As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Bradywasking wrote:Cloaked Gooner...
As ludicrous as this may sound this is not an anti Wenger forum, it is not a Wenger bashing forum.. This is a pro Arsenal forum and the vast majority on here , myself included, believe that Arsenal FC with Arsene Wenger as manager is on a repeat cycle to nowhere..
We recently dug up some old posts here from back in the day. Most at that time were willing to show patience with Wenger as possibly a mark of respect for his achievements. Now time has eroded that patience and replaced it with anything from frustration to hate. That is not our fault, we are loyal Arsenal FC fans , we want our club to compete in the top two competitions open to us (Premier and Champions Leagues). Yes we moan about those two competitions for their financial influences on the game we love, but when we are in them we do actually want to win them. What I do not want ,or more accurately, care for anymore is the worshiping of a European Competition by my club because of said financial benefits while showing little capability and less desire to actually attempt winning it.
I now support a football club that in the manager's own words sees finishing fourth in a two or three horse race as an achievement, I now support a football club where players with any ambition up sticks and leave. I have slaughtered them as mercenaries on this forum , but I support Arsenal they don't in reality. They are footballers , maybe the want bigger pay packets elsewhere but they also want success and honours that are not coming to London N5 anytime soon. I and we can console , or have consoled ourselves in the past, that their (former players) heads were turned by Arab or Russian money or by Spanish whore masters. Wrong in reality and equally in reality we know it and in fact if Sanchez and Ozil depart this Summer we will really know why. I would imagine if both of the above do leave we will be a lot less critical of them.
I now support a football club who's manager cannot see the most basic of failures on a football pitch from ten yards where I and everyone else can see it from a stand seat or a TV screen. For example , Danny Welbeck at Tottenham , honest lad Danny I have great time for his endevour . But his manager said "Danny , rights side of midfield today"...That was a hole filled on the pitch by Arsene..next player please. So early in the game despite leading we were getting hammered , a young fullback was getting exposed and overloaded. I saw it in my Dublin living room staring at the TV, only one person didn't and he was the only one that mattered. That is the manager of Arsenal FC..
Our manager is making increasingly erratic statements like how we sacrifice the Champions League for FA Cup success. Blackburn, Man Utd away 0-4 and 0-2 , Sunderland , Stoke... was that the success he speaks of ? If we qualify for the Champions League 2015-16 I haven't aclue who we will play but I can confidentially predict when we will get knocked out and that will be nothing to do with FA Cup priorities.
We come on this forum because we are loyal Arsenal supporters, I would like nothing better than coming on here reading and writing posts about a competitive Arsenal FC (no one demands success only demand is to be competitive) . I live in a City where demands for success by "fans" often means changing sport and jumping on successful bandwagons. I have no interest in that for myself or my club.
We are tired of mediocrity , tired of excuses , tired of promises, tired of losing our better players, tired of having our passion for our team drained to a point of loving our club but not caring about our results , we are tired of so much and because of that we are tired of Arsene Wenger as our manager.. He is manager and everything is his responsibility. .
I think that about says it all, in a non-combatative and very reasoned manner well done BWK
The AKB'S always pose the question as to whether Wenger outs would change our view on Wenger, if we won the CL or PL. Well that is the main problem, we are never going to win either(again in the case of the PL). Lets look at our record in the last 10 years, we haven't finished in the top two since 2005, and in that time, we have even seen a one man L'pool team manage to finish in the top two. As for the CL, our record under Wenger is disgraceful, one final, and two semi final appearances, and barring a miracle against Monaco, we are going to go out at the last 16 stage, for the fifth year in a row. Really seems we are on the verge of a breakthrough doesn't it
I agree with Itchy. Even if by some miracle we ended up winning both the league and CL, that still wouldn't make up for all the times in the past when he squandered the opportunities to win stuff due to his stubbornness and arrogance. Although those two trophies would be more than welcomed, it certainly wouldn't invalidate all the criticism levelled at him during these past few years or prove his critics wrong. It's way too late for that.
flash gunner wrote:How do you even know he was an investment banker? You can't pick and chose who you believe off the internet because it suits you. My understanding is Arsenals accounts are available to everyone if they want or can be bothered to read/study them (I cant)
Itchy instead of reading and believing anyone who vaguely goes along with you train of thought, bumming up anyone who agrees with you and throwing insults at those that don't YOU get the figures, study them and give us your view then I'd be happy to read it not some semi anonymous bloke off the internet
To be fair Flash, I've always found Swiss Ramble to be:
I Hate Hleb wrote:I agree with Itchy. Even if by some miracle we ended up winning both the league and CL, that still wouldn't make up for all the times in the past when he squandered the opportunities to win stuff due to his stubbornness and arrogance. Although those two trophies would be more than welcomed, it certainly wouldn't invalidate all the criticism levelled at him during these past few years or prove his critics wrong. It's way too late for that.
