US ARSENAL FANS

[gus ceasar is a legend]

I'm not knocking your views.

16 years is nothing compared to some in the premiership.
Look at these teams, all fairly big clubs.
Newcastle 1927
Liverpool 1990
Chelsea waited 50 years or so..??
Tottenham 1961
Everton 1987

don't you appreciate that this could have been us?

Oh what shite! I appreciate it so much more due to the fact I have been through the dark days of modern times! Do you know what it felt like to win the Littlewoods Cup in 87? It was like winning the fucking league! Believe me I appreciate it mate which is why I cannot stand th good times being tarnished due to players of the mindset and ability of Eboue!

[GallasVoice]

thats true.

I'll come back win I think of another comeback.

[augie]

As I said last night I had never before called any Arsenal player a *word censored* but last nights "efforts" from eboue and hleb were the straws that broke the camels back. These players have given us years of shite and got paid loads of bucks for the privilege and received almost unconditional support from the fans.

Enough is enough The very least we expect as fans is for players to give at least 100% and if they still aint good enough then so be it(god knows we have had a few of them down through the years ). I find the whole theme to this thread to be a load of shite to be honest and I will never tolerate any fan telling me to fuck off and support another team or telling me that I am not an Arsenal fan. Some of you younger fans obviously are not aware that football existed before the premiership and your all round positivety may well be commendable but for those of us that have supported the Gooners for over 30 years we have differing viewpoints and while you may not agree with them you should respect them or else piss off to arsenal.com where you will find more like minded fans

[26may1989]

In the stadium, during a match, especially a high pressure match, fans have a crucial role in driving the players forward, motivating them and intimidating the opposition.

But it is the right of fans to criticise their players, manager and board. It is our passion and our money that makes football what it is, that lifts it above all other sports and that gives it the magic aura it has. Oh and by the way, without our obsession with this game, multi-million pound contracts would be a figment of the players' agents' imaginations.

Much as I think double-standards are applied to Eboue, Arsenal fans have the right to criticise him and any other player, especially on something like an online forum.

It has always been this way. I started following Arsenal when I was about 8, in the mid 1970s, and I remember how passionate the fans were, both in celebrating the team's successes and its failures.

As rebel says, the 1970s to 1990s saw more frustration and failure than success. Once Brady and Stapleton had gone, it felt like we were the yesterday men, watching Spurs, Villa, Forest, QPR, Watford, Ipswich, Everton and of course the mighty, all conquering Liverpool move forward, leaving us with our memories of 1971 and all that. I was at the 1987 League Cup Final, and it was everything rebel says it was and more: we went absolutely mental, seeing our side win silverware at Wembley by beating Liverpool. We simply didn't believe we could ever scale those heights, and were in ecstacy seeing our players show us we could. The belief players and fans gained in winning the League Cup that year was a component in the championship wins in 1989 and 1991.

Yes, the fans of Newcastle, Leeds, Man U and Chelsea had even worse experiences than us, but anyone who followed Arsenal before George Graham was manager knew some pretty dark days. And even then, the second phase of GG (91 to 95) was as bad as anything under Terry Neill and Don Howe.

Steven Tyers' post at the top of this thread is well meant, but is wrong. Fans are what make this game what it is, and what make each club what it is. We're here long after the players have gone, and our passion is handed down from generation to generation. We have the right to say precisely what we want.

[gus ceasar is a legend]

It was me that said it George!

I was also there and the following year against Luton!

As we all know this was Gus's finest hour and the pain of losing "our" cup to that shower was as great as the jubilation the year before!

Remember that this is essentially the same trophy we now play our kids in..........that is how times have changed!

[donaldo]

I think there is 92 English teams in all 4 divisions,

89 have won less trophy's than us, and your claiming wev'e had it hard?

dosn't that say it all..been supporting Arsenal since I was born, 19 years. My Dad has since 1969...

89 other teams dont have 60,000 stadiums which charge the highest season ticket prices in the country.And are not the 5th richest club in Europe

[DB10GOONER]

I don't like knocking the younger fans because we were all younger fans once and no one has any say over when they are born. And I certainly don't begrudge the ones that have only known success under Wenger - half their luck please!

BUT;

To call us spoilt is a bit off, mate. I'm not gonna go through it all again as 26may nailed it in his post. The bad old days were pretty bad at times. I'd only add that what made those long terrible hopeless seasons knowing we'd achieve fuck all worse was the fact that for huge portions of that time we played horrible unnattractive boring football...

We've earned the right to criticise any motherfucker that carries on like Eboue.

[foofighter]

Having lost a reply that took 2 hours to write i will start again.

91-95 Bad???

We won the league in 91 having lost 1 game all season, we got revenge on the spuds in the 93 semi, we won the league cup and FA cup double the same year, we won the CWC in 94 and were finalists in 95.

