The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

[Allgunsblazin]

Sorry Brexit doesn't necessarily mean hard Brexit, it's such a simplistic populist thing to say.


Actually the referendum gave two choices :- Leave or Remain

. If you stay, you stay and accept all the rules of the club , If you leave you walk out of the door and close it behind you.

As such there is no hard or soft option .

You are right, just like in 1974, the referendum put to the nation was to remain and leavers left it like that...
If this vote was not legal then the one in 74 should have been challenged in the High Court, but like Clash has said the fat controllers wanted it that way.
I also did not see the 3rd option of SOFT, and I do not think the EU gave us that choice either, Out is Out as far as both parties are concerned, this is hardly a vote put to the powers like the ERM one under Major, where we had our cake and ate it, so access to the single market will be a polite but hard NON, especially after the shenanigans of those rich people going to the Court with their empty bowls crying please sir can we have some more moolah!....

[A11M11]

Thick ?? Thanks a bunch.

Your problem and those of your ilk is that you wish to over complicate things . Only by muddying the waters can you hide your true intentions. You accuse leavers of being unprepared but in truth it was the government that made no contingency for the fact they could lose and that they needed to plan for both outcomes. So if I and the leave campaigners are thick , by extension it means that the remain campaign which was and still is the only group of people with the power to do anything were negligent.
Certain things are in black and white and despite as much as you wish to make grey it is unlikely that Junker & co are going to back out of their plan which was started many years ago and allow us to cherry pick our way through their myriad of treaties.
It's a new dawn and we have to get on with the job of forging our position in the new world. Looking over our shoulders at Brussels and Strasbourg is not the way to go.If we are to leave, and that's what the people voted for, then leave we must . It's a divorce , no going back for a quick one on Friday night . Just walk away and get on with it.

[nut flush gooner]

Thick ?? Thanks a bunch.

Your problem and those of your ilk is that you wish to over complicate things . Only by muddying the waters can you hide your true intentions. You accuse leavers of being unprepared but in truth it was the government that made no contingency for the fact they could lose and that they needed to plan for both outcomes. So if I and the leave campaigners are thick , by extension it means that the remain campaign which was and still is the only group of people with the power to do anything were negligent.
Certain things are in black and white and despite as much as you wish to make grey it is unlikely that Junker & co are going to back out of their plan which was started many years ago and allow us to cherry pick our way through their myriad of treaties.
It's a new dawn and we have to get on with the job of forging our position in the new world. Looking over our shoulders at Brussels and Strasbourg is not the way to go.If we are to leave, and that's what the people voted for, then leave we must . It's a divorce , no going back for a quick one on Friday night . Just walk away and get on with it.

How the hell can you over complicate something that is already complicated .

The Government where in favour of remaining in the EU, so I do not think it was their responsibility to decide how we would deal with Brexit, especially if the outcome lead to them either leaving politics or getting sacked from the cabinet!

It was Farage, Gove, Johnson and all their cronies that lit the touch paper. So they should have had a plan to lead us out of the EU but they didn't. That's the funny thing even now, the people can't see they where completely duped by the leave campaign. Would you go to the shops and buy something if you didn't really know what it is you are purchasing?

All I hear is hot air from the Brexiteers, it's almost a denial that a lot of you didn't have a clue what you where voting for.

[A11M11]

Unless the people you named were going to form the government they had no power to do anything , so it wasn't their responsibility . That could only lie with those that have the power to enact it.
Stop telling me that I have not got a clue , I disagree with you but believe me I have read an awful lot of papers ( not Daily ones ) on the workings of the E,U . It is a corrupt organisation that was formed for a purpose back with Eisenhower and that purpose was to ensure the influence of America over the then Western Europe post war. The Euro was a means to control Europe's economy by preventing countries from full control over their monetary policies . You can look to Bilderberg to see the power brokers behind the whole thing.

[nut flush gooner]

Unless the people you named were going to form the government they had no power to do anything , so it wasn't their responsibility . That could only lie with those that have the power to enact it.
Stop telling me that I have not got a clue , I disagree with you but believe me I have read an awful lot of papers ( not Daily ones ) on the workings of the E,U . It is a corrupt organisation that was formed for a purpose back with Eisenhower and that purpose was to ensure the influence of America over the then Western Europe post war. The Euro was a means to control Europe's economy by preventing countries from full control over their monetary policies . You can look to Bilderberg to see the power brokers behind the whole thing.

