Just go Arsene

TeeCee · Post by **TeeCee** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:33 am

I think we lose sight of the fact that Arsene Wenger is a manager. Football is a game that, on the whole, is results driven. Yes, finances are a very big part these days, a huge part in fact, but results, ultimately, are what matters.
Wenger's teams have failed for the last few years and in the league, have fallen a considerable way behind the leading pack. In that time, he has made some very strange, puzzling and outright bad decisions that have certainly contributed to the failure of the team. He has failed to address weaknesses in the team that he himself has highlighted, and failed to follow through with promises he has made. We have the same excuses throughout the season when explaining our failures and we have the same 'pep talk' of huge potential and future performance. Players seem to be under little pressure to perform consistently (there are no viable replacements for many), bad performances are excused and accepted.
In any business, a manager in that situation would be at the VERY least, under pressure for their job, but everyone at Arsenal, including Wenger, knows that he is under no pressure from his employers whatsoever and that is purely because of finances and the fact that he doesn't want to spend much money.

The board are happy for a positive turnover and CL football each season, that's the sum total of their ambitions
Wenger is happy to give himself the 'safety net' of only having kids, so can he really be expected to win anything?
Mediocre players earn more at Arsenal than any other club in the UK, or probably the world (as proven by the Deloitte and Touche annual report)

We, the mug punters still put up with it and there are even a fair number of fans who think Wenger is either doing a good job, or is likely to change the habits of a football lifetime and go out and buy the 2 or 3 (minimum)experienced, quality players we really need this summer.
Dream on people, we will be here again at the end of next season saying the same things, only a few more people will be questioning the wisdom of continuing with Wenger in charge.
Maybe we should just accept that we aren't a 'big four' team any more.....maybe it's the big three now and we are part of the chasing pack?

carey71 · Post by **carey71** » Fri May 08, 2009 2:35 am

pfft i think some (well most) of this talk is utter nonsense!!!

Wenger should go and the board settle for 4th place?! Are you people for real?

Wenger is Arsenal, and vice versa. Wenger is one of our most successful managers of all time and is a pure footballing genius, he has put Arsenal back on the map during his reign and has worked wonders with very little money. WE have an amazing new stadium, and whilst I feel that 4th place and no trophies is probably the minimum we expect from a season, it has been achieved in a manner which is financially viable. I think that is commendable and Wenger deserves more respect for what he has done/ is doing at the club. If you want to support a club that throws money at players and sacks a manager at every dip in fortune I suggest you'd be happier supporting spurs!

I think it's not hard to see that the team has come on amazingly if you look at the form before and after xmas. How long will we keep having to hear Wenger talking about experience etc? Well the average age of our team is 23ish, so maybe some time but its obvious that they are! Look back at Song and Walcott and how much they have improved, and for trust in Wenger's transfer policy look at the performances of Nasri, Eduardo and Sagna in the previous couple of years

And Man Utd were too physically strong for us on Tues?!! Yes perhaps, or maybe a stroke of misfortune hit and Gibbs slipped over at the wrong time and our keeper misjudged a free kick which meant we were out after 11 mins. I think the team showed character to keep the score down further when i know personally I was broken in the stand. At least they didn't give up and collapse. When you realise that 2/3 of our so called supporters left early, what does it say of our fellow "supporters" character?!

Well this is a rather long first post but deary me, we have been unlucky in the Chelsea and Man Utd semi-finals. These are two games where goalkeeping errors and untimely slips have cost us dearly, yet it is set among one of our most promising period results wise for a long while. I do think that Wenger is not infallible, and I would like to see a decent centre half and defensive midfielder, and possibly a new striker in exchange for Adebayor. But we are not far away and i think (hope) that at least the Arshavin signing goes to show that we will pay out for classy experienced players, when they become available AND when the deal suits the club. And at the end of the day I trust Arsene knows more than us all and what he does choose to do will be correct. WHEN we do win a trophy it will be all the sweeter to have done it the Arsenal way

ElSquirrel · Post by **ElSquirrel** » Fri May 08, 2009 2:56 am

I'll keep Wenger, thank you very much. We have had some injury issues this season - not that it's a new thing, but the club need more depth, not dependent upon graduates from the reserve team, but reliable players. With Arshavin things look bright already. Put some spine in the back line and things will look much better. As for Ade and RvP. I think they need to prove themselves or seek employ elsewhere.

