The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

[A11M11]

Those who haven't had a good hand dealt in life or didn't have the get up and go to better themselves, can only take it out on people who are better off than they are.

Standard fare from a person that only reads or hears or takes in what he wishes to.
Some time ago I informed him that I am retired from having ran my own business , ( must have forgotten or skipped over that) . Throughout that period I encountered copious amounts of beaurocracy ,some U.K some E.U. I saw customers that just couldn't handle it. Some, like many in East Anglia were surviving on £ 15000 per annum, they had their own little shops , businesses not to make their fortune but to pay their rent and eat. Personally I don't give a toss what Nutflush or anyone else earns or possibly just takes home,what I do care about though are the people that I have dealt with that have been fighting to keep their heads above the proverbial waterline. Not unusually they are open 7 days a week from 9.00am until 6.00 pm and then go home to sort their V.A T . their income tax find the money for the council tax. They are the people that deserve political change , they are the ones that need to have the red tape reduced , and they are the ones that live in fear of Tesco, Morrisons et al choosing to pitch up near their village and start cherry picking their top lines . ( You can buy the oil for your car from the supermarket (£ 20 but try getting the filter £ 3.50 or the sump plug. 50p)
My point is that many people are just on the breadline but they are trying . Albeit you can ask were they pushed or did they jump , but they don't deserve to be looked down on and from my coversations with them to a man/woman they voted to leave.

Bob Dylan :- When you ain't got nothing youv'e got nothing to lose.

[Allgunsblazin]

This really is an appalling thread.

I won't lock it as it is an issue for our British Gooners and obviously many of you feel very passionately about it one way or the other. But the intolerance of others' views, the sniping, the insults and the general shitiness need to stop. Try and be respectful of each other.

It's reflective of how divided our country is DB10, you may shake your head in disbelief but these sorts of discussions are happening on and offline.

Remember not long ago Ireland was a hugely divided country too.

PS It would take a brave man to lock this thread, just as well there is a stretch of water between us

Think a couple of chaps called Oliver and William of Orange had a lot to do with the division along with a load of jocks lol....

[gazzatt2]

i appreciate that few will agree but I do agree with this. He makes more sense than anyone in the government right now

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

Writing in the New European, Blair said: “The issue is not whether we ignore the will of the people, but whether, as information becomes available, and facts take the place of claims, the ‘will’ of the people shifts. Maybe it won’t, in which case people like me will have to accept it.

“But surely we are entitled to try to persuade, to make the argument, and not to be whipped into line to support a decision we genuinely believe is a catastrophe for the country we love.”


So Tony Blair thinks you should be able to change peoples view after the vote
if the remain campaign hadn't been project fear and focused on some positives of the EU (is there any ?) the result might have been efferent (I doubt it)
another remainer still sulking he lost and won't accept the democratic result

[olgitgooner]

NutFlush....in your last few posts you have stated that...

1. I have trouble reading or comprehending or both.

2. AllGuns spouts rubbish and doesn't even know what GDP means.

Think about this for a moment. You have shown a serious flaw in your judgemental abilities.

Why would anybody trust in your judgement when it comes to more important matters?

You also said that is "quite sad how the poor and uneducated have been brainwashed "

Do you see a pattern emerging here? Probably not.

Anyhow, if you would like to pm me your address I'll send you a gift ......

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_ ... nce_People

Quote in italics was not attributed to me. You need to read the thread a bit harder. Dare I mention age .

In relation to the other comments, when an Accountant (alleged) cannot explain correctly exactly what happened with the Enron scandal and tries to link it with the Financial crisis then my comments are warranted tbh.

All we hear today is the Nissan deal and the thousands of jobs saved, not the sweetners the Government have assured to Nissan that ultimately will cost taxpayers money.

With regards to "how to win friends and influence people", is that the most cliche'd book ever written. The reason I have been so vociferous on this thread is because the brexiteers have just buried their heads in the sand. Every debate has half a story from you lot, as has been proven with both Nissan and GDP figures issued today.

Apologies NutFlush. Somebody else said that "out" voters are poor and uneducated. You probably disagree whole heartedly with this.

However, you did personally insult myself and AllGuns. How about an apology for that?

Apology accepted, you are a gooner after all:). Apology reciprocated if it makes you happy. Gotta keep the gooner family happy ehhh.



