THE WENGER THREAD

[northbank123]

A lot of the ex players who are supporting Wenger like Henry etc were there in good times Maybe , and it would be hard to take , criticism by Fabregas or Van Persie would be more appropriate as they witnessed or more accurately lived the slide to mediocrity . Unlikely to happen I know , but if either of them were to say "I left because I knew under Wenger the club was going backwards" it would carry more weight. The older ones may feel the loyalty to Wenger is more important than telling it like it should be.

Agree - the likes of Henry and Pires can say what they like but they are lying to themselves if they're pretending they would have stuck around in their prime at Arsenal now. Knowing before every season had started that there is zero chance of us winning the league, zero chance of us winning the CL. They went a whole season unbeaten ffs, that sort of competitiveness and desire is completely at odds with the current ethos.

I see your point about Fabregas and van Persie, and it has merit, but imagine how dismissive AKBs would be of those two in particular criticising.

[Ikechukwu1]

Henry makes me laugh these days. Outstanding club legend yadda yadda...
It winds me up how he thinks he can dictate to fans how they should behave towards Le Cock Sportif. Thierry's egotism knows no bounds and the hypocrisy is sickening. Here's an example: as a player, Henry craved the CL. He'd already won 2 league titles, numerous FA Cups, signed a fat deal on £130k a week and said on the plane back from the Paris defeat he'd be staying a Gunner for good. That was in 2006, after the CL final.
Now here's the question: given Thierry's great faith in Le Tard, how many seasons did he stick around to fight for the Virtual Trophy? Answer: he stuck around just one extra year. He had a fat deal but he sulked and he bitched and believed in Wenger so much he hopped on the first plane to Barcelona. Got his CL medal too! He was the captain and revered: so why didn't he stick around when times get tough? Answer, he believed he deserved more. And I don't begrudge him that.
Now...I see Thierry doing that Sky ad where he keeps blabbing on about "believing in better".
So what confuses me here, is how a player who was disgusted to finish runner-up in the FIFA World Player/ballon d'Or, could be soooo supportive of a manager that's won 1 FA Cup in 10 years now, and hasn't finished inside the top 2 of the league in 10 years. And that's without mentioning consistent failures in Europe
It's interesting cos I'm reminded of a line in his biography where he says "I got tired of always having to respond" - that was said with reference to us constantly getting willy-wonka'd in Europe and "having to respond"

So Thierry, considering you owe those fans who revered you for so many years so much, how fucking dare you tell fans who have stuck with this club (and not pissed off to Barca) what they're entitled to?

Basically, Henry is saying: "it was defo never acceptable or good enough for me but you jizz-peasants better lap it up and thank your lucky stars"

And to make things worse loads of our fans will then slate Fabregas - who actually have us years of good service, didn't leave for more money (took a paycut), went to his hometown club and didn't wait until he was bored and 49 years old to come back and join us.

But they'll tickle Henry's balls, right?

[northbank123]

I don't want to end up resenting Henry in any way but ("jizz-peasants" aside) that post is a real example of the hypocrisy that I referred to with these ex-players.

Interestingly Vieira is about the only one I never hear piping up in staunch defence on Wenger. Which is strange because he's probably the one that profits most from him staying in the job.

[SteveO 35]

Henry makes me laugh these days. Outstanding club legend yadda yadda...
It winds me up how he thinks he can dictate to fans how they should behave towards Le Cock Sportif. Thierry's egotism knows no bounds and the hypocrisy is sickening. Here's an example: as a player, Henry craved the CL. He'd already won 2 league titles, numerous FA Cups, signed a fat deal on £130k a week and said on the plane back from the Paris defeat he'd be staying a Gunner for good. That was in 2006, after the CL final.
Now here's the question: given Thierry's great faith in Le Tard, how many seasons did he stick around to fight for the Virtual Trophy? Answer: he stuck around just one extra year. He had a fat deal but he sulked and he bitched and believed in Wenger so much he hopped on the first plane to Barcelona. Got his CL medal too! He was the captain and revered: so why didn't he stick around when times get tough? Answer, he believed he deserved more. And I don't begrudge him that.
Now...I see Thierry doing that Sky ad where he keeps blabbing on about "believing in better".
So what confuses me here, is how a player who was disgusted to finish runner-up in the FIFA World Player/ballon d'Or, could be soooo supportive of a manager that's won 1 FA Cup in 10 years now, and hasn't finished inside the top 2 of the league in 10 years. And that's without mentioning consistent failures in Europe
It's interesting cos I'm reminded of a line in his biography where he says "I got tired of always having to respond" - that was said with reference to us constantly getting willy-wonka'd in Europe and "having to respond"

So Thierry, considering you owe those fans who revered you for so many years so much, how fucking dare you tell fans who have stuck with this club (and not pissed off to Barca) what they're entitled to?