Yankee_Gooner_Dandee · Fri May 08, 2009 4:46 am

i'll take Rjiikard (spelling) right now over arsene. i love arsene and everything he's done, but there comes a time when people are past their prime, things become stale, and its time to move on. hell, even wenger would agree with that, the way he sells our most experienced players.

Rjiikard is available, he likes to play free flowing attacking football, and I think wenger has become stale and predictable. when that happens its time to move on.

wenger is not arsenal. arsenal is not wenger.

carey71 · Post by **carey71** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:42 am

I agree with squirrel, when Eduardo and Rosicky come back it'll be like having a couple of new signings this summer already. Maybe if Eduardo was pushing for the starting line up alongside our front two it may give Ade the boot up the arse he needs too.

Wenger is pure arsenal and he instils this love for our team into most of the players. I don't think Cesc will dream of leavng for Barca even though his greatest hero is the manager there, maybe the fact that Ronaldo is so intent on leaving Utd in contrast shows that success (and a truck load of money thrown to construct the Utd team to gain that instant gratitude) doesn't get you everything.

Wenger's building something special again for us, and if we didn't have him there's no way our recent history would have been so special. If we did get rid of him it would be our worst mistake and there'd be more than the 4 trophyless seasons that everybody keeps crying about in front of us.

Anyway this is futile, there's no way Arsene's leaving so why don't we just get behind him and the boys?!

Post by **REB** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:49 am

rosicky and eddie back you say,,

can either of them play centre half or goalkeeper

because up front and attacking midfielders i seem to remember we have quiet a few

augie · Post by **augie** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:03 am

carey71 wrote:pfft i think some (well most) of this talk is utter nonsense!!!

Wenger should go and the board settle for 4th place?! Are you people for real?

Wenger is Arsenal, and vice versa. Wenger is one of our most successful managers of all time and is a pure footballing genius, he has put Arsenal back on the map during his reign and has worked wonders with very little money. WE have an amazing new stadium, and whilst I feel that 4th place and no trophies is probably the minimum we expect from a season, it has been achieved in a manner which is financially viable. I think that is commendable and Wenger deserves more respect for what he has done/ is doing at the club. If you want to support a club that throws money at players and sacks a manager at every dip in fortune I suggest you'd be happier supporting spurs!

I think it's not hard to see that the team has come on amazingly if you look at the form before and after xmas. How long will we keep having to hear Wenger talking about experience etc? Well the average age of our team is 23ish, so maybe some time but its obvious that they are! Look back at Song and Walcott and how much they have improved, and for trust in Wenger's transfer policy look at the performances of Nasri, Eduardo and Sagna in the previous couple of years

And Man Utd were too physically strong for us on Tues?!! Yes perhaps, or maybe a stroke of misfortune hit and Gibbs slipped over at the wrong time and our keeper misjudged a free kick which meant we were out after 11 mins. I think the team showed character to keep the score down further when i know personally I was broken in the stand. At least they didn't give up and collapse. When you realise that 2/3 of our so called supporters left early, what does it say of our fellow "supporters" character?!

Well this is a rather long first post but deary me, we have been unlucky in the Chelsea and Man Utd semi-finals. These are two games where goalkeeping errors and untimely slips have cost us dearly, yet it is set among one of our most promising period results wise for a long while. I do think that Wenger is not infallible, and I would like to see a decent centre half and defensive midfielder, and possibly a new striker in exchange for Adebayor. But we are not far away and i think (hope) that at least the Arshavin signing goes to show that we will pay out for classy experienced players, when they become available AND when the deal suits the club. And at the end of the day I trust Arsene knows more than us all and what he does choose to do will be correct. WHEN we do win a trophy it will be all the sweeter to have done it the Arsenal way

I have one word to say in response to your highlighted sentence.....BULLSHIT

Arsenal Football Club existed long before wenger came on the scene and will do so long after wenger, the board and you and me are gone. People talk about wenger like we had no history before he came which apart from being ridiculous also suggests that they are a new supporter or dont know their history