With regards to the poor and uneducated comments, if you have read what I have said throughout this thread I said that referendum should never have taken place because we as a nation are not qualified to make this judgement. There are people that went out and educated themselves, but a lot of brexiteers just used their biased views of Foreigners and Europe to make their decisions. Where there enough of these people to swing the vote in favour of leave, hell yes.

A half hearted apology is no apology.

Democracy is democracy. When you say that "we, as a nation, are not qualified to make this judgement" you are saying that we should leave decisions to those who know better than Joe Public. This idea is great for fascists and communists. And is very rewarding for the unelected people who control the EU. The rest of us prefer to actually have a say in how our country is governed. We have a stab at this every four years or so. Our latest opportunity to vote was far more important than the usual. You disagree with the outcome. Tough.

There is absolutely no way that you can prove that the outcome will be a bad thing for the UK.

[nut flush gooner]

Those who haven't had a good hand dealt in life or didn't have the get up and go to better themselves, can only take it out on people who are better off than they are.

Standard fare from a person that only reads or hears or takes in what he wishes to.
Some time ago I informed him that I am retired from having ran my own business , ( must have forgotten or skipped over that) . Throughout that period I encountered copious amounts of beaurocracy ,some U.K some E.U. I saw customers that just couldn't handle it. Some, like many in East Anglia were surviving on £ 15000 per annum, they had their own little shops , businesses not to make their fortune but to pay their rent and eat. Personally I don't give a toss what Nutflush or anyone else earns or possibly just takes home,what I do care about though are the people that I have dealt with that have been fighting to keep their heads above the proverbial waterline. Not unusually they are open 7 days a week from 9.00am until 6.00 pm and then go home to sort their V.A T . their income tax find the money for the council tax. They are the people that deserve political change , they are the ones that need to have the red tape reduced , and they are the ones that live in fear of Tesco, Morrisons et al choosing to pitch up near their village and start cherry picking their top lines . ( You can buy the oil for your car from the supermarket (£ 20 but try getting the filter £ 3.50 or the sump plug. 50p)
My point is that many people are just on the breadline but they are trying . Albeit you can ask were they pushed or did they jump , but they don't deserve to be looked down on and from my coversations with them to a man/woman they voted to leave.

Bob Dylan :- When you ain't got nothing youv'e got nothing to lose.

If you run your own business and you live on the breadline, I question why you are in business especially if you would be better off in employment. What about training yourself to get new skills.

You can get loans similar to those students have to pay for vocational training/education that you don't have to pay back until you have a stable wage. If you sit there and wallow in self pity and can't think outside the box then i'm sorry don't blame the government. Successful business people have the ability to re-invent themselves when the need arises.

The internet has brought about so many business opportunities, ways of making extra money. All you have to do is open your eyes and grasp the opportunities. I see young people every day starting blogs, with absolutely no business experience and monetising their content to the tune of thousands every month. It cost's next to nothing to do this.

That is the key these days, don't put all your eggs in one basket, it's quite simple really. Think with a broad mind not narrow, then you will never have a sob story to tell or feel you have to kick people who are better off than you in the teeth, just because they have done better than you. Not everyone starts off life with a silver spoon in their mouths you know. Voting Brexit isn't to the detriment of the rich, it's all of us. The rich don't give a shit what you do.

[nut flush gooner]

NutFlush....in your last few posts you have stated that...

1. I have trouble reading or comprehending or both.

2. AllGuns spouts rubbish and doesn't even know what GDP means.

Think about this for a moment. You have shown a serious flaw in your judgemental abilities.

Why would anybody trust in your judgement when it comes to more important matters?

You also said that is "quite sad how the poor and uneducated have been brainwashed "

Do you see a pattern emerging here? Probably not.

Anyhow, if you would like to pm me your address I'll send you a gift ......

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_ ... nce_People

Quote in italics was not attributed to me. You need to read the thread a bit harder. Dare I mention age .

In relation to the other comments, when an Accountant (alleged) cannot explain correctly exactly what happened with the Enron scandal and tries to link it with the Financial crisis then my comments are warranted tbh.

All we hear today is the Nissan deal and the thousands of jobs saved, not the sweetners the Government have assured to Nissan that ultimately will cost taxpayers money.

With regards to "how to win friends and influence people", is that the most cliche'd book ever written. The reason I have been so vociferous on this thread is because the brexiteers have just buried their heads in the sand. Every debate has half a story from you lot, as has been proven with both Nissan and GDP figures issued today.

