THE WENGER THREAD

[Steve_I]

Hmm pro-Wenger posters are a bit quiet at the moment :

Yeah!


Unbelievable stuff

[g88ner]

The only way this team could win another title - apart from perhaps getting rid of Wenger - is if they do it coming from behind. No way this lot could head the table with a few games to go and NOT somehow find a way to blow it. Mental strength? Spirit? Who are you trying to kid Arsene? The famous quote: 'You can fool all of the people some of the time; and some of the people all of the time; but you can't fool ALL of the people All of the time' is so apt when it comes to our manager.

Couldn't agree more.

We seem to respond to most dire situations and claw our way back from the dead but every time we have breathing room we falter.

It's a mental weakness that is typical of a Wenger team.

[arseofacrow]

The only way this team could win another title - apart from perhaps getting rid of Wenger - is if they do it coming from behind. No way this lot could head the table with a few games to go and NOT somehow find a way to blow it. Mental strength? Spirit? Who are you trying to kid Arsene? The famous quote: 'You can fool all of the people some of the time; and some of the people all of the time; but you can't fool ALL of the people All of the time' is so apt when it comes to our manager.

Couldn't agree more.

We seem to respond to most dire situations and claw our way back from the dead but every time we have breathing room we falter.

It's a mental weakness that is typical of a Wenger team.

And it's always more than clear in the amount of "mental strength and spirit" drivel they churn out. I maintain that when you have these qualities you don't need to talk about them.

[g88ner]

Intrigued to know if those who have recently stated that we have made progress this season would agree that if we end up 4th, with fewer points than last season and lose the FA Cup final that we have in fact regressed?

I don't see why we need to compare this season to last. Last season was our most successful season in a decade.

I think we've generally progressed over the last 2 seasons.

Do I think it's progress that we've spent big money on Ozil and Sanchez in the last 2 summers? - yes. We've been way off the pace in the transfer market for almost a decade, so it's great to be finally signing players in this bracket.

Do I think 2 FA Cup finals (and at least 1 trophy) is an improvement on a 9 years trophy drought? yes, 100%.

And I'd also say it's progress that people have started ridiculing our "3rd place trophy" (instead of the usual 4th place), ridiculing the "top of the league for most games trophy" and ridiculing our "best team in a calendar year trophy" - surely the fact these "trophies" are occurring more regularly is a sign of progress.

But look... are we progressing ENOUGH? no.

Are we likely to win the league or CL? no.

Doesn't mean we're not showing relative progress - and IchyBaba ridiculing me and belittling my views doesn't make him right.

[arseofacrow]

Intrigued to know if those who have recently stated that we have made progress this season would agree that if we end up 4th, with fewer points than last season and lose the FA Cup final that we have in fact regressed?

I don't see why we need to compare this season to last. Last season was our most successful season in a decade.

I think we've generally progressed over the last 2 seasons.

Do I think it's progress that we've spent big money on Ozil and Sanchez in the last 2 summers? - yes. We've been way off the pace in the transfer market for almost a decade, so it's great to be finally signing players in this bracket.

Do I think 2 FA Cup finals (and at least 1 trophy) is an improvement on a 9 years trophy drought? yes, 100%.

And I'd also say it's progress that people have started ridiculing our "3rd place trophy" (instead of the usual 4th place), ridiculing the "top of the league for most games trophy" and ridiculing our "best team in a calendar year trophy" - surely the fact these "trophies" are occurring more regularly is a sign of progress...

It's not a sign of progress because they're only highlighted (embarrasingly by some Arsenal fans for the first time in anyone's life in any country) to divert attention from the whether actual progress has been made.

Progress in certain areas, yes, in other areas, no.

[g88ner]

Intrigued to know if those who have recently stated that we have made progress this season would agree that if we end up 4th, with fewer points than last season and lose the FA Cup final that we have in fact regressed?

I don't see why we need to compare this season to last. Last season was our most successful season in a decade.

I think we've generally progressed over the last 2 seasons.

Do I think it's progress that we've spent big money on Ozil and Sanchez in the last 2 summers? - yes. We've been way off the pace in the transfer market for almost a decade, so it's great to be finally signing players in this bracket.

Do I think 2 FA Cup finals (and at least 1 trophy) is an improvement on a 9 years trophy drought? yes, 100%.

And I'd also say it's progress that people have started ridiculing our "3rd place trophy" (instead of the usual 4th place), ridiculing the "top of the league for most games trophy" and ridiculing our "best team in a calendar year trophy" - surely the fact these "trophies" are occurring more regularly is a sign of progress...

It's not a sign of progress because they're only highlighted (embarrasingly by some Arsenal fans for the first time in anyone's life in any country) to divert attention from the whether actual progress has been made.

Progress in certain areas, yes, in other areas, no.

This is the thing about this progress debate. It's subjective as everyone has their own opinions on what constitutes progress.

I think cup finals/wins is progress. I think signing big money players is progress. I think failing in the CL is the norm. I think finishing 3rd/4th is the norm. So I can't see how we've regressed to be honest.
- we're stagnant compared to last season, and progressing (relatively) compared to the the years before last season.