BAD???!

A lot of people moan about the 'style' of football we played under George but football was very different in the old Div 1 and at the start of the Prem. However, we had players (Rocky, Limpar etc) that could display sublime skill and we loved them for it, we critisised them as well but not by hurling abuse.

Englands run in Italia 90 revived interest in english football and with conversion to all seater stadia a lot of fans that had stayed away in the 80's along with a whole new generation started to push up gate receipts.
Popularity increased, SKY got involved and as far as the finance of the game is concerned the rest is history.

The players have changed also. Where you could play with a hangover or spend your evenings falling down stairs in nightclubs, play for a club with a famous 'wage stucture' that meant you would never be retiring to a life of riley and never considered leaving your first club let alone the country that has all changed.
The money in the game, the ultra professionalism of managers like Mr Wenger, the european superstar staus on offer has meant players have to be and be treated as elite athletes. Their commitment goes beyond turning up for training and now has to dictate their whole way of life.

The fans have changed alarmingly too. Where you could turn up at the turnstiles 10 mins before the match (providing it wasn't an all ticket game of which there weren't many) part with your fiver, grab a programme and go and stand with your friends/family life is very different.
You used to serve an apprenticeship, influenced by previous generations of fans and family members who surrounded you. When people got too old or moaned too much they made way on the terraces for the next generation and headed off to east or west upper or the family enclosure to educate the really young ones.
We lost terracing and with it the ability to have choice about where we could sit with the advent of TRS. For a couple of seasons if you wanted a TRS membership you just got one. For most games you got to sit in the stands you wanted but sometimes found yourself with the moaners who you could usually jolly along and end up having a laugh with.
1998 came and went and the popularity of Arsenal went through the roof. Tickets became increasingly like gold dust and unless they were under 16 the new generation of fans got shut out. TRS turned to silver. Red was invented and we moved.
Fans were further broken up with the move. A North Bank lower middle season ticket was the same price bracket as the front rows of the new upper tier and you had to take it or be made to wait until all season ticket holders had chosen their new seats, most people wouldn't risk it and went with what was on offer.
The cheaper lower tier seats went to clockenders and newly promoted goldmembers.
I sit next to a gold member who went to Highbury a handful of times. They never had TRS/silver membership but were quicksmart on the season ticket waiting list back in 1998 and waited their turn.
All that time people bought memberships and waited with very few opportunities to attend matches at Highbury now they are getting tickets at the new ground. They haven't served an apprenticeship surrounded by previous generations actually at matches they have served it on membership boards and forums.
This has created two distinct types of fan, neither of which i have any time for.
Firstly the members of the instant gratification generation, onlt too aware of how much they are paying for their entertainment and totally au fait with their RIGHT to say exactly what they want. They hurl abuse at players and turn on fellow gooners if asked to put a lid on it. They call players c*unts even when sat in the family enclosure and don't care what anyone thinks they have a right to express their opinion. If they put as much effort into getting behind the team instead of abusing it they might improve the atmosphere they all moan about.
Secondly, again people only too aware of their rights. Totally preoccupied with their 'matchday experience' they spend their time texting the club about other fans, chants, standing, the Y word. They wouldn't dream of abusing the players they just want to destroy any kind of fun.

I hate both types, in equal measure. I stand in the middle ground between the two types and how i wish i was back at Highbury.

Fans writing on forums and message boards either are or have had a big hand in creating both these types of fans.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves particularly if you know better.

Ok i'm new here but i'm not new to Arsenal. This is my opinion and i want more middle ground please.

[REB]

big post,, no one brought up 91-95
all the replys were from 71 -87 to that littlewoods cup win against liverpool,,

no one wants to abuse the players at the ground and agree that support of the team is more productive then slagging,,
but you missed the point and that was about people having the right to have a go at players if they felt fit too

and it seems to boil down to ageism,,
people who remember the bad old days dont want to go back to them and the guys who are newish to arsenal only remember success,,
as i said earlier i hate to give out about a gooner but if some would show more pride in the shirt then that wouldnt happen,
but i also stand by my right to free speech and if i want to have a moan on a forum then i will continue to do so

[foofighter]

Yes, the fans of Newcastle, Leeds, Man U and Chelsea had even worse experiences than us, but anyone who followed Arsenal before George Graham was manager knew some pretty dark days. And even then, the second phase of GG (91 to 95) was as bad as anything under Terry Neill and Don Howe.


Above I believe is about 91-95 and i didn't say it.

I'm not trying to curtail anybodys right to free speech but if you think you can take calling players c*nts on a forum to matches and shout it out loud take responsibility for causing trouble between fans.

