Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[SteveO 35]

Dunno who lauded chris wilder as a top manager, but what I will say is that everything is relative - what he has achieved at that club on that budget, is outstanding, and the notion of sacking him is bizarre to me.

I think I heard the other day that they have lost 8 or 9 games by a scoreline of 1-0 this season - that shows how narrow their results have been from poor to decent, and it's not as if they are getting turned over

Yeah, lets all knock Chris Wilder - whose team should never be in this division to start with and who overachieved on a scale not seen in this country since Wimbledon's day. A team who still had players from their League One days, and a team whose record signing up to last season was Ollie McBurnie and finished on par with us last season

I know, they're bottom now, which clearly makes him a shit manager doesn't it, because being bottom of the PL is so much worse than the position of being in the lower half of League One and virtually bankrupt when he inherited the job

Honest to god.

I agree. With the bit in red.

Just because you've always been a Sean Dyche man, doesn't mean you should belittle Chris Wilder mate

[Clummo99]

Dunno who lauded chris wilder as a top manager, but what I will say is that everything is relative - what he has achieved at that club on that budget, is outstanding, and the notion of sacking him is bizarre to me.

I think I heard the other day that they have lost 8 or 9 games by a scoreline of 1-0 this season - that shows how narrow their results have been from poor to decent, and it's not as if they are getting turned over

Yeah, lets all knock Chris Wilder - whose team should never be in this division to start with and who overachieved on a scale not seen in this country since Wimbledon's day. A team who still had players from their League One days, and a team whose record signing up to last season was Ollie McBurnie and finished on par with us last season

I know, they're bottom now, which clearly makes him a shit manager doesn't it, because being bottom of the PL is so much worse than the position of being in the lower half of League One and virtually bankrupt when he inherited the job

Honest to god.

So Chris Wilder deserves a shot at a top job based on a few seasons of "over achievement" (direct quote there) That smacks of just plain luck to me rather than any managerial prowess.

You're soooo easy to wind up Stevo!

[DB10GOONER]

Dunno who lauded chris wilder as a top manager, but what I will say is that everything is relative - what he has achieved at that club on that budget, is outstanding, and the notion of sacking him is bizarre to me.

I think I heard the other day that they have lost 8 or 9 games by a scoreline of 1-0 this season - that shows how narrow their results have been from poor to decent, and it's not as if they are getting turned over

Yeah, lets all knock Chris Wilder - whose team should never be in this division to start with and who overachieved on a scale not seen in this country since Wimbledon's day. A team who still had players from their League One days, and a team whose record signing up to last season was Ollie McBurnie and finished on par with us last season

I know, they're bottom now, which clearly makes him a shit manager doesn't it, because being bottom of the PL is so much worse than the position of being in the lower half of League One and virtually bankrupt when he inherited the job

Honest to god.

I agree. With the bit in red.

Just because you've always been a Sean Dyche man, doesn't mean you should belittle Chris Wilder mate

Fair point. But can Chris speak with a throat full of jizz like Sean....?

[SteveO 35]

Dunno who lauded chris wilder as a top manager, but what I will say is that everything is relative - what he has achieved at that club on that budget, is outstanding, and the notion of sacking him is bizarre to me.

I think I heard the other day that they have lost 8 or 9 games by a scoreline of 1-0 this season - that shows how narrow their results have been from poor to decent, and it's not as if they are getting turned over

Yeah, lets all knock Chris Wilder - whose team should never be in this division to start with and who overachieved on a scale not seen in this country since Wimbledon's day. A team who still had players from their League One days, and a team whose record signing up to last season was Ollie McBurnie and finished on par with us last season

I know, they're bottom now, which clearly makes him a shit manager doesn't it, because being bottom of the PL is so much worse than the position of being in the lower half of League One and virtually bankrupt when he inherited the job

Honest to god.

So Chris Wilder deserves a shot at a top job based on a few seasons of "over achievement" (direct quote there) That smacks of just plain luck to me rather than any managerial prowess.

You're soooo easy to wind up Stevo!

Well if a few seasons of over achieving with a smaller club doesn't deserve a shot at a bigger job, what does?

Isn't that what life is all about. Proving your worth somewhere, and then someone taking a chance on you to do a bigger job? Bit like that George Graham bloke once did when he stepped up from Millwall.......

[SteveO 35]

Dunno who lauded chris wilder as a top manager, but what I will say is that everything is relative - what he has achieved at that club on that budget, is outstanding, and the notion of sacking him is bizarre to me.

I think I heard the other day that they have lost 8 or 9 games by a scoreline of 1-0 this season - that shows how narrow their results have been from poor to decent, and it's not as if they are getting turned over

Yeah, lets all knock Chris Wilder - whose team should never be in this division to start with and who overachieved on a scale not seen in this country since Wimbledon's day. A team who still had players from their League One days, and a team whose record signing up to last season was Ollie McBurnie and finished on par with us last season

I know, they're bottom now, which clearly makes him a shit manager doesn't it, because being bottom of the PL is so much worse than the position of being in the lower half of League One and virtually bankrupt when he inherited the job

Honest to god.

