As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Nos89 wrote:The problem with Giroud is that although he is a good player, he's not great. He follows Alan Smith, Ian Wright, Dennis Bergkamp, Thierry Henry and Robin van Persie. All players capable of 20 plus goals a season, all golden boot winners. We're used to better quality striker, it is as simple as that. He's becoming more like Heskey.
The mention of Smith is an interesting one. imo he didn't have the same talent as the others you name, but he was very effective and did a great job. No great pace but enormous effort, application, determination etc. If Giroud was emulating Smudger I'd be happy, because physically they're not that different.
He's not the best striker in the world and lest's be honest we can do better but he give's us a good return in terms pf goals per season. Now, I'm a big critic of Giroud but I feel that if he converted most of the chances that feel to him he would easily win the golden boot.
The problem with Giroud is that if he has time to think then he has fucked the chance. If he acts based on instinct he is a more clinical finisher. I honestly think he need's a second striker with him. He's not a lone front man and it's not his fault he is played as one.
Ahahaha. There's an entire litany of goals stretching back since 2012 demonstrating this guy has great touch for a big man. My personal favourite of many being his role in Wilshere's goal vs Norwich.
The one salient point you make is that he lacks pace (good job on that). The rest of it is utter *****.
18 and counting. "Oh but they're all set up by Ozil, a better striker would score more". Easy enough to say when he misses one, not so after his tidy finishes, the latest being the turn and low finish past Toure vs Liverpool.
Look up Giroud's shots per goal ratio by the way. And then compare that to a viable striking option available in the summer who doesn't have the surname "Aubameyang".
Giroud only needs another 4 goals in all comps before he's bettered van Persie's record here in every season apart from the one in which he bailed us out single handedly. I'd back him to do that.
He's not as good a striker individually as van Persie but a better team player. Same goes with Eduardo. Overall, the best we've had since Henry left the first time.
Robin_L wrote:Giroud only needs another 4 goals in all comps before he's bettered van Persie's record here in every season apart from the one in which he bailed us out single handedly. I'd back him to do that.
He's not as good a striker individually as van Persie but a better team player. .
Undoubtedly agree with that Robin, but are we actually getting the best for the team by having nobody to capitalise on the good holdup play and his ability to play the delicate flick as per the Wilshere goal you mentioned, and Ozil's goal the other week.
Theo's speed, or Sanchez' trickery could really pay dividends against some teams and not leave Giroud isolated v 2 centre backs.
Nos89 wrote:The problem with Giroud is that although he is a good player, he's not great. He follows Alan Smith, Ian Wright, Dennis Bergkamp, Thierry Henry and Robin van Persie. All players capable of 20 plus goals a season, all golden boot winners. We're used to better quality striker, it is as simple as that. He's becoming more like Heskey.
The mention of Smith is an interesting one. imo he didn't have the same talent as the others you name, but he was very effective and did a great job. No great pace but enormous effort, application, determination etc. If Giroud was emulating Smudger I'd be happy, because physically they're not that different.
But smudger didn't need to be fast cos he played in a front 2 and the system we play needs a more mobile striker imo
Nos89 wrote:The problem with Giroud is that although he is a good player, he's not great. He follows Alan Smith, Ian Wright, Dennis Bergkamp, Thierry Henry and Robin van Persie. All players capable of 20 plus goals a season, all golden boot winners. We're used to better quality striker, it is as simple as that. He's becoming more like Heskey.
The mention of Smith is an interesting one. imo he didn't have the same talent as the others you name, but he was very effective and did a great job. No great pace but enormous effort, application, determination etc. If Giroud was emulating Smudger I'd be happy, because physically they're not that different.
But smudger didn't need to be fast cos he played in a front 2 and the system we play needs a more mobile striker imo
True. All criticism of Giroud considered, the lone striker role in our system is so demanding. The striker needs to be fast, have great movement, lethal finishing, strength, great touch, hold-up play and fitness. Whereas in other systems limited strikers can score 20+ goals just by virtue of being a 'poacher'. Giroud isn't good enough for Arsenal but just so happens that he followed one of the only strikers in Europe with all of the above.
