phil dowd

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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MK Gould
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Post by MK Gould »

Eboue-Why? wrote:This may wind a few people up but I'm gonna say it anyway!! I tried being a ref for a couple of years and believe me it is so much harder than you think. I'm in no way defending Dowd because in particular the Nolan 'attack' on our keeper had to be a red. All I'll say on the 2nd pen is that you see Rosciky's hands go up and their player falls over and there are a couple of appeals and he put 2 and 2 together and got 564. A shocking, wrong call, but from his angle, he obviously thought it was a pen. Hopefully now he's sat at home squirming in his armchair, not understanding why he gave it.

I don't believe for a second he's bent. Biased after Lee Mason and Cesc? Who knows, but reffing is a bloody hard job and all you can do is give what you see. (for what it's worth, I don't think Barton's challenge on Diaby was bad either)

Today in the Chelsea game, those 2 handballs near the end of the game. One outside the box given, one inside not. Ball to hand or hand to ball? Who cares, they lost, that's all that matters
You'll be trying to get us to believe that he is human next...... :roll: !

No excuses - he had a stinker and deserves to be suspended. If a ref is in any doubt about a penalty that he has to give the benefit of the doubt to the defending team.

I've also refereed and run the line many times. Some games can be very tough. Yesterday wasn't one of them though. He just fucked up.

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safcftm
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Post by safcftm »

slevinlacey wrote:Always had my suspicions with Dowd. The extra time he played against Sunderland that eventually cost us and numerous big decisions in the game on Saturday.

1st half injury time, two minutes went up. Anyone who watched the game would have seen he played just under 4 minutes, and there was a clear foul by Barton where he just waved on. Sometimes refs give sympathy decisions when a home team is getting hammered and this is what seemed the case on Saturday!

If that prick comes back to n5 he deserves a few coins in his direction just to let him know what we think. After he came back after Sunderland game he seemed to get away with it or people just forgot he was the one who stitched us!
Was ignoring this at first but a couple of people have mentioned so sorry lads but need to reply :lol:

Against SAFC the board came up as a minimum of 4 minutes, our goal was scored after about 4 minutes 20 seconds. A ref does not have to play a set number of minutes, if he thinks there is 4 minutes 20 seconds to add on, then it is communicated to the crowd as "a minimum of 4 minutes". The goal went in before 5 minutes had been played so there is no reason to assume he added "too much" time on. Also, during the injury time, Arsenal were slowing play down at throw ins etc, and we had a corner, and you expect a small amount of time added on for things like that.

As it says in that bastion of journalism The Sun:
http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/sunder ... -27296473/

"Wenger was furious, complaining bitterly to fourth official Martin Atkinson and tapping his wrist in the direction of referee Phil Dowd, indicating that he felt the full-time whistle should have gone.

In fact, Bent’s strike came 10 seconds after the allotted minimum four minutes injury-time had elapsed. But Dowd was in the clear, as Sunderland had won a corner in injury-time and were entitled to expect extra time to be added while the ball was out of play."


Anyway, as you were :wink:

richpye
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Post by richpye »

My feeling with Refs is most of them are failed wannabe footballers. I think the biggest problem is that a lot of them are now treated as celebrities and its just got to some of them.

Dowd was shit on Saturday end of as were his lino's but the way he marched around the pitch, especially after the final whistle wound me up. He had the face of someone who was clearly pleased that he had influenced the outcome of the game.

I just don't see how technology and a challenges process couldn't be built into the game. Set challenge time limits of 30 seconds after the incident to appeal and charge incorrect appeals with the loss of a subsitution will keep it all in check.

The game is just too quick for the human eye now. Look at Samaras's run for Celtic against Rangers today. The guy was about 3 yards onside and the linesman still didn't see it. Do I think the Lino was biased...no, I just think he wasn't able to look at two places at the same time

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MK Gould
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Post by MK Gould »

safcftm wrote:
slevinlacey wrote:Always had my suspicions with Dowd. The extra time he played against Sunderland that eventually cost us and numerous big decisions in the game on Saturday.

1st half injury time, two minutes went up. Anyone who watched the game would have seen he played just under 4 minutes, and there was a clear foul by Barton where he just waved on. Sometimes refs give sympathy decisions when a home team is getting hammered and this is what seemed the case on Saturday!

If that prick comes back to n5 he deserves a few coins in his direction just to let him know what we think. After he came back after Sunderland game he seemed to get away with it or people just forgot he was the one who stitched us!
Was ignoring this at first but a couple of people have mentioned so sorry lads but need to reply :lol:

Against SAFC the board came up as a minimum of 4 minutes, our goal was scored after about 4 minutes 20 seconds. A ref does not have to play a set number of minutes, if he thinks there is 4 minutes 20 seconds to add on, then it is communicated to the crowd as "a minimum of 4 minutes". The goal went in before 5 minutes had been played so there is no reason to assume he added "too much" time on. Also, during the injury time, Arsenal were slowing play down at throw ins etc, and we had a corner, and you expect a small amount of time added on for things like that.