I agree. With the bit in red.

Just because you've always been a Sean Dyche man, doesn't mean you should belittle Chris Wilder mate

Fair point. But can Chris speak with a throat full of jizz like Sean....?

Multi tasking mate - it's all the rage for the modern man. You and your trendy beard rugger bugger mates should know that

[DB10GOONER]

Yeah, lets all knock Chris Wilder - whose team should never be in this division to start with and who overachieved on a scale not seen in this country since Wimbledon's day. A team who still had players from their League One days, and a team whose record signing up to last season was Ollie McBurnie and finished on par with us last season

I know, they're bottom now, which clearly makes him a shit manager doesn't it, because being bottom of the PL is so much worse than the position of being in the lower half of League One and virtually bankrupt when he inherited the job

Honest to god.

I agree. With the bit in red.

Just because you've always been a Sean Dyche man, doesn't mean you should belittle Chris Wilder mate

Fair point. But can Chris speak with a throat full of jizz like Sean....?

Multi tasking mate - it's all the rage for the modern man. You and your trendy beard rugger bugger mates should know that

There's a line mate.... there's a line....

[Clummo99]

Dunno who lauded chris wilder as a top manager, but what I will say is that everything is relative - what he has achieved at that club on that budget, is outstanding, and the notion of sacking him is bizarre to me.

I think I heard the other day that they have lost 8 or 9 games by a scoreline of 1-0 this season - that shows how narrow their results have been from poor to decent, and it's not as if they are getting turned over

Yeah, lets all knock Chris Wilder - whose team should never be in this division to start with and who overachieved on a scale not seen in this country since Wimbledon's day. A team who still had players from their League One days, and a team whose record signing up to last season was Ollie McBurnie and finished on par with us last season

I know, they're bottom now, which clearly makes him a shit manager doesn't it, because being bottom of the PL is so much worse than the position of being in the lower half of League One and virtually bankrupt when he inherited the job

Honest to god.

So Chris Wilder deserves a shot at a top job based on a few seasons of "over achievement" (direct quote there) That smacks of just plain luck to me rather than any managerial prowess.

You're soooo easy to wind up Stevo!

Well if a few seasons of over achieving with a smaller club doesn't deserve a shot at a bigger job, what does?

Isn't that what life is all about. Proving your worth somewhere, and then someone taking a chance on you to do a bigger job? Bit like that George Graham bloke once did when he stepped up from Millwall.......

Conversely also a bit like Eddie Howe though. Did a fantastic job of getting Bournemouth into the top flight and staying there for a few years before finally exhausting his talent pool and running out of ideas on how to make that next step. Sometimes a manager is at the level they are destined to be at?

[DB10GOONER]

Dunno who lauded chris wilder as a top manager, but what I will say is that everything is relative - what he has achieved at that club on that budget, is outstanding, and the notion of sacking him is bizarre to me.

I think I heard the other day that they have lost 8 or 9 games by a scoreline of 1-0 this season - that shows how narrow their results have been from poor to decent, and it's not as if they are getting turned over

Yeah, lets all knock Chris Wilder - whose team should never be in this division to start with and who overachieved on a scale not seen in this country since Wimbledon's day. A team who still had players from their League One days, and a team whose record signing up to last season was Ollie McBurnie and finished on par with us last season

I know, they're bottom now, which clearly makes him a shit manager doesn't it, because being bottom of the PL is so much worse than the position of being in the lower half of League One and virtually bankrupt when he inherited the job

Honest to god.

So Chris Wilder deserves a shot at a top job based on a few seasons of "over achievement" (direct quote there) That smacks of just plain luck to me rather than any managerial prowess.

You're soooo easy to wind up Stevo!

Well if a few seasons of over achieving with a smaller club doesn't deserve a shot at a bigger job, what does?

Isn't that what life is all about. Proving your worth somewhere, and then someone taking a chance on you to do a bigger job? Bit like that George Graham bloke once did when he stepped up from Millwall.......

Have to agree with that. But would add GG was the exception obviously as the likes of Fat Sam, Curbishly, Pubis, O'Neill, Moyes, etc etc all clearly demonstrated when their step up to bigger clubs (at different levels) all failed miserably.

Wilder (and even Dyche ) have earned a shot at a bigger club. Do I think they will succeed? If I'm being brutally honest no I dont think they will, but there is always that chance they might, just like GG did with us.

God I still miss the GG days so much. Just fucking love that man.

[Clummo99]

Football was a very different beast back then though DB and Graham was an exception to the rule. There is no way any top 6 club would make that appointment nowadays. They'd rather go for the totally non-experienced and untested former player.