Here's some goal stats for this season. Goals are excluding penalties.
Messi - 973 minutes, 8 goals = Goals per game 0.74
Aguero 981 mins, 8 goals = 0.73
Giroud 1407 mins, 11 goals = 0.70
Muller 1314 mins, 9 goals = 0.62
Griezmann 1681 mins, 10 goals = 0.54
Ronaldo, 1710 mins, 10 goals = 0.53
So the big man is really maxing out his potential in that company, right up there with the most effective strikers in European football. Can we sign any of the other 5 players on that list? No (I'd love Griezmann here). If we're looking at the next tier down in terms of fame / reputation then Batshuayi near tops the list and would be a cracking long term solution to replace Giroud. Until then, we're fine with Giroud, infact, we're going to win the league with Giroud.
Robin_L wrote:Here's some goal stats for this season. Goals are excluding penalties.
Messi - 973 minutes, 8 goals = Goals per game 0.74
Aguero 981 mins, 8 goals = 0.73
Giroud 1407 mins, 11 goals = 0.70
Muller 1314 mins, 9 goals = 0.62
Griezmann 1681 mins, 10 goals = 0.54
Ronaldo, 1710 mins, 10 goals = 0.53
So the big man is really maxing out his potential in that company, right up there with the most effective strikers in European football. Can we sign any of the other 5 players on that list? No (I'd love Griezmann here). If we're looking at the next tier down in terms of fame / reputation then Batshuayi near tops the list and would be a cracking long term solution to replace Giroud. Until then, we're fine with Giroud, infact, we're going to win the league with Giroud.
Interesting stats there, however you've been very selective comparing him to known world class strikers in different leagues bar one who was out injured for a good number of games.
How does he compare to Vardy, Mahrez, Lukaku and much as it hurts me to say it Kane?
I'd also be interested to know why Lewandowski was left off the list as as far as i am aware he is one of the in form strikers in Europe and is probably the most similar in position/style to Giroud.
Also how would Giroud's stats compare over say the last 4 seasons as opposed to 1/2 a season, i'm also fairly sure that Messi and Ronaldo aren't really CFs but wing forwards which means they also would naturally include assists as part of their game something that OG isn't renowned for but does occasionally provide.
Robin if you are going to use stats to back up your argument that is fine but please don't tailor the stats to put your argument in the best light as it is just lazy and actually detracts from your argument.
Firstly I will say that I got it badly wrong about this guy. In his first few months I actually thought we'd signed another Chamakh - not only was it the lack of pace but the ball was bouncing off his shins and he couldn't trap a bag of cement. He also looked lost in the enormity of being the Van Judas replacement, while Judas was banging in goals every week for ManUre in his first season.
From there he has got better every season and he is definitely a decent PL standard player which is far more than I ever thought he would be. I think his attitude has improved too. In the first couple of years he would lose individual battles and moan to the ref all the time and roll around in mock agony - he does far less of that now and there aren't many centre halves that dominate him. Probably the biggest compliment I can give him now is that in certain games if he's taken off for the last 20 minutes I dread what follows because invariably the ball doesn't stick up top for long, where as he has got a great ability to do exactly that
We'd obviously all loved to have seen the Suarez deal come off and we had a genuine chance to make that happen if the manager and owner had been ambitious enough. There's no way Giroud is in that class but apart from Aguero in the Premier League at the moment its hard to think of a long list of strikers that we would swap him with. Kane? Perhaps but lets see if he can keep it up. Vardy? Ditto
Compare that to when we first signed Giroud and I would say there was a long list of players in this country who we would have preferred
No pace, no skill, unable to beat his man in a one on one which are pretty basic requirements for a striker at a top club. Has a football brain but not the technical ability to utilise it to his maximum potential. Costs us points every season with his general shiteness despite scoring some nice goals in-between.
