Leicester = 27,500 (100% full)
Palace v Newcastle = 25,118 (>90% full)

You question how many people would watch the turgid shit Premier League, but turn it around.... why do we flock to these "turgid" games, whilst Spaniards are not interested in going to La Liga games? - I'd be interested to know the equivalent attendances for games involving Getafe, Elbar, Levante, Elche, Espanyol, etc.

In fact, many of our Championship clubs have higher attendances than La Liga side, with Derby, Norwich and Brighton averaging over 25,000, and Forest, Leeds, Wolves, Sheff Wed and Cardiff averaging over 20,000.

English football has a lot to be proud of and although quality is nice, I don't see it as essential. It's deeper than that.

I know you feel differently, Granada. The Newcastle win felt "like a loss" to you, presumably because we were turgid shit in the second half. I'll never be able to relate to that. We won and I'm delighted about it. But perhaps that attitude explains why Spanish football outside of the top clubs is struggling to convince supporters to turn up to watch them play?

[GranadaJoe]

Thousands would turn up to a public hanging, but its popularity doesn't instil it with any quality.

Paris Hilton, One Direction, Nigel Farage are all very popular.

[g88ner]

Thousands would turn up to a public hanging, but its popularity doesn't instil it with any quality.

Paris Hilton, One Direction, Nigel Farage are all very popular.

Fuck me, is English football really that bad in your eyes? I've watched a lot of football around Europe, and I have huge respect for the Spanish game, but honestly, I don't think the English league is as bad as you're making out. I really don't.

Can I ask, how did you come to support Arsenal when you look down on English football with such disdain?

And, if the quality is so high, what are your thoughts on why the Spanish public are so disinterested in many of their clubs?

I think it's quite interesting to get a perspective from a Spanish fan, as tv and news from La Liga is horribly skewed towards Real Madrid and Barcelona over here.

[GranadaJoe]

Thousands would turn up to a public hanging, but its popularity doesn't instil it with any quality.

Paris Hilton, One Direction, Nigel Farage are all very popular.

Fuck me, is English football really that bad in your eyes? I've watched a lot of football around Europe, and I have huge respect for the Spanish game, but honestly, I don't think the English league is as bad as you're making out. I really don't.

Can I ask, how did you come to support Arsenal when you look down on English football with such disdain?

And, if the quality is so high, what are your thoughts on why the Spanish public are so disinterested in many of their clubs?

I think it's quite interesting to get a perspective from a Spanish fan, as tv and news from La Liga is horribly skewed towards Real Madrid and Barcelona over here.

I don't look down on English football with disdain. I've been a Gooner for nearly fifty years and have gone through the good and bad times. I even spent my early teenage years going to watch Gillingham with my mates, and quality was in very short supply.

I wasn't trying to have a pop at English football per se, but at the disconnect between the level of the PL at the moment and the jingoism and hyperbole of the media. If people keep telling us we're the best, we'll start to believe it and complacency begins. Not having any British involvement in the quarters of European competitions was a shock, and equally shocking was the relative lack of concern.
The top six in the PL are not up to the standard of the top 6 in La Liga and English football fans should be concerned, yet the media forever trot out, 'it's not as competitive, aggressive' etc, which I don't believe is true. The PL is faster, with more mistakes.

As regards Spanish fans; the culture is very different. Fans go to home games, but few go away. A big problem is distance. When I lived in London I could go to half a dozen away games and be home for my dinner, before going down the pub. I could go to plenty more and still be home for last orders, but here there are few derbies. Granada is my 'local' La Liga team (for a few more weeks at least) but I'm over an hour from the ground. Just in Andalucia, it's four hours to Sevilla and three to Málaga. Madrid 6, Barca 8, Bilbao 11. They make for very long, very expensive trips, especially when the game kicks off at 9 or 10 on a Sunday night.

What is also weird, for me, is that, for example, Madrid fans hate Atlético fans, but if Atlético are playing a foreign club they want their rivals to win.
If the Scum were playing the Third Reich FC I'd still want to see the Scum thrashed.

On average, Spanish fans are three times further away from their nearest top flight team than for English fans.

I had a mate from Cornwall, who, with no local team chose the Victims. Similarly in Spain nearly 40% of Spaniards say they support Madrid. Partly 'plastics' but partly for lack of local team to support.

P.S. Lower league teams here are shit. Much worse than in England.

[LDB]

All this bullshit about the Spanish league and the German and Italian leagues is based on the top 2 or 3 teams playing each other mostly, when the truth is you will on average see more shit games in those leagues per season than you will in the PL.

You know this how though? Do you watch much Spanish, German or Italian football? I've seen a couple of mid-bottom table La Liga games and frankly I was quite surprised. It's often made out that everyone else plays the game at a walking pace but that wasn't what I saw and the technical level of those sides was streets ahead of watching Sunderland and West Brom attempting to play football. Hardly a statistically significant sample I know but one thing I do know is that you can't pay me to watch some of the lower table shite the 'best league in the world' conjures up. How much of this famed global audience tuned into West Ham vs Sunderland yesterday? They only watch the top teams just like they'd only watch the top 2 in Spain.