[Clummo99]

And Stevo, I'll reign the mischief in a bit and try not to wind you up so often. My apologies if it got too much and I was becoming a bit of a dick!

[SteveO 35]

Dunno who lauded chris wilder as a top manager, but what I will say is that everything is relative - what he has achieved at that club on that budget, is outstanding, and the notion of sacking him is bizarre to me.

I think I heard the other day that they have lost 8 or 9 games by a scoreline of 1-0 this season - that shows how narrow their results have been from poor to decent, and it's not as if they are getting turned over

Yeah, lets all knock Chris Wilder - whose team should never be in this division to start with and who overachieved on a scale not seen in this country since Wimbledon's day. A team who still had players from their League One days, and a team whose record signing up to last season was Ollie McBurnie and finished on par with us last season

I know, they're bottom now, which clearly makes him a shit manager doesn't it, because being bottom of the PL is so much worse than the position of being in the lower half of League One and virtually bankrupt when he inherited the job

Honest to god.

So Chris Wilder deserves a shot at a top job based on a few seasons of "over achievement" (direct quote there) That smacks of just plain luck to me rather than any managerial prowess.

You're soooo easy to wind up Stevo!

Well if a few seasons of over achieving with a smaller club doesn't deserve a shot at a bigger job, what does?

Isn't that what life is all about. Proving your worth somewhere, and then someone taking a chance on you to do a bigger job? Bit like that George Graham bloke once did when he stepped up from Millwall.......

Conversely also a bit like Eddie Howe though. Did a fantastic job of getting Bournemouth into the top flight and staying there for a few years before finally exhausting his talent pool and running out of ideas on how to make that next step. Sometimes a manager is at the level they are destined to be at?

I guess with Eddie Howe (or any of them in that category) - none of us will ever know until they get a chance. In any other walk of life when a guy does a great job at a smaller company, it usually gives him a shot at a step up.

In this country we have such a snobbish attitude towards our own managers. Someone like Graham Potter went to Sweden, and did much what Chris Wilder did (in a Mickey Mouse league with dodgy money too!) and then all of a sudden landed a PL job. If some bloke with a great sounding name did the same in Spain or Germany, PL teams would be fawning over them and giving them a shot.

I agree with DB10 - some managers can't step up. I remember Mike Walker getting that shot at Everton and he nearly relegated them having got Norwich into the UEFA Cup. Its never going to be a 100% success rate. Some guys are destined to manage small clubs forever, but some will apply what they've learned and do a decent job. Martin O'Neill for example at Wycombe, before getting Leicester and Villa then punching above their respective levels.

I think Wilder has done an amazing job, and Dyche too. Neither of those clubs have a right to be anywhere near the PL. If they go down, I don't think it makes them bad managers. Fuck me Roberto Martinez did it at Wigan and landed the Belgium job!

On the others side of the coin, we've taken a chance on a bloke who has only coached (briefly) and never managed. Could he turn into the next Pep and prove me and loads of others wrong? Of course he could, and lets hope he can. Could he also be a Tony Adams and turn out to be a managerial dud? Equally likely.

[augie]

Personally I dont agree with the graham potter reference - yes he went to sweden and got his top flight chance via on a largely untravelled route, but that doesnt make him a success - in the last 4 games they got 10 points, but prior to that they were balls deep in the relegation zone. Is he doing any better than chris hughton was doing there ?

[SteveO 35]

Personally I dont agree with the graham potter reference - yes he went to sweden and got his top flight chance via on a largely untravelled route, but that doesnt make him a success - in the last 4 games they got 10 points, but prior to that they were balls deep in the relegation zone. Is he doing any better than chris hughton was doing there ?

Not the point I'm making at all. I think Potter is shite......but because he went abroad and got the dodgy money men promoted through 3 divisions he is hailed as some kind of hero.......where as when someone does it here, it is sneered upon. People would rather take a chance on Potter than Wilder or Dyche

[Clummo99]

Personally I dont agree with the graham potter reference - yes he went to sweden and got his top flight chance via on a largely untravelled route, but that doesnt make him a success - in the last 4 games they got 10 points, but prior to that they were balls deep in the relegation zone. Is he doing any better than chris hughton was doing there ?

Not the point I'm making at all. I think Potter is shite......but because he went abroad and got the dodgy money men promoted through 3 divisions he is hailed as some kind of hero.......where as when someone does it here, it is sneered upon. People would rather take a chance on Potter than Wilder or Dyche

But aren't Potter, Wilder and Dyce of the same ilk? Likewise Sheffield Utd, Burnley and Brighton. I'm not sure your example holds true there. If someone like Everton had employed Potter then yes I'd maybe agree.

[mcdowell42]

@m8arteta has been nominated for the @PremierLeague Manager of the Month award for January!


Augie, thought you and Stevo might like to vote in this,as ye are 2 of his biggest fans