As it says in that bastion of journalism The Sun:
http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/sunder ... -27296473/

"Wenger was furious, complaining bitterly to fourth official Martin Atkinson and tapping his wrist in the direction of referee Phil Dowd, indicating that he felt the full-time whistle should have gone.

In fact, Bent’s strike came 10 seconds after the allotted minimum four minutes injury-time had elapsed. But Dowd was in the clear, as Sunderland had won a corner in injury-time and were entitled to expect extra time to be added while the ball was out of play."


Anyway, as you were :wink:
There was inconsistency the weekend of that game wasn't there? Dowd allowed additional time for an attack to finish. Yet in another match (sorry, can't remember which one) a referee blew as soon as time was up. And if you seriously think that its correct for a referee to add on time for a ball being out of play then why don't we end up with 20-30 mins of additional time at the end of every match....?

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goonersid
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Post by goonersid »

Okay Dowd had a stinker, but I think we should point the finger where the blame truly lies. And that is at the manager and the players, who are making throwing away comfortable leads something of a habit.
FFS, 4-0 up against a poor team playing their 3rd or 4th choice striker. This really was another all time low, for the team with "great mental strength"

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flash gunner
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Post by flash gunner »

goonersid wrote:Okay Dowd had a stinker, but I think we should point the finger where the blame truly lies. And that is at the manager and the players, who are making throwing away comfortable leads something of a habit.
FFS, 4-0 up against a poor team playing their 3rd or 4th choice striker. This really was another all time low, for the team with "great mental strength"
Agreed. Its so easy to use Dowd as an excuse but the blame for this result lies squarely on the team and Wengers shoulders

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marcengels
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Post by marcengels »

MK Gould wrote:
safcftm wrote:
Was ignoring this at first but a couple of people have mentioned so sorry lads but need to reply :lol:

Against SAFC the board came up as a minimum of 4 minutes, our goal was scored after about 4 minutes 20 seconds. A ref does not have to play a set number of minutes, if he thinks there is 4 minutes 20 seconds to add on, then it is communicated to the crowd as "a minimum of 4 minutes". The goal went in before 5 minutes had been played so there is no reason to assume he added "too much" time on. Also, during the injury time, Arsenal were slowing play down at throw ins etc, and we had a corner, and you expect a small amount of time added on for things like that.

As it says in that bastion of journalism The Sun:
http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/sunder ... -27296473/

"Wenger was furious, complaining bitterly to fourth official Martin Atkinson and tapping his wrist in the direction of referee Phil Dowd, indicating that he felt the full-time whistle should have gone.

In fact, Bent’s strike came 10 seconds after the allotted minimum four minutes injury-time had elapsed. But Dowd was in the clear, as Sunderland had won a corner in injury-time and were entitled to expect extra time to be added while the ball was out of play."


Anyway, as you were :wink:
There was inconsistency the weekend of that game wasn't there? Dowd allowed additional time for an attack to finish. Yet in another match (sorry, can't remember which one) a referee blew as soon as time was up. And if you seriously think that its correct for a referee to add on time for a ball being out of play then why don't we end up with 20-30 mins of additional time at the end of every match....?
Agreed MKG

safc - I dont have any problem with the timekeeping at the sunderland game - as you say, it says a minimum of, so... But for you to suggest that you would expect time added on for the reasons stated, is bollocks. It doesn't happen, and as MKG says, if it did, we'd have another half of football in every game.

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safcftm
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Post by safcftm »

marcengels wrote:Agreed MKG

safc - I dont have any problem with the timekeeping at the sunderland game - as you say, it says a minimum of, so... But for you to suggest that you would expect time added on for the reasons stated, is bollocks. It doesn't happen, and as MKG says, if it did, we'd have another half of football in every game.
Well, maybe not for the corner I suppose, but Arsenal were deliberately slowing play down when they had throw ins etc so I would expect a bit of time added on for that. It wasn't bad enough that any of the AFC players got booked for timewasting, but if the ref feels they are taking a bit too long to restart, he is perfectly entitled to add a bit of time on to cover it. I must admit, I knew time was pretty much up and when the corner was initially headed away I was a bit surprised (although at the game so didnt know the exact amount of time gone) that he let Zenden pump it back into the middle, but all I am saying is that if the ref gives 4 minutes and we score on 95:25 or something I could understand the feeling of being robbed, but he said a minimum of 4 and we scored about 94:20 (the sun says it was 94:10 but I'm pretty sure it was a bit later than that). We're talking twenty seconds, which is hardly a shit load extra to add on if he feels that the game has been getting slowed down in injury time. A minimum could mean he felt there was 4 and a half minutes anyway, but even if he thought it was bang on 4 minutes, an extra 20 seconds is hardly a criminal amount to add on for various things that have happened during the injury time (it is 8.3% over the 4 minutes, so over a half it would be like adding on 3 or 4 minutes a half, which would be hefty bearing in mind no subs were made, but again, hardly ridiculous)

