What needs to happen to prove Wenger right?

[MegaGooner]

how do I reduce the pixels of a pic so I can have an avatar btw...?

MS has a free picture resizer....just google it.

Otherwise just find a random pic on the net and add the image brackets between them.

Hope it helps

[highburyJD]

I'm a mac monkey so has 2b4 OSX not windows

[mrgnu1958]

What makes him more likely to tow the party line is he cannot get another job where he will be under so little pressure to produce better resulta and the same kind of money or he would be there now.

The bottom line is simple - do the Board want more money spent yes or no? If they do not then are they not repsonsible no matter how you try to color it. After all Mr. Wenger is their employee, not the other way around.

Like I say show me piece of independently varifiable evidence that the Board would not limit how much any other manager would spend. Not the Board's words show me someone independent like the Swiss Ramble or Simon Kuper or Paul Tomkins or some top football economice journalist like David Conn.

sorry USMART"y..i only read the 1st paragraph and may i say..ANY CLUB WOULD TAKE ARSENE IN A HEARTBEAT.

[MegaGooner]

I'm a mac monkey so has 2b4 OSX not windows

Well done mac monkey....just follow this four easy steps............


Step 1. Console yourself to the fact that you won't be getting a virus 'cos you a mac user.

Step 2. Console yourself to the fact that you have the best OS ever

Step3. Go on to random chatrooms or forums and claim "I have the greatest" 'cos it's a mac.

Step 4. Accept the fact that you won't have a nice avatar pic 'cos nobody can help you sort your mac out

[Arsenal 1991]

I'm a mac monkey so has 2b4 OSX not windows

Open the imagine in preview (double click), then click on tools at the top. Adjust size is fourth one down.

Simples.

[USMartin]

I try and start a debate with you, then you remind me why I don't bother.

I just haven't got the time to post essays, I'll save that for uni.

I summarise it for you:

I believe that AW is choosing not to spend the money that is available to spend. This is my opinion based on what I have seen and heard. It is not based on any solid facts, neither is yours however you like to paint it.

Now just leave it alone and lets us debate football matters until the season is over. The window is shut so financial matters should be left alone until results are realised or the window is open again.

OK?

Here's the problem what I am saying is based on some real facts pertaining to spending figures before and after 2005 as well as the re-cofigured wage structure. It ia also based upon the fact that the decision to re-develop Highbury rather than selling obviously left us with a cash flow problem we did not have prior to that time and certainly would not have had had we sold it.

The whole basis of your view is your desire to believe it.

You cannot cite anything beyond that. You can hide behind your phony rules for discussion but the reality is you are just dodging answering questions you cannot because they don't support your view.

Again was the manager forced to spend more money by the Board before 2005, and if so why not after 2005, and if he wasn't why would impair his own chances to contnue to win prizes if he did not have to?

[USMartin]

Or you can just keep banging your head wondering why he doesn't spend money and the Board won't do a damn thing other than sell shares that keep increasing in value. Whether I say anything or not you'll probably be doing that and pretending you can't understand why - again.

[northbankbren]

US how much divedends have the share holders taken in the last 5 years????

If you were a board member what would be your advise to wenger at the board meeting????

Oh and if yo were a board member would you be happy with the clubs current position?????

PLEASE JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS....THE 2ND TWO QUESTIONS I WANT A YES OR A NO OR COURSE WITH AN EXPLINATION....NO IF/BUTS/MAYBES/JUST WHAT YOR REAL REACTION WOULD BE.

If you dont want to just give a straight response with an actual answer ie yes or no....dont bother.

[augie]

US how much divedends have the share holders taken in the last 5 years????

If you were a board member what would be your advise to wenger at the board meeting????

Oh and if yo were a board member would you be happy with the clubs current position?????

PLEASE JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS....THE 2ND TWO QUESTIONS I WANT A YES OR A NO OR COURSE WITH AN EXPLINATION....NO IF/BUTS/MAYBES/JUST WHAT YOR REAL REACTION WOULD BE.

If you dont want to just give a straight response with an actual answer ie yes or no....dont bother.

Let me answer them first bren -

1. The board doesnt have to take a dividend to profit and we all know that. The financial accounts continue to boost the value of their shareholdings to an all time high so what was initially a moderate investment for some (or inheritence for others) will turn into a massive windfall when they cash in. Collecting dividends now will make them richer in the short term but in the long term the no dividends plan makes much more financial sense.

2. My advice to wenger would be to bring in some proven quality players. Every fcuking season we hear about injuries crippling us and the simple truth is that we are threadbare in crucial areas. As a shareholder I would want wenger to bring success back to the club so commercially the club can start maximising its potential again. I would also want to safeguard a generation of young potential fans who can be swayed towards a club depending on success or failure.