But it hardly matters, because almost all Arsenal fans on here will think it's highly unlikely we'll ever finish above a Mourinho managed Chelsea or win the CL with Wenger in charge, so I'm sure most agree we've not progressed enough.

[hartson]

Didnt want to post last night as far too angry. I would however like to voice support for the tika-taka style we play. To use it to its full potential though will take just a few tweeks. 1 every now and again have a dig from outside the box whilst you got the opposition pinned back. 2 mix it a little with the odd counter attack, draw the oppo out YOU DONT HAVE TO PRESS ALL THE TIME. 3 the downfull of our system is concentration of the defenders full backs always pushing on, if you cant deliver the cross Gomis dosnt score. 4 the most frustraiting of all, tika-taka is designed to comit the oppo to challanges and when they do we never dive or harras the ref to book players. the last dive i remember was eduardo againt celtic, just dive, roll around, appeal for everything.

[StuartL]

The only way this team could win another title - apart from perhaps getting rid of Wenger - is if they do it coming from behind. No way this lot could head the table with a few games to go and NOT somehow find a way to blow it. Mental strength? Spirit? Who are you trying to kid Arsene? The famous quote: 'You can fool all of the people some of the time; and some of the people all of the time; but you can't fool ALL of the people All of the time' is so apt when it comes to our manager.

Couldn't agree more.

We seem to respond to most dire situations and claw our way back from the dead but every time we have breathing room we falter.

It's a mental weakness that is typical of a Wenger team.

And it's always more than clear in the amount of "mental strength and spirit" drivel they churn out. I maintain that when you have these qualities you don't need to talk about them.

Absofuckinglutely old chap

It's Wenker playing psychologist, tell the press what great spirit, desire, mental strength etc etc to mask the fact that they lack it in abundance and hope if you say it often enough people believe it.

[SPUDMASHER]

Intrigued to know if those who have recently stated that we have made progress this season would agree that if we end up 4th, with fewer points than last season and lose the FA Cup final that we have in fact regressed?

I'd agree with that if it were that black and white.
If you go by stats then we'd definitely have regressed but stats aren't the only thing are they.

Hmm pro-Wenger posters are a bit quiet at the moment :

why do you feel the need to put people into categories?

[Skooner]

Intrigued to know if those who have recently stated that we have made progress this season would agree that if we end up 4th, with fewer points than last season and lose the FA Cup final that we have in fact regressed?

I'd agree with that if it were that black and white.
If you go by stats then we'd definitely have regressed but stats aren't the only thing are they.

Hmm pro-Wenger posters are a bit quiet at the moment :

why do you feel the need to put people into categories?

I agree it is not black and white, but some on here were saying that finishing higher than 4th would be progress. Even if we finish second I don't really see much progress overall. The club has recruited better quality players in recent years, but the underlying issues of weak mentality, limited tactics etc. are still stopping us moving forward and making the step up that would mean genuine progress. I didn't actually say I thought we had regressed, i asked if those using the stats to suggest progress would feel that way. In my opinion we are stagnant and have been for a very long time.

[augie]

I cant understand how the pro wenker camp havent asked why, now that we have better quality players to work with, our points tally is not improving and might actually be less than last season. Having recruited better quality players is one thing, but utilising them and maximising their talents is a totally different thing.

[Top Londoner]

I cant understand how the pro wenker camp havent asked why, now that we have better quality players to work with, our points tally is not improving and might actually be less than last season. Having recruited better quality players is one thing, but utilising them and maximising their talents is a totally different thing.

Can you please not write such nail on the head sense please.









WENGER OUT

[CloakedGooner]

I cant understand how the pro wenker camp havent asked why, now that we have better quality players to work with, our points tally is not improving and might actually be less than last season. Having recruited better quality players is one thing, but utilising them and maximising their talents is a totally different thing.

But our league position has increased. We ARE making progress.

[Clash]

Surely the fact that there is a debate about whether we have progressed is proof that we haven't? Not significantly enough to warrant mentioning it anyway.

Nobody disputes whether we have progressed in seasons where it is clear we have. And what does it prove anyway? 2007/08 was progress on the 2006/07 season but it may as well not have happened by the time the 2008/09 season was under way.

One of the big problems for me is that under Wenger at the Emirates there has been virtually no progression or regression. People might praise that kind of consistency but I have never been so bored watching Arsenal. I would rather have had a few more ups and downs than the monotony of this consistent tedium for what is nearly a decade now.

I want change ... even if things get worse at least its different.

[augie]

I cant understand how the pro wenker camp havent asked why, now that we have better quality players to work with, our points tally is not improving and might actually be less than last season. Having recruited better quality players is one thing, but utilising them and maximising their talents is a totally different thing.

But our league position has increased. We ARE making progress.

Having been duly reprimanded by spuddy and g88ner about how subjective progress is quantified ( ), I refrained from using the word progress and only pointed out that our points tally wont be improved on last season and could quite possibly be less than last season - having said all that, I am still curious to know why you class league position as a more defining way of judging progress over comparing the points tally from both seasons. I will continue to argue that the ONLY issue in our control each season is how many points WE accumulate, and the points needed and league positions is more dependent on the quality of the league and the standard of how high the bar is set to win and challenge for trophies - in other words, if our points tally improves but our league position drops, then that tells me that the standard of the teams around us has also improved