As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Can I also say that I think that the criticism of wilshere and especially chambers is somewhat harsh - yes jack has had a couple of injury blighted seasons but he is nowhere near rosicky and diaby in those stakes and personally I would prefer to stick with him for a while yet. People seem to forget that he is playing in a team devoid of any real tacklers so that puts him under extra pressure to be the combatitive one and his body is not up to that workload. Play him in a team alongside a PV4 type of player and then he would shine imo
Chambers though is being badly hung out and criticism is very harsh - he came into a struggling injury team, and he was a player with fcuk all experience but yet was expected to be ready straight away. Yes he did very well at the start but time and time again he was left exposed by his more experienced team-mates, and the lack of support at swansea was particularly disgraceful I believe that the potential to be a great defender for us is still there, but if we turn on him at this stage we risk ruining him and draining him of any confidence to play at the top level
augie wrote:Can I also say that I think that the criticism of wilshere and especially chambers is somewhat harsh - yes jack has had a couple of injury blighted seasons but he is nowhere near rosicky and diaby in those stakes and personally I would prefer to stick with him for a while yet. People seem to forget that he is playing in a team devoid of any real tacklers so that puts him under extra pressure to be the combatitive one and his body is not up to that workload. Play him in a team alongside a PV4 type of player and then he would shine imo
Chambers though is being badly hung out and criticism is very harsh - he came into a struggling injury team, and he was a player with fcuk all experience but yet was expected to be ready straight away. Yes he did very well at the start but time and time again he was left exposed by his more experienced team-mates, and the lack of support at swansea was particularly disgraceful I believe that the potential to be a great defender for us is still there, but if we turn on him at this stage we risk ruining him and draining him of any confidence to play at the top level
Mostly agree with this. Only thing I'd add is that I'm getting more and more convinced that Jack might never hit the next level. I hope he does, and I hope it's with us, but I just have my doubts. But I'm also very prepared to afford him the time to find out because, at his best, when fully fit etc, there is a very good footballer in there somewhere.
Anyone writing off Chambers at this stage is just being stupid.
augie wrote:Can I also say that I think that the criticism of wilshere and especially chambers is somewhat harsh - yes jack has had a couple of injury blighted seasons but he is nowhere near rosicky and diaby in those stakes and personally I would prefer to stick with him for a while yet. People seem to forget that he is playing in a team devoid of any real tacklers so that puts him under extra pressure to be the combatitive one and his body is not up to that workload. Play him in a team alongside a PV4 type of player and then he would shine imo
Chambers though is being badly hung out and criticism is very harsh - he came into a struggling injury team, and he was a player with fcuk all experience but yet was expected to be ready straight away. Yes he did very well at the start but time and time again he was left exposed by his more experienced team-mates, and the lack of support at swansea was particularly disgraceful I believe that the potential to be a great defender for us is still there, but if we turn on him at this stage we risk ruining him and draining him of any confidence to play at the top level
Mostly agree with this. Only thing I'd add is that I'm getting more and more convinced that Jack might never hit the next level. I hope he does, and I hope it's with us, but I just have my doubts. But I'm also very prepared to afford him the time to find out because, at his best, when fully fit etc, there is a very good footballer in there somewhere.
Anyone writing off Chambers at this stage is just being stupid.
I am on the fence about Jack, sometimes i see brief flashes of inspiration from other times i wonder how he ever managed to don the shirt. I'm just not sure how much longer he should be allowed to persevere, i actually feel this way about Gibbs too, some players just seem to fragile immaterial of their skill or not to continue playing in the PL, i mean take Alexis he has been kicked all over the park so far this season and has managed to avoid long term injury (so far).
The other one who seriously worries me is Aaron, he had a great season last season however he still seems to want to persist with the 'look at me' theatrics on the pitch instead of playing simple football, i also worry about his decision making at times too and his defensive thinking can be non-existent, this is incredibly sinful playing in the middle of the park especially if your 'wingers' are in front of you and can't get back to support the full backs when counter attacked imo he should drop off to allow the CDM to push left or right as required but too often he is left up the park in no mans land and seems in no hurry to get back.
A manger being paid £8.5M who has worked 30 years in football should be able to address these things, i'm not sure he can
LaughingGooner wrote:Jesus wept, this idea that the players instigated a change in tactics is hilarious.
Just another reason to ridicule Wenger I guess.
I guess the story came from the daily mail.
Let's all believe such a load of bollicks if it suits our warped agenda, no??!!???!
Next you'll be accusing Wenger of not wishing well podolski with a good luck note, oh but that's already been alleged on this forum
Keep up with this shite boys....