People talk about smaller teams beating bigger teams... Chelsea have lost 2 games this season. Real Madrid have lost 5 and Barcelona have lost 4. The winners of the premier league in the last 8 years look like this:

2006–07 Manchester United
2007–08 Manchester United
2008–09 Manchester United
2009–10 Chelsea
2010–11 Manchester United
2011–12 Manchester City
2012–13 Manchester United
2013–14 Manchester City

Hardly anything comparable to Atletico Madrid's win last season is there? Even when we were winning the league we were one of only 2 teams who had a chance.

Every time something "dramatic" happens pundits and idiots on the BBC text stream line up to shoot their loads over the "prem", you'd think nobody has ever won a game 3-2 with a late winner anywhere else in the world.

People in this country defend the PL because it's probably all they watch and they're told how good it is by Sky. It's well marketed, no doubt about that. I watch it because I know the teams, I'm invested in the league because I'm an Arsenal fan and I'm English but if I were born in Spain, supported a Spanish side and knew the teams and players I'm confident I'd be watching a product just as good if not better.

[LDB]

Enjoying seeing Hull giving Chelsea a real blood-and-thunder run for their money

Edit: 2-2, best league in the world

[northbank123]

Enjoying seeing Hull giving Chelsea a real blood-and-thunder run for their money

Edit: 2-2, best league in the world

Frustrating to see really. The league has been there for the taking last two years.

[Chippy]

Excellent thread. We've got some really good posters on this forum. Cue some smart arse with a picture of a poster.

I was in Barcelona last weekend and all the boards outside bars were advertising PL games.

[gp543]

I think that many, many PL games are turgid shit.

WBA v Villa, QPR v Sunderland, Stoke v Leicester, Palace v Newcastle etc etc. How many of us would be dashing down the pub to watch that, let alone pay money to go to the ground.

Plenty of people! - they're willing to give their time and money for this turgid shit because it's their passion.

WBA v Villa = 24,684 (>90% full)
QPR v Sunderland = 17,930 (>90% full)
Stoke v Leicester = 27,500 (100% full)
Palace v Newcastle = 25,118 (>90% full)

You question how many people would watch the turgid shit Premier League, but turn it around.... why do we flock to these "turgid" games, whilst Spaniards are not interested in going to La Liga games? - I'd be interested to know the equivalent attendances for games involving Getafe, Elbar, Levante, Elche, Espanyol, etc.

In fact, many of our Championship clubs have higher attendances than La Liga side, with Derby, Norwich and Brighton averaging over 25,000, and Forest, Leeds, Wolves, Sheff Wed and Cardiff averaging over 20,000.

English football has a lot to be proud of and although quality is nice, I don't see it as essential. It's deeper than that.

I know you feel differently, Granada. The Newcastle win felt "like a loss" to you, presumably because we were turgid shit in the second half. I'll never be able to relate to that. We won and I'm delighted about it. But perhaps that attitude explains why Spanish football outside of the top clubs is struggling to convince supporters to turn up to watch them play?

Have a look at the attendances for the Camp Nou when it's something other than a European match, one against the top 6 or a late-stage cup match. You might be surprised.

[Nos89]

I would say the premier league is the best. Brand of football is exciting, technically its improved. Only a couple of teams play long ball, united and west ham. The champions league exits are rare, only time in 22 years no English team in Europe past qtr final stage. In last 10 years 8 of the 20 finalists have come from the premier league. We had to give it a break before UEFA banned English clubs again for being too dominant, like they did in the mid-80's.

[augie]

I will agree 100% with LDB when he points to the nuetral interest in the game on offer on saturday evening between the shammers and the mackems - the football was utter, utter dogshite and the atmosphere was poor as well.
I watched yestredays scouse v manure game in a pub full of fans of both teams, and the vast majority of those fans described the game as shite and many spoke about how poor the standard in the league is now We all know that the "brilliant atmosphere) in anfield is greatly exagerated but yesterdays game was woefully flat and there was no real pace to the game either

That being said, I watched el classico last night and it was horrendous - last night the players took the diving and lack of sportsmanship to a whole new level and the clubs should be ashamed of themselves Granted the football (when they made the effort) was better than what was on show in scouseland yesterday, but considering how many of the worlds best players were on show, it really should have been a whole lot better

Btw the cannibal is the same little sly c.unt that he was when he was with the victims and he (and pepe) are a cancer on the game of football

[Blood_Gooner]

All I'll say here is, I've seen a match day labelled as Super Sunday for a game between Stoke and some other lower half pub team.

The EPL is definitely the best marketed, packaged and produced for television league. Not necessarily the best quality league, with the best teams and players, though.