Centre back

[begeegs]

the point is it no longer matter WHO Wenger buys.

he will either not coach them, or he will ruin them by overplaying them.

last season we conceded 35 goals in the Premier League.
this season we have already conceded 33 goals with six games to go.

do you remember how all the AKB's spent the summer saying how we would be so much better defensively now that we had bought Cech?
how is that going then

Agree with this 1000%. As long as Wenger is at Arsenal, it doesn't matter who we buy because we have no system of defending as a team without the ball.

[Robin_L]

There is a stat out there somewhere about the high proportion of our goals conceded from set pieces / balls into the box. Again.

In open play we've been mostly pretty solid in the league this year, no amount of hand-wringing from you lot can change that. We've also shipped a few unnecessary ones when Mertesacker was playing earlier in the season and getting caught with a high line up the pitch with Bellerin unable to get back in time.

Laurent Koscielny is one of the best centre backs in the league. Not the best header at set pieces admittedly, but we lack anyone in our team who can do that. Mertesacker is past it sadly, Gabriel throws in a couple of shockers amongst some decent games. If you look back at the Everton thread I think it was, you lot were all praising him

Anyway we're conceding fewer goals with Coquelin / Elneny in there, the problem is more the other end of the pitch. Maybe Mertesacker would've been a better pick vs Andy Carroll but who knows.

And yet we have conceded 17 goals in our last 10 games.

And scored 20.

Which would seem to suggest the opposite to what you are saying.

And if you actually read the posts you love to snipe at on here you will see most posters are saying yes he started well enough but has regressed badly over the season and the last few games in particular. There is nothing wrong in saying a player had a good game or games - equally if the player is now shit, we are entitled to say that too.

Of course. It's just the extent to which someone becomes 'utter shit' after a loss. Tells me that people aren't all about judging on the long term at all and instead just let their emotions get the better of them in the short term.

The scapegoat culture is alive and well at Arsenal, dress it up how you want. Case in point: Ozil's assist record this season, yet he got dogs abuse at Tottenham away and several others I've been to. It is fucking comical if anyone judges Ozil's season as anything other than good.

[arseofacrow]

There is a stat out there somewhere about the high proportion of our goals conceded from set pieces / balls into the box. Again.

In open play we've been mostly pretty solid in the league this year, no amount of hand-wringing from you lot can change that. We've also shipped a few unnecessary ones when Mertesacker was playing earlier in the season and getting caught with a high line up the pitch with Bellerin unable to get back in time.

Laurent Koscielny is one of the best centre backs in the league. Not the best header at set pieces admittedly, but we lack anyone in our team who can do that. Mertesacker is past it sadly, Gabriel throws in a couple of shockers amongst some decent games. If you look back at the Everton thread I think it was, you lot were all praising him

Anyway we're conceding fewer goals with Coquelin / Elneny in there, the problem is more the other end of the pitch. Maybe Mertesacker would've been a better pick vs Andy Carroll but who knows.

And yet we have conceded 17 goals in our last 10 games.

And scored 20.

Which would seem to suggest the opposite to what you are saying.

And if you actually read the posts you love to snipe at on here you will see most posters are saying yes he started well enough but has regressed badly over the season and the last few games in particular. There is nothing wrong in saying a player had a good game or games - equally if the player is now shit, we are entitled to say that too.

Of course. It's just the extent to which someone becomes 'utter shit' after a loss. Tells me that people aren't all about judging on the long term at all and instead just let their emotions get the better of them in the short term.

The scapegoat culture is alive and well at Arsenal, dress it up how you want. Case in point: Ozil's assist record this season, yet he got dogs abuse at Tottenham away and several others I've been to. It is fucking comical if anyone judges Ozil's season as anything other than good.

It's football mate. from the dawn of time player's have received dogs abuse. And, here's the shocker, better ones than Ozil have got it in the neck. When did you start going to watch football because if you go back a bit, there's no way you can be shocked by anything that happens these days - if indeed it's allowed to happen without thought control stewards and fans setting the level.