How about you come on here and at least try and make a reasoned intelligent defence of your God-Hero, rather than just come on and hurl childish insults at other posters? I warned Baba-Itchy yesterday over this type of WUM behaviour (and that's what it is tbh) and I'm warning you now. You only post insults, you only post to get a negative reaction from people. That's WUMing. Either tone down the personal abuse and attempt debate or you'll get banned.
I've attempted to argue the case for Wenger, but just got ridiculed and mocked.
Clearly personally abusing Wenger is condoned (if not encouraged by some here) but once I start defending myself by using a degree of sarcasm, then I threatened with being banned.
Some regular posters here have openly claimed they are 100% against Wenger and want him out regardless of what he achieves this season. Now tell me how I can have a reasoned debate with such people.
I'm only to aware of Wengers shortcomings - but I'm forced to defend him outright, due to the complete imbalance of prejudiced views on this site. Sometimes you just can't win.
Robin_L wrote:Your generalisation knows no bounds, it seems.
If you really think the win at Man City can be attributed to some coup d'etat of senior players going over Wenger's head, adjusting the style of play re: Coquelin, the pivot player and the average position of the full backs, rather than it being something discussed over the previous week(s) at Colney by Wenger, Bouldy, the staff and players alike......then I really have no words for you.
Wenger gets it wrong and gets rightly nailed for it, when he gets it right it's buried like a bad news day in the press, by the most blinkered, sense-of-entitlement supporters in the Prem no doubt. Luckily the support at away days is better than the tripe served up on here, thank God.
Maybe you should pay more attention to the words of le cock who admitted in the Daily Mirror that the players came to him requesting a change in the system/tactics
So you'd give the credit for this to change to Wenger then?
The reason I ask is that just before Christmas when debating player power you said that players should always do what the manager says and any dissent should be punished. You also claimed that what happens on the pitch is entirely down to the manager and I believe referred it back to the local boys team that you're involved in!
So, having said that, will you credit Wenger for the excellent win at Man City?
I stand over my prior statement that the players have NO authority to over-rule the managers tactics when the game starts but that isn't what we are talking about here is it ? Our senior players, (fed up with being butt fcuked in every big away game last season) went to the manager during the week and requested a change in system for the citeeh game - I understand why some would like to give credit to wenker for agreeing to their demands/request but that to me is a lazy judgement born from a lack of football intelligence and/or an inability to look beyond face value. In what galaxy should a team need to tell a manager how to set up a team ? That is a manager's job and it is the very least that we should expect from a guy being paid £8.5m per season. That the players don't trust him to get it right is a shocking indictment of how he is viewed in the dressing room. The fact that we needed player intervention to get our best result for a long time, should worry every Arsenal player, fan and employee of the club and even more so when you realise that he will be here for another two seasons. I was delighted that the players went to him over this matter but if they didn't go to him, we would have got another beating to a big team so giving the credit to le cock is ridiculous imo
I Hate Hleb wrote:We can debate if he is over-rated or not and whether he would make the strongest starting 11, but Jack Wilshere 'a dud and pointless addition to the first team'? Really?
If he weren't English, we wouldn't even be having this debate, tbh.
You might not but as someone who has watched Wilshere since the youth team, has faith in his ability and is also a bit more understanding as to why he hasn't been able to show that talent more regularly, I certainly would still be on here having the debate with people that claimed he was 'a dud and pointless addition'.
LaughingGooner wrote:Jesus wept, this idea that the players instigated a change in tactics is hilarious.
Just another reason to ridicule Wenger I guess.
I guess the story came from the daily mail.
Let's all believe such a load of bollicks if it suits our warped agenda, no??!!???!
Next you'll be accusing Wenger of not wishing well podolski with a good luck note, oh but that's already been alleged on this forum
Keep up with this shite boys....
How about you come on here and at least try and make a reasoned intelligent defence of your God-Hero, rather than just come on and hurl childish insults at other posters? I warned Baba-Itchy yesterday over this type of WUM behaviour (and that's what it is tbh) and I'm warning you now. You only post insults, you only post to get a negative reaction from people. That's WUMing. Either tone down the personal abuse and attempt debate or you'll get banned.
I've attempted to argue the case for Wenger, but just got ridiculed and mocked.
Clearly personally abusing Wenger is condoned (if not encouraged by some here) but once I start defending myself by using a degree of sarcasm, then I threatened with being banned.
Some regular posters here have openly claimed they are 100% against Wenger and want him out regardless of what he achieves this season. Now tell me how I can have a reasoned debate with such people.
I'm only to aware of Wengers shortcomings - but I'm forced to defend him outright, due to the complete imbalance of prejudiced views on this site. Sometimes you just can't win.