Apologies NutFlush. Somebody else said that "out" voters are poor and uneducated. You probably disagree whole heartedly with this.

However, you did personally insult myself and AllGuns. How about an apology for that?

Apology accepted, you are a gooner after all:). Apology reciprocated if it makes you happy. Gotta keep the gooner family happy ehhh.



With regards to the poor and uneducated comments, if you have read what I have said throughout this thread I said that referendum should never have taken place because we as a nation are not qualified to make this judgement. There are people that went out and educated themselves, but a lot of brexiteers just used their biased views of Foreigners and Europe to make their decisions. Where there enough of these people to swing the vote in favour of leave, hell yes.

A half hearted apology is no apology.

Democracy is democracy. When you say that "we, as a nation, are not qualified to make this judgement" you are saying that we should leave decisions to those who know better than Joe Public. This idea is great for fascists and communists. And is very rewarding for the unelected people who control the EU. The rest of us prefer to actually have a say in how our country is governed. We have a stab at this every four years or so. Our latest opportunity to vote was far more important than the usual. You disagree with the outcome. Tough.

There is absolutely no way that you can prove that the outcome will be a bad thing for the UK.

Half hearted? It's whatever way you want to take it old boy, it was genuine but not really anything I can say more than that.

With regards to Democracy, we elect MPs/the government to make important decisions for us. The EU is not a utopia, nor is having unelected bureaucrats deciding our laws again not ideal. But if the net effect of remaining in the EU, is better for our economy then we shouldn't do anything to jeopardise that. We have already seen posters who have admitted the referendum was a bloody nose exercise, fuck the consequences. By the way, we have an unelected PM for the second time in a decade making these decisions - who categorically was a remainer, just saying.

Your references to Communism and Facism in the same sentence are bizarre. Communism in it's purest form involves the equal distribution of wealth throughout society, and a government that controls all production in an economy. The whole idea of Democracy is we appoint people to make these difficult decisions for us, not the other way round.

We have already seen the negative impacts of the vote let in our supermarkets, Marmite gate was just the start. Morrisons yesterday said they where putting up the price by 12.5% and Tea prices are going up because their input costs have increased by 60%.

British Airways have said flight prices will go up, Apple are putting up the prices of its Macbook. This is only the start.

Does having less money in your pocket after the weekly shop, booking a holiday or buying electrical goods not constitute proof we are worse off. It's only going to get worse unless our currency seriously recovers. Can you see that?

[flash gunner]

Nutty

You say about young people starting blogs and "with absolutely no business experience and monetising their content to the tune of thousands every month".......... how many actually make money out of blogs, compared to the hundreds of thousands out there? What about the young people who can not afford mid range mobiles or laptops capable of producing this? Internet access? What about the less intelligent young people/old people who are incapable of doing this?

I had a good upbringing was guided well as a child and teen and eventually found myself in a decent career that has seen me working for nearly 30 years (and im not an accountant or financial planner ) but there are so many out there that do not have this. You could just pull up the ladder and say f**k those lot because they aren't worth worrying about or you could try to maker things better for them. The fluctuating pound means nothing to them even if Lidl prices go up by 10% because it is worth 5p or 10p or £1 on their shopping.

You also say about not putting your eggs in one basket what about the people that have no basket? Look at the link and i know the USA is a whole different ball game but try telling these people to make money Blogging http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... st-9148518

The uncontrolled immigration has forced wages down for the lowest paid in our society no doubt about that and this has caused some to be disgruntled and they don't care about the cost of BA flights or Mac Book pro's. You're living in a different world to them but think you know.

This isn't a knock to you but in your corporate business world i think you and many like you including many of my friends and family miss whats happening at the very lowest levels.

There are many things that rile me about the EU some above, unelected beaurocrats making rules over our elected beuacrats heads etc and some i haven't gone into ( yet )

This isnt a personal attack on you BTW before DB10 bans me

[olgitgooner]

Quote in italics was not attributed to me. You need to read the thread a bit harder. Dare I mention age .

In relation to the other comments, when an Accountant (alleged) cannot explain correctly exactly what happened with the Enron scandal and tries to link it with the Financial crisis then my comments are warranted tbh.

All we hear today is the Nissan deal and the thousands of jobs saved, not the sweetners the Government have assured to Nissan that ultimately will cost taxpayers money.

With regards to "how to win friends and influence people", is that the most cliche'd book ever written. The reason I have been so vociferous on this thread is because the brexiteers have just buried their heads in the sand. Every debate has half a story from you lot, as has been proven with both Nissan and GDP figures issued today.