And Ozil is not neccessarily entitled to a free pass If he's having a stinker.

[DB10GOONER]

There is a stat out there somewhere about the high proportion of our goals conceded from set pieces / balls into the box. Again.

In open play we've been mostly pretty solid in the league this year, no amount of hand-wringing from you lot can change that. We've also shipped a few unnecessary ones when Mertesacker was playing earlier in the season and getting caught with a high line up the pitch with Bellerin unable to get back in time.

Laurent Koscielny is one of the best centre backs in the league. Not the best header at set pieces admittedly, but we lack anyone in our team who can do that. Mertesacker is past it sadly, Gabriel throws in a couple of shockers amongst some decent games. If you look back at the Everton thread I think it was, you lot were all praising him

Anyway we're conceding fewer goals with Coquelin / Elneny in there, the problem is more the other end of the pitch. Maybe Mertesacker would've been a better pick vs Andy Carroll but who knows.

And yet we have conceded 17 goals in our last 10 games.

And scored 20.

Which would seem to suggest the opposite to what you are saying.

And if you actually read the posts you love to snipe at on here you will see most posters are saying yes he started well enough but has regressed badly over the season and the last few games in particular. There is nothing wrong in saying a player had a good game or games - equally if the player is now shit, we are entitled to say that too.

Of course. It's just the extent to which someone becomes 'utter shit' after a loss. Tells me that people aren't all about judging on the long term at all and instead just let their emotions get the better of them in the short term.

The scapegoat culture is alive and well at Arsenal, dress it up how you want. Case in point: Ozil's assist record this season, yet he got dogs abuse at Tottenham away and several others I've been to. It is fucking comical if anyone judges Ozil's season as anything other than good.

I agree there is a tendency towards the fickle but that is common amongst football fans not just this forum. There's a famous scene in the movie ID where the crowd are yelling "Fuck off Edwards", "You're shit, Edwards!!" etc at a player and when he scores they all instantly switch to singing "One Jimmy Edwards, there's only one Jimmy Edwards!!" I've seen stuff like that so often over the years.

Some of the comments on here about Ozil in particular have been ludicrous.

But I just don't think there is any denying that Mert has demonstrated utter cowardice on too many occasions for it to be dismissed as fickle opinion.

[officepest]

But who would we replace him with??!!!! Be careful what you wish for! We could end up doing a Leeds!!!

Did I miss any?

Portsmouth.

The minute Wenger leaves we'll enter administration and plummet down the leagues where we will forever tread water in league 2.

[begeegs]

But who would we replace him with??!!!! Be careful what you wish for! We could end up doing a Leeds!!!

Did I miss any?

Portsmouth.

The minute Wenger leaves we'll enter administration and plummet down the leagues where we will forever tread water in league 2.

That may finally get rid of Kroenke...

[Yankee_Gooner_Dandee]

Kos has bad moments for sure but he;s deffo good enough to be a starter. Needs a world class type partner though, and it's been longer than a decade since we had one of those.

[Sean]

The Old Fraud was very lucky to inherit the back five, who basically ran the team on the pitch. It's also pretty clear that Bouldy isn't allowed to have any input, which is scandalous in itself.

With the Invincibles defence; Campbell fell in his lap, Cole was a convenient replacement for Silvinho who then became one of the best LBs in the game, Lauren was previously a midfielder converted to a right back and no-one knew where Toure played until they tried him out at CB in a pre-season friendly. Add the influence of Martin Keown and you have a great defence assembled by luck and circumstance.

We need defenders (shit, players in general) who can run the game and be the manager on the pitch. TOF doesn't sign these players

[northbank123]

I see our old chum Steve Bould has got a mention.

Just to reiterate he either believes everything Wenger says or is simply a whore who accepts that the extent of his responsibility is to put the cones out and could have walked away at any point and taken a forward step.