[GoonerJoe88]

I think that players should receive constructive criticism if they play for the club. I don't think shouting and swearing at someone who plays for your team is necessarily any good for them but if were honest we have all got carried away at one point when maybe a player who is highly committed has made one mistake or put in the odd bad performance.
Also, why should the amount of time someone has supported the team for or what they have been through really be important amongst us fans when we debate these issues. If you have supported the club week in week out for the last 30 years fair play to you but it makes your opinion no more valid than someone who started supporting the team in 2004. People who get trapped in these kinds of arguments miss the point completely, were all arsenal fans, we all have different views but none is more legitimate than any others simply as a result of how long they have supported the team.
We all have to realize now that it is alot of money to watch premiership football every week and the expectations of those who come to watch our fantastic team at our fantastic stadium every week have been inflated on a massive scale since 1998. This does not just apply to season ticket holders, but also silver and red members who have to fork out around 40-60 quid a game. With this rise in cost and expectation, criticism of our own team is simply a by-product if they fail to compete on the level set by competitors like United and Chelsea.

[DB10GOONER]

This has created two distinct types of fan, neither of which i have any time for.
Firstly the members of the instant gratification generation, onlt too aware of how much they are paying for their entertainment and totally au fait with their RIGHT to say exactly what they want. They hurl abuse at players and turn on fellow gooners if asked to put a lid on it. They call players c*unts even when sat in the family enclosure and don't care what anyone thinks they have a right to express their opinion. If they put as much effort into getting behind the team instead of abusing it they might improve the atmosphere they all moan about.
Secondly, again people only too aware of their rights. Totally preoccupied with their 'matchday experience' they spend their time texting the club about other fans, chants, standing, the Y word. They wouldn't dream of abusing the players they just want to destroy any kind of fun.

Fucking huge sweeping generalisation there mate. There are way more than two types of fan; the old moaner, the old rose tinted spectacle wearer, the newbie moaner, the newbie rose tinted spectacle wearer, the fairweather but minted enough to go fan, the old die hard, the young die hard... just to name a few.

I think you'll find that no one (or at least the majority) on here is advocating booing Eboue or calling him a c*nt at the ground, because that may hinder Arsenal during a game. We see the bigger picture.

I can only speak for myself here but I sing, chant and roar encouragement at every game I go to. Have done since 90/91. I'm always behind the team. But if I want to moan because someone is not giving their all (for 80 grand a f*cking week in some cases) or if they are carrying on like a crunt, then I will. I won't ever boo a man in an Arsenal jersey or call him a c*nt, but I will give out if he merits it. Especially if he is embarrassing our club and betraying our tradition by cheating, diving, and taking no pride in the shirt.

I don't give a flying f*ck if he can be viewed as an elite athlete. He earns my respect, he is not entitled to it. And if he doesn't earn any respect from the crowd, I'm not exactly gonna feel sorry for him, he is well compensated with his exhorbitant wages.

Fans writing on forums and message boards either are or have had a big hand in creating both these types of fans.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves particularly if you know better.

I'm sorry, mate, but that is just f*cking stupid. How in God's name did we "create" a particular type of fan? People either come to a football ground or they don't.

Ashamed? Are you f*cking on one or what?

[foofighter]

LMAO

Doesn't take much to get you lot worked up.
Good stuff now put all that energy into getting behind the team instead of abusing them

[augie]

LMAO

Doesn't take much to get you lot worked up.
Good stuff now put all that energy into getting behind the team instead of abusing them

If some of the players put as much energy into their play as we have done in supporting this team then we wouldnt even be having this debate As DBGooner correctly pointed out the players have to earn the respect of the fans and as far as I am concerned there are at least 2 players abusing their position and it is unacceptable Over the years you will find countless examples of players who, while not top class players, still received backing from the fans because of the effort,hard work and excellent attitude - Perry groves is a case in point and his popularity with the fans remains today and if you are totally honest with yourself you would admit that you could never imagine the likes of eboue or hleb being invited to the rocket after they retire cos their application to the cause will never earn them a place in our hearts.

Have to say in summation though mate that it is time you climbed off your high moral cloud and joined the rest of the world instead of throwing up that judgemental crap on this thread. Instead of blaming us maybe you should consider that it is the likes of you, who supports a player no matter how lazy arrogant and dispicable they are, that causes players like eboue to show a non interest attitude to playing for our club

[tenementfunster5]

Everyone has the right to their opinion, and my opinion is thast Eboue is a cheat and not good enough to play for Arsenal. Theo gets the crowd behind him because he is Ebglish and when he plays he looks to play the Arsenal way. I think Eboue has himself to blame for any critisism he gets. Bendtner gets stick 'cos of his over inflated opinion of himself and the fact he seems to cause trouble. I dont hear much abbuse in the ground for players, other than Eboue, so i dont see it as a problem.