They probably want you to try and have a reasoned debate with that bloke on here that said he wanted Wenger dead, or beaten up. That's the sort of quality supporter you're coming up against round here, good luck
Oh come on Robin, that was in the middle of a bad match and the poster was attacked for what he said
part of the problem maybe that AW isnt a bad manager, was probably lucky at first but he does have deficiencies that other managers and teams consistantly see, there are certainly questions over his recent transfer windows, especially last January when we were challenging for the title at the time
Additionally there are a number of questions over his lack of tactics, including substitutions, poor medical backroom care, slow returns from and recurring injuries. He certainly seems stubbon, can be a good quality at times, but not always by any means.
It really is frustrating though to see the endless chase for 4th, and recurring lack of competitivity against the best sides. Especially when the reasons claimed are pretty spurious
LaughingGooner wrote:Jesus wept, this idea that the players instigated a change in tactics is hilarious.
Just another reason to ridicule Wenger I guess.
I guess the story came from the daily mail.
Let's all believe such a load of bollicks if it suits our warped agenda, no??!!???!
Next you'll be accusing Wenger of not wishing well podolski with a good luck note, oh but that's already been alleged on this forum
Keep up with this shite boys....
How about you come on here and at least try and make a reasoned intelligent defence of your God-Hero, rather than just come on and hurl childish insults at other posters? I warned Baba-Itchy yesterday over this type of WUM behaviour (and that's what it is tbh) and I'm warning you now. You only post insults, you only post to get a negative reaction from people. That's WUMing. Either tone down the personal abuse and attempt debate or you'll get banned.
I've attempted to argue the case for Wenger, but just got ridiculed and mocked.
Clearly personally abusing Wenger is condoned (if not encouraged by some here) but once I start defending myself by using a degree of sarcasm, then I threatened with being banned.
Some regular posters here have openly claimed they are 100% against Wenger and want him out regardless of what he achieves this season. Now tell me how I can have a reasoned debate with such people.
I'm only to aware of Wengers shortcomings - but I'm forced to defend him outright, due to the complete imbalance of prejudiced views on this site. Sometimes you just can't win.
They probably want you to try and have a reasoned debate with that bloke on here that said he wanted Wenger dead, or beaten up. That's the sort of quality supporter you're coming up against round here, good luck
Yeah. That's right. That's what we want. Well done, Robin.
BTW, can you define what a "quality supporter" is please?
Robin_L wrote:They probably want you to try and have a reasoned debate with that bloke on here that said he wanted Wenger dead, or beaten up. That's the sort of quality supporter you're coming up against round here, good luck
You post on a site known for its fair share of WOB and then proceed to moan about said WOB in every single fucking post.
If this place annoys you so much then I'm sure a clever chap (such as yourself) can work out what to do about it?
LaughingGooner wrote:Jesus wept, this idea that the players instigated a change in tactics is hilarious.
Just another reason to ridicule Wenger I guess.
I guess the story came from the daily mail.
Let's all believe such a load of bollicks if it suits our warped agenda, no??!!???!
Next you'll be accusing Wenger of not wishing well podolski with a good luck note, oh but that's already been alleged on this forum
Keep up with this shite boys....
How about you come on here and at least try and make a reasoned intelligent defence of your God-Hero, rather than just come on and hurl childish insults at other posters? I warned Baba-Itchy yesterday over this type of WUM behaviour (and that's what it is tbh) and I'm warning you now. You only post insults, you only post to get a negative reaction from people. That's WUMing. Either tone down the personal abuse and attempt debate or you'll get banned.
I've attempted to argue the case for Wenger, but just got ridiculed and mocked.
Clearly personally abusing Wenger is condoned (if not encouraged by some here) but once I start defending myself by using a degree of sarcasm, then I threatened with being banned.
Some regular posters here have openly claimed they are 100% against Wenger and want him out regardless of what he achieves this season. Now tell me how I can have a reasoned debate with such people.
I'm only to aware of Wengers shortcomings - but I'm forced to defend him outright, due to the complete imbalance of prejudiced views on this site. Sometimes you just can't win.
They probably want you to try and have a reasoned debate with that bloke on here that said he wanted Wenger dead, or beaten up. That's the sort of quality supporter you're coming up against round here, good luck
Yeah. That's right. That's what we want. Well done, Robin.
BTW, can you define what a "quality supporter" is please?
I think its someone who can get the word "c u n t" into every intelligent post they put up on here
You can never reason with AKB. They get upset with most or all of the criticism you made of Wenger and even went as far as calling you Wenger hater. They made it sound as if you hate Wenger since the day he became Arsenal manager.
I believe that the potential to be a great defender for us is still there, but if we turn on him at this stage we risk ruining him and draining him of any confidence to play at the top level 
Really? 