Nobody should have any sympathy with him picking up a huge wage to sit on the bench moaning with Wenger and watching us stagnate year on year. That is he choice he has made and let's remember that he's spent his whole coaching career under Wenger - he's probably the biggest AKB working in football.

When Wenger goes he would undoubtedly be the first one I would want to follow him out of the door. Might not have any power but he is indoctrinated and part of the problem not the solution.

Bearing in mind how readily people slam our ex-players from that era for defending Wenger it astounds me how many people hold Bould immune for criticism. His credit has long since ran dry.

[GoonerMuzz]

I'm going to against the majority here and say i don't believe Kos is good enough, he has way too many brain farts, the reason he gets away with it is because often those around him have more.

But if you're talking top class CB then Kos doesn't come close for me, yes he puts in some good tackles and in open play his positioning is mostly good but for me way too often he is out muscled, case in point when Carroll was all over him at the weekend, a different ref/linesman and that free kick might have not been given, also far too often his positioning on crosses and free kicks is suspect usually though once again he gets away with it because more often than not the dead balls are coming from the far side and he is not the first CB.

Our defence is severely lacking leadership, in fact the only one coming out with much kudos this season is Nacho, Bellerin has been awful quite a few times this season too.

Lets be honest how many of our defenders would make the invincibles or earlier league winning teams

[Rosie_titters]

I'm going to against the majority here and say i don't believe Kos is good enough, he has way too many brain farts, the reason he gets away with it is because often those around him have more.

But if you're talking top class CB then Kos doesn't come close for me, yes he puts in some good tackles and in open play his positioning is mostly good but for me way too often he is out muscled, case in point when Carroll was all over him at the weekend, a different ref/linesman and that free kick might have not been given, also far too often his positioning on crosses and free kicks is suspect usually though once again he gets away with it because more often than not the dead balls are coming from the far side and he is not the first CB.

Our defence is severely lacking leadership, in fact the only one coming out with much kudos this season is Nacho, Bellerin has been awful quite a few times this season too.

Lets be honest how many of our defenders would make the invincibles or earlier league winning teams

I think Mertersacker and Kos would of been a success in our Invincible years or earlier league winning teams. Because their job would of beenmade easier because we had the likes of Vieira, Petit, Gilberto, Parlour and Ljungberg. Who were all grafters and would offered better protection than they get now. I rate both of them more than Kolo Toure, Cygan, Grimandi and they were apart of our succesful years.

[augie]

I see our old chum Steve Bould has got a mention.

Just to reiterate he either believes everything Wenger says or is simply a whore who accepts that the extent of his responsibility is to put the cones out and could have walked away at any point and taken a forward step.

Nobody should have any sympathy with him picking up a huge wage to sit on the bench moaning with Wenger and watching us stagnate year on year. That is he choice he has made and let's remember that he's spent his whole coaching career under Wenger - he's probably the biggest AKB working in football.

When Wenger goes he would undoubtedly be the first one I would want to follow him out of the door. Might not have any power but he is indoctrinated and part of the problem not the solution.

Bearing in mind how readily people slam our ex-players from that era for defending Wenger it astounds me how many people hold Bould immune for criticism. His credit has long since ran dry.

Could not agree more

[Sean]

I see our old chum Steve Bould has got a mention.

Just to reiterate he either believes everything Wenger says or is simply a whore who accepts that the extent of his responsibility is to put the cones out and could have walked away at any point and taken a forward step.

Nobody should have any sympathy with him picking up a huge wage to sit on the bench moaning with Wenger and watching us stagnate year on year. That is he choice he has made and let's remember that he's spent his whole coaching career under Wenger - he's probably the biggest AKB working in football.

When Wenger goes he would undoubtedly be the first one I would want to follow him out of the door. Might not have any power but he is indoctrinated and part of the problem not the solution.

Bearing in mind how readily people slam our ex-players from that era for defending Wenger it astounds me how many people hold Bould immune for criticism. His credit has long since ran dry.