Basically, Henry is saying: "it was defo never acceptable or good enough for me but you jizz-peasants better lap it up and thank your lucky stars"

And to make things worse loads of our fans will then slate Fabregas - who actually have us years of good service, didn't leave for more money (took a paycut), went to his hometown club and didn't wait until he was bored and 49 years old to come back and join us.

But they'll tickle Henry's balls, right?

Exactly right. I heard Nasri saying the other day that Ferguson had tapped him up and urged him to "force a war with Arsenal" to leave but he couldn't do that due to his "respect for Arsene Wenger". Maybe not - but you didn't believe in him long enough to stick around hunting the 4th place trophy year after year either. Same thing with Van Persie - in 5 years or so when he hangs up the boots you'll hear him saying what a wonderful manager Wenger was and how he was 'like a father' blah blah - nobody doubts the strength of the relationship, but it does mean that every word you utter as a pundit is completely biased. That's why I prefer to listen to Gooners from the pre-Wenger era - they don't feel they owe him anything and hence are more likely to take a balanced view.

It will be painful watching Henry at times I'm sure but remember - its pretty hard to slate a fella you worked for, for 10 years and who looked after you, and I completely understand that. I'm sure his points will be more measured and coherent than shit for brains Merson though

[OneBardGooner]

I presume you'll be happy for Abou to stay on though mate?

Baked bean head is gone at the end of the season mon ami and I am going to create the mother of all t1tty threads to celebrate. Le Fraud has made this injury prone, sick note, no mark into a multi millionaire and finally getting shot of him will make my summer.

Nice One Rodders!

[QuartzGooner]

IKe

I agree with you about Henry's ego, it is huge.

But he left for Barcelona for a few reasons...is my guess anyway.

Yes, he knew the team was weakened by the stadium move, you are right to a point.
But it was still good enough to challenge for honours.

Yes, he knew that the professional respect between a group of winners had come to an end...Vieira, Parlour, Edu, Pires, Bergkamp, Campbell had all left.
It was a new era and his fellow Invincibles, Glberto and Ljungberg were increasingly fringe, and Toure was losing form.

So the club was increasingly revolving around Gallas, Van Persie and Fabregas.

But I think Henry left for two main reasons...both connected to his ego.

1 - He was suffering from a back injury, and it was not healing.
He knew his form was declining and his pace was naturally getting slower.
He simply would not be as effective a player any more, and if that was down to losing pace then playing in a slower league would make him look better.

2 - Tactics
We increasingly played with one up front, or built the play through Cesc.
Neither suited Henry.
He knew his goals would decline, and he would have to work harder than before.
More physical battles with centre backs, less power sprints that would make the showreel.
He would lose a bit of his edge..and he moved to where he could get it back.

[OneBardGooner]

IKe

I agree with you about Henry's ego, it is huge.

But he left for Barcelona for a few reasons...is my guess anyway.

Yes, he knew the team was weakened by the stadium move, you are right to a point.
But it was still good enough to challenge for honours.

Yes, he knew that the professional respect between a group of winners had come to an end...Vieira, Parlour, Edu, Pires, Bergkamp, Campbell had all left.
It was a new era and his fellow Invincibles, Glberto and Ljungberg were increasingly fringe, and Toure was losing form.

So the club was increasingly revolving around Gallas, Van Persie and Fabregas.

But I think Henry left for two main reasons...both connected to his ego.

1 - He was suffering from a back injury, and it was not healing.
He knew his form was declining and his pace was naturally getting slower.
He simply would not be as effective a player any more, and if that was down to losing pace then playing in a slower league would make him look better.