Apologies NutFlush. Somebody else said that "out" voters are poor and uneducated. You probably disagree whole heartedly with this.

However, you did personally insult myself and AllGuns. How about an apology for that?

Apology accepted, you are a gooner after all:). Apology reciprocated if it makes you happy. Gotta keep the gooner family happy ehhh.



With regards to the poor and uneducated comments, if you have read what I have said throughout this thread I said that referendum should never have taken place because we as a nation are not qualified to make this judgement. There are people that went out and educated themselves, but a lot of brexiteers just used their biased views of Foreigners and Europe to make their decisions. Where there enough of these people to swing the vote in favour of leave, hell yes.

A half hearted apology is no apology.

Democracy is democracy. When you say that "we, as a nation, are not qualified to make this judgement" you are saying that we should leave decisions to those who know better than Joe Public. This idea is great for fascists and communists. And is very rewarding for the unelected people who control the EU. The rest of us prefer to actually have a say in how our country is governed. We have a stab at this every four years or so. Our latest opportunity to vote was far more important than the usual. You disagree with the outcome. Tough.

There is absolutely no way that you can prove that the outcome will be a bad thing for the UK.

Half hearted? It's whatever way you want to take it old boy, it was genuine but not really anything I can say more than that.

With regards to Democracy, we elect MPs/the government to make important decisions for us. The EU is not a utopia, nor is having unelected bureaucrats deciding our laws again not ideal. But if the net effect of remaining in the EU, is better for our economy then we shouldn't do anything to jeopardise that. We have already seen posters who have admitted the referendum was a bloody nose exercise, fuck the consequences. By the way, we have an unelected PM for the second time in a decade making these decisions - who categorically was a remainer, just saying.

Your references to Communism and Facism in the same sentence are bizarre. Communism in it's purest form involves the equal distribution of wealth throughout society, and a government that controls all production in an economy. The whole idea of Democracy is we appoint people to make these difficult decisions for us, not the other way round.

We have already seen the negative impacts of the vote let in our supermarkets, Marmite gate was just the start. Morrisons yesterday said they where putting up the price by 12.5% and Tea prices are going up because their input costs have increased by 60%.

British Airways have said flight prices will go up, Apple are putting up the prices of its Macbook. This is only the start.

Does having less money in your pocket after the weekly shop, booking a holiday or buying electrical goods not constitute proof we are worse off. It's only going to get worse unless our currency seriously recovers. Can you see that?

This is getting a bit tiresome.

We are never going to see eye to eye on this subject. And there are far too many points to sensibly debate on these pages. I think the EU is a sinking ship and is corrupt. I think the EU is holding back the economy of the U.K. and other European nations. I will be delighted when we are finally a free nation again. I fully expect other countries will follow our lead. I hope the EU will soon become history. Same as the USSR.

I am prepared to accept any short term financial hit in exchange for long term gain. Even if that means not buying Marmite and drinking less tea . I have no idea why tea costs have increased by 60%. It can't all be attributed to the value of the pound.

The referendum was a wonderful thing. Spoiled only by the ridiculous claims and misinformation from both camps. If we, as a nation, are not qualified to decide this democratic issue, then we are not qualified to vote in general elections either.

I don't expect you to agree with any of the above. A response is not required

[A11M11]

If you run your own business and you live on the breadline, I question why you are in business especially if you would be better off in employment. What about training yourself to get new skills.



I think you need to step outside your shell and look around the rest of the country and see how the other people survive.

They could always close their little businesses and get a 18 hour a week job in Tesco and claim income or working tax credit or there are adverts for care home assistants on minimum wages on unsocial hours . Or like many they could just shut their jobs and hold their hands out. They choose to work and fend for themselves.

[GranadaJoe]

Apologies NutFlush. Somebody else said that "out" voters are poor and uneducated. You probably disagree whole heartedly with this.

However, you did personally insult myself and AllGuns. How about an apology for that?

Apology accepted, you are a gooner after all:). Apology reciprocated if it makes you happy. Gotta keep the gooner family happy ehhh.



With regards to the poor and uneducated comments, if you have read what I have said throughout this thread I said that referendum should never have taken place because we as a nation are not qualified to make this judgement. There are people that went out and educated themselves, but a lot of brexiteers just used their biased views of Foreigners and Europe to make their decisions. Where there enough of these people to swing the vote in favour of leave, hell yes.