Anyway, its ancient history I suppose, but where I do agree with you is the consistency. I seem to remember not long after our game there was a Man Utd (surprise, surprise) goal well after the alloted injury time was up, plus there is the issue of how much is added on in the first place- we (as in SAFC and Arsenal) seem to get 3 or 4 minutes, but United regularly seem to get 5 or 6 when chasing a game. As always, its the consistency that people need to see in these decisions- 20 seconds extra isn't much but I suppose if its the case that if we were playing Man United the ref would have blown bang on 94 minutes (which he probably would have done), then Arsenal have real cause to complain. I guess I just get touchy about it because whenever we get a good result against a big 4 side we seem to get no credit for it (against Arsenal, where we conceded a freak goal and then played very well and deserved an equaliser we get told its because of the referee giving too much added time, against chelsea where we win 3-0 at the bridge we're told its because of injuries and ray bloody wilkins leaving, last year against Liverpool it was because of a beachball which their fans threw on in a game we easily deserved the win etc)

Anyway, back to refs :lol: , consistency is definitely needed, and it was very well highlighted in the Diaby/ Nolan incidents

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Bradywasking
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Post by Bradywasking »

Two valid points in the last few posts, one the time shown on the board is a minimum time,and there was no excuse for the defending of Sunderland's goal against Arsenal. Players don't or shouldn't know the time shown has exactly elapsed. Now on the other hand if the referee can allow an extra thirty seconds because a corner was awarded during the allotted minimum time, then he must take every corner , free kick and throw in into account before deciding on the amount of minimum injury time he is allotting. So if a game has a total of 15 corners ,12 goal-kicks, 25 free-kicks and 17 throw-ins all of those must be taken into account at the end of each half, as well as genuine injuries and time wasting. We would be there all day.
Dowd was a joke Saturday, had no problem with Diaby's red card, reaction may have been somewhat understandable but as a professional in the circumstances it was stupid. The second penalty was unbelievable, even Graham Poll said so. I thought Barton's foul on Diaby was a red card, sickening to hear pundits defend him and he himself lecturing on discipline. Nolan also should have saw red..RVP's goal should possibly have stood but in fairness so should Best's for Newcastle.
Don't honestly believe refs like Dowd or Mason are bent, but they are incompetent publicity seekers.

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marcengels
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Post by marcengels »

Thanks, mate - but I agreed with you on the timekeeping. You're reasons for giving further extra time I believe are misplaced, taking too much time and in particular, for the ball being out of play for a corner! :lol: Even you have to laugh at that one. :wink:

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safcftm
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Post by safcftm »

marcengels wrote:Thanks, mate - but I agreed with you on the timekeeping. You're reasons for giving further extra time I believe are misplaced, taking too much time and in particular, for the ball being out of play for a corner! :lol: Even you have to laugh at that one. :wink:
yeah, i'll give you that one, can't blame a lad for trying though :wink: :lol:

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safcftm
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Post by safcftm »

By the way, the refs are even worse further down the pyramid- somehow or other the ref didnt give a penalty and a red card for this in a Blyth Spartans game the other day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaDci33GGzE
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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TeeCee
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Post by TeeCee »

Thing is, Wenger has got everyone talking about how hard done by Arsenal were, therefore deflecting the blame from himself and the players - just what he always tries to do, hence there is always an excuse. :roll:

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I Hate Hleb
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Post by I Hate Hleb »

Although I blame our shit defending more than anyone else for Saturday's capitulation, given the over-all performances of the likes of Mason and Dowd recently, I thought we could sing this Man Utd song at games to let them know we're on to them....:wink:

You do what they want,
You do what they wa..aaa..ant,
So scared of Man United
You do what they want.


:lol: :lol: :wink:

n6gooner
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Post by n6gooner »

TeeCee wrote:Thing is, Wenger has got everyone talking about how hard done by Arsenal were, therefore deflecting the blame from himself and the players - just what he always tries to do, hence there is always an excuse. :roll:
agreed, arsene had always had a blind spot for the lacking mental toughness that's been evident since departures of vieira and then campbell (which started with his disappearance before the west ham game ended), however, whilst we should have "closed the game down" and diaby deserved to go:

a - so should nolan for his part in the melee; and
b - if not then, nolan should have gone for the incident with our keeper

you then have a different game with 10 v 10 (at 4-0 or 4-1)

honest gooners all know the short-comings of our team (ie. wenger's inability to make game-changing tactical decisions/substitutions during the match, etc) but this shouldn't be used as a smoke-screen to hide the sort of sub-standard reffing not seen since chelsea v barca all those years ago

barton left the ground for that challenge and whilst it was arguably a fair one many have been red-carded for similar. funny how all the journo's have been bigging up barton this weekend......the same ones who wanted him hung only a few months ago!! just looking for their next story when they knock down again in the near future

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