2 - Tactics
We increasingly played with one up front, or built the play through Cesc.
Neither suited Henry.
He knew his goals would decline, and he would have to work harder than before.
More physical battles with centre backs, less power sprints that would make the showreel.
He would lose a bit of his edge..and he moved to where he could get it back.

Also; He had just been 'found out' by his missus - for shagging someone else - - and she was divorcing him - the press would have had a field day here in the UK - NOt saying it was THE reason - But it certainly came into the (timing of) the equation.

[QuartzGooner]

Onebard

I deliberately left out his impending divorce.
I do not think we can second guess how it affected his move.
The press here did have a field day with it anyway.
Whilst he might have wanted to be overseas to be away from his soon to be ex-wife, he also had a young daughter who was at school here so he would see less of her by moving (and less of a number of friends in London too), so it cannot be said one way or the other.

[BFG4]

In terms of Henry's move to Barca, i don't think anyone could complain, as he had been at the club for 8 years, and seen we were going into decline, so decided to join one of the best teams in the world. The issue with Henry is him telling fans to accept mediocrity when he didn't, not only is that hypocritical, but I find it insulting to my intelligence that he feels that because of who he is, he can talks bollocks, and no fan will question it.

[clockender1]

I see its just been announced that Arteta is out for 3 months - 2 months after being injured. errmmmm why didn't they operate 2 months ago - its a bone spur, its not like de-grow or de-splint do they ?????

debuchy is also out 3 months too.

wonga described today the injuries this season as "unbelievable" - No Arsene, we do believe it, it happens ever year under the useless old tossers who's in charge of everything.....

[augie]

In terms of Henry's move to Barca, i don't think anyone could complain, as he had been at the club for 8 years, and seen we were going into decline, so decided to join one of the best teams in the world. The issue with Henry is him telling fans to accept mediocrity when he didn't, not only is that hypocritical, but I find it insulting to my intelligence that he feels that because of who he is, he can talks bollocks, and no fan will question it.

I respect his decision to leave and if he left because he seen the decline coming then I would actually applaud his decision, but what pisses me off is the fact that fans still slate PV4 and cesc for their attitude/performances in the year before they left, when henry's attitude was no different. I remember that in the month before paris 2006 all the talk was about the impending henry transfer to barca - at the time the talk in the media was all "will he or wont he leave" and it was as if the club would have no say in whether he stayed or left

[SteveO 35]

In terms of Henry's move to Barca, i don't think anyone could complain, as he had been at the club for 8 years, and seen we were going into decline, so decided to join one of the best teams in the world. The issue with Henry is him telling fans to accept mediocrity when he didn't, not only is that hypocritical, but I find it insulting to my intelligence that he feels that because of who he is, he can talks bollocks, and no fan will question it.

I respect his decision to leave and if he left because he seen the decline coming then I would actually applaud his decision, but what pisses me off is the fact that fans still slate PV4 and cesc for their attitude/performances in the year before they left, when henry's attitude was no different. I remember that in the month before paris 2006 all the talk was about the impending henry transfer to barca - at the time the talk in the media was all "will he or wont he leave" and it was as if the club would have no say in whether he stayed or left

Agreed, and it carried on right the way up to the final and if truth be known he loved the whole saga. I'll never forget when he bent down and kissed the pitch after getting the hattrick against Wigan on the final day at THOF - people were saying 'is that him saying goodbye' and he did absolutely nothing to calm those fears. We went into that final not having a clue whether he was staying or not

[OneBardGooner]

I see its just been announced that Arteta is out for 3 months - 2 months after being injured. errmmmm why didn't they operate 2 months ago - its a bone spur, its not like de-grow or de-splint do they ?????

debuchy is also out 3 months too.

wonga described today the injuries this season as "unbelievable" - No Arsene, we do believe it, it happens ever year under the useless old tossers who's in charge of everything.....

^^^THIS^^^ Well said mate!

Wenker you clueless delusional useless Twat.

[OneBardGooner]

Onebard

I deliberately left out his impending divorce.
I do not think we can second guess how it affected his move.
The press here did have a field day with it anyway.
Whilst he might have wanted to be overseas to be away from his soon to be ex-wife, he also had a young daughter who was at school here so he would see less of her by moving (and less of a number of friends in London too), so it cannot be said one way or the other.