For the record George Graham put us back on the map after 18 seasons in the wilderness - his Arsenal team was the one that broke the scousers domestic monopoly and seen us win 1 european final and beaten in another. Yes his football wasnt as exilerating as wenger's teams but we were successful up to the last 2 seasons under him when we declined badly. It should also be pointed out that wenger's early success was built on the back 4 that GG built and hasnt been replaced since

Anyway I have drifted away from my previous point which is that we are not and should not be considered as Arsene FC and I know that when he goes my love of the club wont go with him. The one thing that shows up as being similar to the GG years is that after a successful spell GG's team's began to slide with too many average players and became a cup team - notice any similarities ? I loved GG as a manager but I also recognised that he had his day and needed to be replaced and someday it will dawn on you that the same will apply to wenger

By the way we were not fcuking unlucky in 2 cup semi's - we were fcuking dire at wembley, dire at old trafford and gone after 11 minutes at the grove tues night and the only misfortune we had in 270 minutes was 1 slip from gibbs cos other than that we were given a lesson

Post by **Chippy** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:19 am

Welcome Carey. You must tell us who your dealer is mate, I could do with looking at our team through the chemical haze.

One thing I have noticed throughout this debate is that the AK brigade say he is great and

Wenger's building something special again for us

and then go on to say stuff like this

I would like to see a decent centre half and defensive midfielder, and possibly a new striker in exchange for Adebayor.

This is exactly what those who have/are losing faith in Wenger are saying. We are where we are because of him and some weird egomaniacal theory of building a young team.

BTW we did not lose the 2 semis becuase we were unlucky but because

1 The squad is no where near strong enough
2 The squad is horribly unbalanced
3 The team selection has been eccentric
4 The tactics were naive
5 The substitutions bizarre etc

All of the above AW's fault.

Wenger is pure arsenal and he instils this love for our team into most of the players.

Eh? Hleb, Flamini, Ade, Ashley.....

If you had told me 2 years ago I would be in the Arsene must go camp I would have asked you for your dealer then, but he and we have seen our weaknesses and he has done F all about it, in fact we are much worse off than 2 years ago.

Percy Dalton · Post by **Percy Dalton** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:22 am

Chippy will you be changing you signature next season to something like the below...............

"Perhaps we gave the fans too much last season. If you eat sausages every day, sometimes it is difficult to come back to dog turds and manure."

Post by **flash gunner** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:22 am

Chippy wrote:Welcome Carey. You must tell us who your dealer is mate, I could do with looking at our team through the chemical haze.

One thing I have noticed throughout this debate is that the AK brigade say he is great and
Wenger's building something special again for us
and then go on to say stuff like this
I would like to see a decent centre half and defensive midfielder, and possibly a new striker in exchange for Adebayor.
This is exactly what those who have/are losing faith in Wenger are saying. We are where we are because of him and some weird egomaniacal theory of building a young team.

BTW we did not lose the 2 semis becuase we were unlucky but because

1 The squad is no where near strong enough
2 The squad is horribly unbalanced
3 The team selection has been eccentric
4 The tactics were naive
5 The substitutions bizarre etc

All of the above AW's fault.

Wenger is pure arsenal and he instils this love for our team into most of the players.
Eh? Hleb, Flamini, Ade, Ashley.....

If you had told me 2 years ago I would be in the Arsene must go camp I would have asked you for your dealer then, but he and we have seen our weaknesses and he has done F all about it, in fact we are much worse off than 2 years ago.

Spot on Chippy an Augie-esque post if you dont mind me saying

Totally agree mate

Post by **Chippy** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:32 am

flash gunner wrote: Spot on Chippy an Augie-esque post if you dont mind me saying Totally agree mate

A true compliment. And Percy, I haven't waited till next season. See below.

Percy Dalton · Post by **Percy Dalton** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:33 am

It seems much more apt Chippy, well done!

Irish Gooner · Post by **Irish Gooner** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:33 pm

Bump.

Rosie_titters · Post by **Rosie_titters** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:38 pm

yep this is a piss poor team - and we need at least 8 new signings to even challenge for the league

i can only think of about 6 players, who deserve to stay

Mrs Gus (Doris) · Post by **Mrs Gus (Doris)** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:42 pm

Chunky Monkey wrote:yep this is a piss poor team - and we need at least 8 new signings to even challenge for the league

i can only think of about 6 players, who deserve to stay

6....thats being kind Chunky... people are far too happy to put up with shit!!!!