3. Yes and no. I would look at our position and be pleasently surprised and happy that we are where we are given the lack of overall quality in the playing staff. However I would also be frustrated knowing that success is very close but that we appear to be heading down the same roard as we did in each of the last two times we have been in this position. Finally I would be very very concerned at the amount of our best players that appear to be leaving year on year. I would be looking at our captain and his perceived lack of belief in the direction and ambition of our club and would want this area addressed asap

That clear bren ?

[stg]

I try and start a debate with you, then you remind me why I don't bother.

I just haven't got the time to post essays, I'll save that for uni.

I summarise it for you:

I believe that AW is choosing not to spend the money that is available to spend. This is my opinion based on what I have seen and heard. It is not based on any solid facts, neither is yours however you like to paint it.

Now just leave it alone and lets us debate football matters until the season is over. The window is shut so financial matters should be left alone until results are realised or the window is open again.

OK?

Here's the problem what I am saying is based on some real facts pertaining to spending figures before and after 2005 as well as the re-cofigured wage structure. It ia also based upon the fact that the decision to re-develop Highbury rather than selling obviously left us with a cash flow problem we did not have prior to that time and certainly would not have had had we sold it.

The whole basis of your view is your desire to believe it.

You cannot cite anything beyond that. You can hide behind your phony rules for discussion but the reality is you are just dodging answering questions you cannot because they don't support your view.

Again was the manager forced to spend more money by the Board before 2005, and if so why not after 2005, and if he wasn't why would impair his own chances to contnue to win prizes if he did not have to?

What your saying USM is based on your interpritation of those figures and the fact that in hindsight re-developing the stadium did not prove to be such a money spinner as the board and the property developers thought it was going to be due to the global finacial meltdown.

Your quote "The whole basis of your view is your desire to believe it."
is the same as yours, mine or anybody elses we all have a view and that is what we belive. Your not going to say "my view is this but I dont belive it" are you northbankbren has made his view and that is what he belives you cant moan that he has a view.

Your view USM is based on an opinion that you have, you cite other blogs, spreadsheets, reports and posts you have made to make your point but there is a chance these blogs and reports have thier own agenda, the spreadsheets could be wrong and so your posts might be tainted by these facts we dont know and because these support your view you dont know either.

Do you know for fact that the board "FORCED" Wenger to spend before 2005 or are you asumming because the facts from a spreedsheet show that Wenger spent more on player before this date. It seems to me (and others but I think I am old enough to make my own opinions) that Wenger and the board took the long term view to start living within thier means, perhaps in 2005 Arsenal football club sat down and looked at 2 courses of action a)carry on as we have been doing sucsesfull but in the end it will catch up with us spending wise and in the long term will need bailing out or b) start living with our means promote youth, buy wisley and spend where needed and with reason.

The argument you are having there are no right or wrongs just lots of if's, but's and maybes. You maybe(!) proved right and Arsenal Football Club will go to hell in a hand cart but(!) maybe(!) not, if(!) Arsenal do get taken over by a leveraged takeover it maybe(!) bad for us but then again in maybe(!) not just because it has been bad for other clubs does that mean it's going to be bad for Arsenal who knows. I dont and Im sure you dont know 100%.

[USMartin]

stg I am in a hurry so I will only comment on two points -

First I do not believe anyone for Mr. Wenger to spend before 2005. I was replaying to 1991 suggesting maybe the Board should force him to spend now. My point was why did he spend then when money was available but won't now when it is? Simply does not make real sense, nor does the fact that the Board would be satisfied with the results if that actually were the case.

Second I am not the person who said he trusts blogs more than offiicial Premier League Investigations when their findings do not support his. Most of conclusions actually come from media reports from a number of sources though I always opt for the most legitimate such sources whereever and when ever possible - the Club itself and its website-, newspapers such as the Times The Guardian, The independent, and the Telegraph, and Media sites such as Sky Sports and ESPN Soccernet, and Financial sites such as Futbol Finance, The Tompkins Times, The Swiss Ramble, and the book Soccernomics by Simon Kuper.

No I don't rely on emotionally driven blogs or sites that solely promote my views in any way. I hope my views are wrong - I want them to be wrong - my worry is whether they are or not.

[QuartzGooner]

No I don't rely on emotionally driven blogs or sites that solely promote my views in any way. I hope my views are wrong - I want them to be wrong - my worry is whether they are or not.

I am with STG on this.

USMartin, you quote as fact, things that are in fact, your opinion.

Your mate's spreadsheet of transfers that you quote as part of your artillery was proven to have omissions, the Ashley Cole report that you repeatedly quote is about one player, and who is to say that players and staff in that report did not lie under oath?

If you are so worried your views are wrong, then investigate them properly instead of arguing them on here, for the best part of the last year, with people who have nothing to do with the board.

[Arsenal 1991]

stg I am in a hurry so I will only comment on two points -

First I do not believe anyone for Mr. Wenger to spend before 2005. I was replaying to 1991 suggesting maybe the Board should force him to spend now. My point was why did he spend then when money was available but won't now when it is? Simply does not make real sense, nor does the fact that the Board would be satisfied with the results if that actually were the case.