It's called contingency planning, and if the leave camp took this route they would have been in a position to present a coherent argument for leaving the EU but they didn't. They winged it.

We didn't join the Euro, so that's not even relevant to the debate. As for Eisenhower, lol I think your argument or lack of it is getting a bit sidetracked here.

[A11M11]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/a-unified- ... pe/5531383.

Takes a bit of reading but !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GoonerMuzz]

Nutflush again you are confusing the issue with straw man arguments, you say we need to have an election so the Tories can tell us what they intend to do with Brexit, but that would be pure political suicide not to mention hamper the negotiations for two reasons:

1) They would be announcing to the EU exactly what our priorities are and what they intend to do, basically playing poker with your hand showing and obviously this would severely hamper our negotiating position.

2) They have absolutely no idea what they can get currently because the EU President has categorically stated there will be no negotiation until article 50 is triggered, and therefore what they plan to do would be pure speculation and what they actually get could be completed different things. If they based their manifesto on those plans and then they didn't get it the pro-EU group would jump all over it saying 'you said you'd get us this and didn't you've screwed the whole country over '.

You are obviously not a stupid individual from what you post but you seriously underrate other posters on here if you think they can't see the holes in your arguments. Any negotiation has to be done from as relative a position of strength as possible and to announce to the electorate exactly what they intend to get would be like a red rag to a bull as far as the EU is concerned, i don't think any of us are as naive as to believe the EU are going to make this easy for the UK.

As for your point on UKIP being in complete disarray i totally agree but i'm willing to bet Herds recent 10k investment (always better to use someone else money ) in the climbing £ that a reversal of the outcome of the the referendum would immediately refocus them and a lot of voters would flock to them especially with how weak Labour and the Lib Dems are currently.

[GoonerMuzz]

Older document but concerning read all the same :

https://ec.europa.eu/priorities/publica ... y-union_en

Not sure i want to see us entering the Euro nor being responsible for paying, along with only a few other countries the lions share of the costs involved in this.

I still feel personally that the cost of full integration and the long term inherent dangers involved with remaining in the EU in its current guise would be way in excess of what it may cost us leaving the EU over the next 5 years, i also feel that change within the EU in its current guise are next to impossible because those at the top have their own personal vision for it and will not be swayed by any individual countries feelings, the EU are very good at playing us all off against each other to sustain their way of doing things.

[olgitgooner]

The three judges involved in this dangerous game are NOT impartial processors of law.
They are pro EU and anti Brexit.
According to them, Royal Prerogative counts for diddly squat.
Three different judges might well have ruled differently.
It's a ridiculous situation.

[Allgunsblazin]

The three judges involved in this dangerous game are NOT impartial processors of law.
They are pro EU and anti Brexit.
According to them, Royal Prerogative counts for diddly squat.
Three different judges might well have ruled differently.
It's a ridiculous situation.

That mega rich Guyanan bird is a right bit o top totty.....

[northbank123]

The three judges involved in this dangerous game are NOT impartial processors of law.
They are pro EU and anti Brexit.
According to them, Royal Prerogative counts for diddly squat.
Three different judges might well have ruled differently.
It's a ridiculous situation.

Three judges might well have decided differently. Such is the intricacy of our judicial system, or in fact any judicial system. I've heard all 9 judges will be sitting in the Supreme Court for the first time?

It's not that royal prerogative counts for nothing, it's that it can't be said to cover this particular situation.

[GoonerMuzz]

Not sure that the judiciary can actually be called impartial on this one, i'm fairly sure that just after the referendum a letter was written and cosigned by over 1000 judges and top lawyers saying leaving the EU was a bad idea.

Nobody is impartial on this and lets be honest staying in the EU is better for our judicial system if for no other reason than it saves them a job of work rewriting things

[nut flush gooner]

Nutflush again you are confusing the issue with straw man arguments, you say we need to have an election so the Tories can tell us what they intend to do with Brexit, but that would be pure political suicide not to mention hamper the negotiations for two reasons:

1) They would be announcing to the EU exactly what our priorities are and what they intend to do, basically playing poker with your hand showing and obviously this would severely hamper our negotiating position.

2) They have absolutely no idea what they can get currently because the EU President has categorically stated there will be no negotiation until article 50 is triggered, and therefore what they plan to do would be pure speculation and what they actually get could be completed different things. If they based their manifesto on those plans and then they didn't get it the pro-EU group would jump all over it saying 'you said you'd get us this and didn't you've screwed the whole country over '.