I hardly think that Bouldy would be the first one to leave when TOF finally fucks off. He'd quite likely be relieved that the stubborn old cunnt has finally gone and that he would be allowed to be a coach again.

Bear in mind that Bouldy didn't want the job, as he knew Pat Rice was also stopped from doing anything worthwhile (PR also postponed his retirement by a season because Bould didn't want to leave the youth team). Then there was all the stories about Bould being stopped from initially coaching the lads a bit of defence ('Steve Bould Effect' and all that) and then he and TOF butting heads for the rest of the season because our defending all went to pot.

I know that Bould isn't popular on here and I know he has quietened down and accepted that he won't be allowed any input since he was threatened with the sack. I would certainly take his word over the shambles of our coaching set-up over TOF's.

Perhaps my fondness for Bouldy as a player has blinded me, but that's the way I see it. I understand that he is seen as having given in and 'sold out', but TOF has ultimate power, there's no getting around that.

Anyway, what the fuck does Boro Primorac actually do, apart from sit in the stands?

[GoonerMuzz]

I see our old chum Steve Bould has got a mention.

Just to reiterate he either believes everything Wenger says or is simply a whore who accepts that the extent of his responsibility is to put the cones out and could have walked away at any point and taken a forward step.

Nobody should have any sympathy with him picking up a huge wage to sit on the bench moaning with Wenger and watching us stagnate year on year. That is he choice he has made and let's remember that he's spent his whole coaching career under Wenger - he's probably the biggest AKB working in football.

When Wenger goes he would undoubtedly be the first one I would want to follow him out of the door. Might not have any power but he is indoctrinated and part of the problem not the solution.

Bearing in mind how readily people slam our ex-players from that era for defending Wenger it astounds me how many people hold Bould immune for criticism. His credit has long since ran dry.

I hardly think that Bouldy would be the first one to leave when TOF finally fucks off. He'd quite likely be relieved that the stubborn old cunnt has finally gone and that he would be allowed to be a coach again.

Bear in mind that Bouldy didn't want the job, as he knew Pat Rice was also stopped from doing anything worthwhile (PR also postponed his retirement by a season because Bould didn't want to leave the youth team). Then there was all the stories about Bould being stopped from initially coaching the lads a bit of defence ('Steve Bould Effect' and all that) and then he and TOF butting heads for the rest of the season because our defending all went to pot.

I know that Bould isn't popular on here and I know he has quietened down and accepted that he won't be allowed any input since he was threatened with the sack. I would certainly take his word over the shambles of our coaching set-up over TOF's.

Perhaps my fondness for Bouldy as a player has blinded me, but that's the way I see it. I understand that he is seen as having given in and 'sold out', but TOF has ultimate power, there's no getting around that.

Anyway, what the fuck does Boro Primorac actually do, apart from sit in the stands?

Sean i get your point on Bouldy but i have the opposite opinion, if he is so good and principled and loves the Arsenal so much why is he still there?

Surely if you were so shackled by AW the better thing and definitely the more principled thing for the club would be to walk away as loudly as possible making sure everyone knew why you were leaving

[northbank123]

If Bouldy didn't want the job and is frustrated at being stopped from doing anything WHY DOESNT HE FUCKING QUIT? The bloke could walk into a good managerial role - or certainly could have a few years back when his star was on the rise with an impressive CV before he decided to chuck the towel in.

He either doesn't know how to coach or isn't particularly bothered at being prevented from doing so as we run round like an U12 side.

Anybody who thinks that he is just biding his time until Wenger goes is completely kidding themselves. He has bought into Wenger in a huge way, Wenger would never appoint anybody other than a puppet as his number 2 and Bould fits the bill perfectly.

He has never worked other than under Wenger and this idea of him challenging Wenger and stories of him getting players by the scruff of the neck is just utter make-believe because it's what people want to hear.

Some of the vitriol on here for far bigger legends than Bould for a few "be careful what you wish for" comments is fucking laughable when this bloke is held up by some as a martyr.