Second I am not the person who said he trusts blogs more than offiicial Premier League Investigations when their findings do not support his. Most of conclusions actually come from media reports from a number of sources though I always opt for the most legitimate such sources whereever and when ever possible - the Club itself and its website-, newspapers such as the Times The Guardian, The independent, and the Telegraph, and Media sites such as Sky Sports and ESPN Soccernet, and Financial sites such as Futbol Finance, The Tompkins Times, The Swiss Ramble, and the book Soccernomics by Simon Kuper.

No I don't rely on emotionally driven blogs or sites that solely promote my views in any way. I hope my views are wrong - I want them to be wrong - my worry is whether they are or not.

People change?

Are you saying that everything that Arsene has said with regards to transfers and finances are a lie that he has been forced stick with, by the board.

If funds were being withheld from him Im pretty sure he would've jumped ship by now.

[northbankbren]

Let me answer them first bren -

1. The board doesnt have to take a dividend to profit and we all know that. The financial accounts continue to boost the value of their shareholdings to an all time high so what was initially a moderate investment for some (or inheritence for others) will turn into a massive windfall when they cash in. Collecting dividends now will make them richer in the short term but in the long term the no dividends plan makes much more financial sense.

2. My advice to wenger would be to bring in some proven quality players. Every fcuking season we hear about injuries crippling us and the simple truth is that we are threadbare in crucial areas. As a shareholder I would want wenger to bring success back to the club so commercially the club can start maximising its potential again. I would also want to safeguard a generation of young potential fans who can be swayed towards a club depending on success or failure.

3. Yes and no. I would look at our position and be pleasently surprised and happy that we are where we are given the lack of overall quality in the playing staff. However I would also be frustrated knowing that success is very close but that we appear to be heading down the same roard as we did in each of the last two times we have been in this position. Finally I would be very very concerned at the amount of our best players that appear to be leaving year on year. I would be looking at our captain and his perceived lack of belief in the direction and ambition of our club and would want this area addressed asap

That clear bren ?

Yep all that clear, especially the 2nd point which I agree 100% with, but not sure what type of a reaction this would bring form wenger or the other board members. But that really is a fans view rather than a board members view. Im sure there are members of the board who arent fans of the club at heart. If i was one of those, Id question why money is needed to be spent, when we are currently 2nd in the league, in a wembley final, and in all other competitions. This Im sure would be wengers reaction also.

On the third point again I agree its not clear, but the fact is as a buisness the club is doing very well, the share price is increasing and the debt is being paid of well ahead of schedule. And there is surplus cash available for transfers if the manager actually wants them. I'd be happy. (As a fan its different).

My point on dividends was totally directed at US, he constantly talks about the board, not spending money, keeping it for themselves blah blah blah. As you know augie he finds it impossible not to go on about the board. Yet fails to realise that as a buisness the club is run very very well by the board. All US wants is the same as all of us, a couple of players to boost the squad, but tries to come across like some kind revolutionary against the board. If we were in massive debt, struggling to stay in the prem with falling attendences he might have a point.

[USMartin]

No I don't rely on emotionally driven blogs or sites that solely promote my views in any way. I hope my views are wrong - I want them to be wrong - my worry is whether they are or not.

I am with STG on this.

USMartin, you quote as fact, things that are in fact, your opinion.

Your mate's spreadsheet of transfers that you quote as part of your artillery was proven to have omissions, the Ashley Cole report that you repeatedly quote is about one player, and who is to say that players and staff in that report did not lie under oath?

If you are so worried your views are wrong, then investigate them properly instead of arguing them on here, for the best part of the last year, with people who have nothing to do with the board.

You are the last person to analyze my arguments Quartz.

Let's just start with the Ashley Cole one. You insist that bloggers have presented events more accurately than Premier League Investigators with access to the parties involved their testimony in depositions as well as the written records of the participants because bloggers support your view.

Or how about Sol Campbell's departiure this year which you sated as fact was down to his desire to live closer to his family which in fact was reported - on entertainment and gossip websites - but chose to ignore Campbell's own comments to ESPN posted on soccernet which stated he was ready to return but the money to meet his wages would not be made available. for that. Yet even after that article was linked the quotes posted you insisted that he left to be closer to his family and no other reason.

Then of course there is deliberate conflating of the Highbury redevelopment and the new stadium as though the redevelopment was necessary to completing the new stadium whioch you even acknowledged was untrue. Or your issistence we should wait fifty years before we judge the decision to redevelop Higbhury as that was a similar time frame to the East and West Stands being paid off and then making the club money, despite the fact that Highbury Square has already been paid for in full and produced nearly 100% of all possible profits within five years, a discrepancey you deliberately choose to withhold in making your argument calling it a "technicality".


You are the last person tp to take this up. Seriously. You seem to believe that whatever you want to believe ois truth even after it has been reasonably and objectively discredited, and that 's not based on my view of the facts, that is based on hiow the facts compeare to reading of them.