A half hearted apology is no apology.

Democracy is democracy. When you say that "we, as a nation, are not qualified to make this judgement" you are saying that we should leave decisions to those who know better than Joe Public. This idea is great for fascists and communists. And is very rewarding for the unelected people who control the EU. The rest of us prefer to actually have a say in how our country is governed. We have a stab at this every four years or so. Our latest opportunity to vote was far more important than the usual. You disagree with the outcome. Tough.

There is absolutely no way that you can prove that the outcome will be a bad thing for the UK.

Half hearted? It's whatever way you want to take it old boy, it was genuine but not really anything I can say more than that.

With regards to Democracy, we elect MPs/the government to make important decisions for us. The EU is not a utopia, nor is having unelected bureaucrats deciding our laws again not ideal. But if the net effect of remaining in the EU, is better for our economy then we shouldn't do anything to jeopardise that. We have already seen posters who have admitted the referendum was a bloody nose exercise, fuck the consequences. By the way, we have an unelected PM for the second time in a decade making these decisions - who categorically was a remainer, just saying.

Your references to Communism and Facism in the same sentence are bizarre. Communism in it's purest form involves the equal distribution of wealth throughout society, and a government that controls all production in an economy. The whole idea of Democracy is we appoint people to make these difficult decisions for us, not the other way round.

We have already seen the negative impacts of the vote let in our supermarkets, Marmite gate was just the start. Morrisons yesterday said they where putting up the price by 12.5% and Tea prices are going up because their input costs have increased by 60%.

British Airways have said flight prices will go up, Apple are putting up the prices of its Macbook. This is only the start.

Does having less money in your pocket after the weekly shop, booking a holiday or buying electrical goods not constitute proof we are worse off. It's only going to get worse unless our currency seriously recovers. Can you see that?

This is getting a bit tiresome.

We are never going to see eye to eye on this subject. And there are far too many points to sensibly debate on these pages. I think the EU is a sinking ship and is corrupt. I think the EU is holding back the economy of the U.K. and other European nations. I will be delighted when we are finally a free nation again. I fully expect other countries will follow our lead. I hope the EU will soon become history. Same as the USSR.

I am prepared to accept any short term financial hit in exchange for long term gain. Even if that means not buying Marmite and drinking less tea . I have no idea why tea costs have increased by 60%. It can't all be attributed to the value of the pound.

The referendum was a wonderful thing. Spoiled only by the ridiculous claims and misinformation from both camps. If we, as a nation, are not qualified to decide this democratic issue, then we are not qualified to vote in general elections either.

I don't expect you to agree with any of the above. A response is not required

Please don't worry about the Marmite crisis.
Nutflush foresaw this happening before any of us, and he's put cupboard-loads of the stuff in his pension fund. I'm sure he'll let you have a couple of jars at a reasonable mark-up.

[olgitgooner]

No worries. I have some Bovril in the cupboard.

[StuartL]

No worries. I have some Bovril in the cupboard.

Is it left over from rationing ?

[olgitgooner]

No. From Christmas

[GoonerMuzz]

Really interesting all these people in the media complaining about the Nissan deal and incredibly worrying that so many people are asking 'what could it cost the UK economy?'.

Surely the more important question would be 'what would it have meant for the economy, not to mention the 7000 workers and other people who rely on the plant if the deal hadn't been done'

It's getting seriously ridiculous how anything being attempted to help the economy is being dragged over the coals just because of sour grapes, to be honest it is downright embarrassing that so many prominent people can't see beyond the end of their noses or swallow their pride and would rather make things harder than either get out the way or help let us move forward.

[Gunner Rob]

Really interesting all these people in the media complaining about the Nissan deal and incredibly worrying that so many people are asking 'what could it cost the UK economy?'.

Surely the more important question would be 'what would it have meant for the economy, not to mention the 7000 workers and other people who rely on the plant if the deal hadn't been done'

It's getting seriously ridiculous how anything being attempted to help the economy is being dragged over the coals just because of sour grapes, to be honest it is downright embarrassing that so many prominent people can't see beyond the end of their noses or swallow their pride and would rather make things harder than either get out the way or help let us move forward.

of course it is good news that a deal was done to safeguard these jobs.
but you are missing the point - if we were to remain in the EU a deal would not need to be done

and are we going to deals with each and every one of our manufacturing firms? financially this will cost millions. Brexit is just pure stupidity.