I don't think for a moment that winning the league would invalidate past mistakes but you don't win the league by accident or luck, the best team wins it the worst team comes bottom after 38 games so should we win it he has done something/many things correctly and I would happily admit I was wrong to think he's past it and should be sacked
flash gunner wrote:How do you even know he was an investment banker? You can't pick and chose who you believe off the internet because it suits you. My understanding is Arsenals accounts are available to everyone if they want or can be bothered to read/study them (I cant)
Itchy instead of reading and believing anyone who vaguely goes along with you train of thought, bumming up anyone who agrees with you and throwing insults at those that don't YOU get the figures, study them and give us your view then I'd be happy to read it not some semi anonymous bloke off the internet
To be fair Flash, I've always found Swiss Ramble to be:
foxinthebox2001 wrote:Baffled by the quote from Wenger that '72 points will get 4th spot', but it does underline his mediocre ambitions.
He is saying its cool to take 21 points from the last 33, or we can afford to lose 4 from the last 11 games and should still attain our goal.
Personally I would say to the players we want to get 84 points, that is try to win the final 11 games and lets see where that takes us.
It says everything you need to know about Wengers style of management, and the stagnancy of ambition at board level. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ances.html
I'm not going on the Mail so I'll take your word for it. If that is true (and not spun by some two-bit hack) then I find it rather pathetic.
"4th. 4th everyone, it is 4th. 4th is our target. Did I mention it is 4th? Yes? Good. As soon as I achieve super-duper-4th-placed-ethical-super-trophy you may all congratulate me and bask in my relative failure."
I Hate Hleb wrote:I agree with Itchy. Even if by some miracle we ended up winning both the league and CL, that still wouldn't make up for all the times in the past when he squandered the opportunities to win stuff due to his stubbornness and arrogance. Although those two trophies would be more than welcomed, it certainly wouldn't invalidate all the criticism levelled at him during these past few years or prove his critics wrong. It's way too late for that.
I don't think for a moment that winning the league would invalidate past mistakes but you don't win the league by accident or luck, the best team wins it the worst team comes bottom after 38 games so should we win it he has done something/many things correctly and I would happily admit I was wrong to think he's past it and should be sacked
I don't actually subscribe to that axiom. There has been many a year when the 'best team' hasn't won it or the 'worst team' didn't come bottom. Sometimes it's the decisions taken by the people in charge that has had huge significance and resulted in the outcomes and it's not been just about the talent available to each team.
flash gunner wrote:How do you even know he was an investment banker? You can't pick and chose who you believe off the internet because it suits you. My understanding is Arsenals accounts are available to everyone if they want or can be bothered to read/study them (I cant)
Itchy instead of reading and believing anyone who vaguely goes along with you train of thought, bumming up anyone who agrees with you and throwing insults at those that don't YOU get the figures, study them and give us your view then I'd be happy to read it not some semi anonymous bloke off the internet
To be fair Flash, I've always found Swiss Ramble to be:
We'll have to agree to disagree mate I firmly believe the best team wins it each and every year and elements of luck and bad decisions even themselves out over a season
Surely the decisions made by the manager also impact? If you have the best players but don't have a good manager then that will have a bearing on where you finish. Likewise the reverse and at the other end of the table. You don't have to look too far back to see plenty of examples. Palace were certain to be relegated last season before they changed manager midway through and yet they eventually finished near halfway up the table. There are plenty more, including ourselves in 2008 /2003 /1999 etc.
I Hate Hleb wrote:Surely the decisions made by the manager also impact? If you have the best players but don't have a good manager then that will have a bearing on where you finish. Likewise the reverse and at the other end of the table. You don't have to look too far back to see plenty of examples.
Of course the manager I regard him as part of the bigger team.... I believe the team we have now or have had in recent past could have done better with a different manager. I thought you meant refereeing decisions decided titles and IMO they don't
There are plenty more, including ourselves in 2008 /2003 /1999 etc.