You are obviously not a stupid individual from what you post but you seriously underrate other posters on here if you think they can't see the holes in your arguments. Any negotiation has to be done from as relative a position of strength as possible and to announce to the electorate exactly what they intend to get would be like a red rag to a bull as far as the EU is concerned, i don't think any of us are as naive as to believe the EU are going to make this easy for the UK.

As for your point on UKIP being in complete disarray i totally agree but i'm willing to bet Herds recent 10k investment (always better to use someone else money ) in the climbing £ that a reversal of the outcome of the the referendum would immediately refocus them and a lot of voters would flock to them especially with how weak Labour and the Lib Dems are currently.

Straw Man argument, hardly. It's amazing when something is said in the media people seize on it. One example being playing a game of poker with the EU. The hands have already been dealt, but in this game no bluffing is allowed and why should we even attempt to bluff.

The EU know what our priorities are, it's just a case of affirming what is pretty obvious. As an example we are not hiding our cards if we seek tariff free trade as a starting point. It is also pretty obvious we want to control immigration into this country from EU citizens.

You talk about position of strength, in poker you will win over the longer run if you understand the fundamentals better than your opponents. With regards to EU there is no "edge" so to speak, so why try and make it a game of poker. Doing this will only make the whole process more drawn out.

TM is in India today, and you know the subject that has been brought up by the Indians, yes it's immigration. They are saying if the UK wants a tariff free trade deal with us, and access to their 200m up and coming middle classes that we have to concede some ground with their talented young well educated middle class professionals, who can't come to the UK to study then stay on and work in what would be quite well paid roles.

I can see large swathes of Brexiteers having a hissy fit over the thought of more immigrants coming to the UK from outside the EU. One of the selling points of leaving the EU was that we can trade with the rest of the world, well I tell you this every country that is "emerging" such as India and China will want immigration to form part of any future trade deals.

I missed herds quote on betting the £ will strengthen versus the dollar, having been intoxicated with alcohol on NLD weekend, but would say it's very dangerous trying to trade fx. He is a braver man than me!

[flash gunner]

TM is in India today, and you know the subject that has been brought up by the Indians, yes it's immigration. They are saying if the UK wants a tariff free trade deal with us, and access to their 200m up and coming middle classes that we have to concede some ground with their talented young well educated middle class professionals, who can't come to the UK to study then stay on and work in what would be quite well paid roles.

I can see large swathes of Brexiteers having a hissy fit over the thought of more immigrants coming to the UK from outside the EU. One of the selling points of leaving the EU was that we can trade with the rest of the world, well I tell you this every country that is "emerging" such as India and China will want immigration to form part of any future trade deals.

My thoughts on immigration from outside of the EU is its unfair to have limits and restrictions on the Indians (for example) who would benefit the UK economy and the UK in general and have totally unrestricted unskilled immigration from within the EU that makes the poor poorer that is whats so unfair about the EU immigration and immigration from outside the EU

[nut flush gooner]

TM is in India today, and you know the subject that has been brought up by the Indians, yes it's immigration. They are saying if the UK wants a tariff free trade deal with us, and access to their 200m up and coming middle classes that we have to concede some ground with their talented young well educated middle class professionals, who can't come to the UK to study then stay on and work in what would be quite well paid roles.

I can see large swathes of Brexiteers having a hissy fit over the thought of more immigrants coming to the UK from outside the EU. One of the selling points of leaving the EU was that we can trade with the rest of the world, well I tell you this every country that is "emerging" such as India and China will want immigration to form part of any future trade deals.

My thoughts on immigration from outside of the EU is its unfair to have limits and restrictions on the Indians (for example) who would benefit the UK economy and the UK in general and have totally unrestricted unskilled immigration from within the EU that makes the poor poorer that is whats so unfair about the EU immigration and immigration from outside the EU

That's fair enough, but you cannot just say that immigration from the EU is only unskilled labour. I used to rent a spare room out in my old gaff up in Enfield when I got divorced a few years ago. Had a Polish lad stay, he was very well educated and worked in the city. To say immigration from the EU is largely unskilled labour is not true there are an awful lot of professional people in the UK from the EU.

With regards to India, trust me there are a lot of Brexiteers who unlike you won't care how skilled the Indians are. They want their country back in the truest form.