I still think it played a part in the timing of his departure....also he had long yearned to wina CL Winners Medal - and the only 2 teams likely to help him achieve that were Barcawhoree or Realmadrid Divers - As much as I hold him dear as an Ex-Arsenal Player - If he satrts with the usual Bullshit and doesn't call Wenger on all the problems - Then I honestlt believe he will lose much respect from the Gooners who know what's what.

[DB10GOONER]

On Podolski: I don't agree with his departure. I think it's bullshit especially considering Arsenal now effectively have just 2 first team strikers and they're both mediocre and couldn't finish their dinner. On that point totally agree.
Now. What I don't agree with is this fallacy that Podolski is "class" and would have smashed it if played in his proper position. Podolski went to Bayern and was played in his proper position, up front, ahead of Deisler. He was shocking, got booted out pretty quick.

Absolute tosh, Baba. But hey, why let the FACTs influence what you post, huh? Podolski was NEVER a regular starter “in his proper position” at Bayern, so how you can possibly judge him to have been “shocking” is beyond me. The actual FACTs are he made only 33 starts in three seasons, as opposed to 38 appearances from the bench. Another FACT is he still managed to score 15 goals. At Arsenal he scored 31 from only 55 starts and 27 sub appearances (whilst, let’s not forget, being played out of position). ANY striker that can do that without a regular run to build fitness, sharpness and most importantly, confidence is “class” in my book and deserves a chance to do it with a regular run in the team and in his favoured position in a system that plays to his strengths. Also, half way through that first season at Bayern he suffered a serious ankle injury in training and missed 6 weeks.

Went back to Koln, scores a few goals...in a team that gets relegated.

And then scored 24 to help them come straight back up. But again, irrelevant. Teams very rarely get relegated because their striker scored 51 goals in 85 appearances, you’ll probably find there were other issues there, huh?

His international goal record is often brought up in mitigation but he's not scored a single competitive goal against a top 10 side ever. His stats are massively skewed by qualifiers v Luxembourg, San Marino etc.

Again purely subjective tosh. You could make that comment about most international players. By the very nature of interlull football the majority of top teams' games are against minnows or, at least, lesser sides. 48 goals from 120 odd matches is still top notch at that level. Nice that you also ignore the FACT he is still Germany’s third highest scoring player; level with Voller and Klinsmann and ahead of legends like Rummenegge, Ballack and Bierhoff.

Joachim Low was on record as saying over a year ago that Klose needed a natural successor. Klose is old and knackered. Yet when Germany went to the WC, how many knockout matches did Podolski start? Answer: zero. How many minutes did he play in total? Less than 30. This isn't no mug manager, it's WC winning FIFA Coach of the Year Joachim Low.

“Klose is old and knackered”. Stop. Klose even at 36 was a fantastic goal poacher, a complete and deadly striker. But again this is irrelevant to the argument. Germany had a huge squad brim full of serious talent. No one is saying Pod is the best striker in the world, but he was the best striker we had at The Arsenal over the last 2 seasons. So the FACT he wasn’t chosen ahead of the more proven, experienced and fancied Klose, doesn’t make him less a player or less an option for Arsenal. Pod getting limited time at the WC has to also be seen in relation to Low’s system (basically a flexible 4-2-3-1) where he also had Muller as an option to move forward from his AM role to play as a striker and also the option to use the “German Messi” Goetze as a “false 9”.

As for Low – he won the WC so now he is infallible and every single choice he makes is right? Well, hey - Arsene Wenger, the man you only post shite about has won more than Low, has won 2 Doubles and achieved an unbeaten PL season in the toughest league in the world, so everything he does must be right too, huh? No? Not a FACT?

In short Podolski definitely had a role to play at Arsenal but he basically wouldn't get anywhere near the top 6 sides in Europe which is where Arsenal should be aiming for. Benzema, Tevez, Lewandowski, Reus...that's the level of gettable striker we should have looked to. Was a mistake signing him in first place IMO

Again, totally subjective and irrelevant. Who are the “top 6 sides in Europe”? What’s your criteria? But aside from that, even if Pod wouldn’t get into this hypothetical “top 6 sides in Europe”, what relevance does that have to Arsenal? We are nowhere near the top 10 sides in Europe (by ANY criteria). The fact is Podolski wasn’t a bad signing. The way he was misused and wasted was bad management.