Southampton match thread

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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LDB
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by LDB »

clockender1 wrote:
LDB wrote:
Its entirely possible that Wenger tells the players to "play their own game" in the dressing room but what clockender1 suggested is that they don't even receive basic coaching about team play which I find highly highly unlikely.
i might be wrong LDB (often am) but that is what it looks like to me.

i was told a few months back that AW NEVER coaches during games from the touchline, i doubted it but it is actually true.

watch the videos.
I know and I'm not disagreeing with any of that, nor with anything that armchair posted. But you do realise we have a training ground? :wink:

armchair
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by armchair »

I've seen player interviews where they've said Wenger doesn't study the opposition, watch the opponents on video, rather just tells the team to go and play.

Now whether or not they've been coached on how Wenger wants them to "go and play" is neither here nor there because every team and game is different (even different within games). And nowhere has this been proven more so than our last two games. One where we are given room and allowed to "play our game". The other where our midfield are closed down, not given room "to play our game" and the players are lost, cant find the space, pick a pass and resort trying to play long up to Theo and Pod.

Just like the vicious cycle you posted earlier. Sometimes it works then we meet a well organised team who keep the shape, we cant break them down and look awful. Tactics and proper instructions before and during games would undoubtedly help. But Wenger doesnt know how.

LDB
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by LDB »

armchair supporter wrote:I've seen player interviews where they've said Wenger doesn't study the opposition, watch the opponents on video, rather just tells the team to go and play.

Now whether or not they've been coached on how Wenger wants them to "go and play" is neither here nor there because every team and game is different (even different within games). And nowhere has this been proven more so than our last two games. One where we are given room and allowed to "play our game". The other where our midfield are closed down, not given room "to play our game" and the players are lost, cant find the space, pick a pass and resort trying to play long up to Theo and Pod.

Just like the vicious cycle you posted earlier. Sometimes it works then we meet a well organised team who keep the shape, we cant break them down and look awful. Tactics and proper instructions before and during games would undoubtedly help. But Wenger doesnt know how.
I agree with that :high5:

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northbank123
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by northbank123 »

Interesting to see what others think about it but here's my opinion on why we are so Jekyll and Hyde.

Against Newcastle and indeed the first four games or so of this season, I thought we were different tactically. Yes, it was the same 4-5-1, but we pressed the opposition at the back and in midfield and stopped them from playing the ball comfortably. On Saturday not only did goals 2 and 3 come from us robbing the ball in the opposition half using this tactic but it also injected a general pace into our attacking that created space and helped us prosper, even though we didn't click at all first two games in the final third. In particular Podolski has looked a completely different player when we've done this.

Today, and in many games since September, we gave the opposition so much time on the ball that we have made some woeful footballing teams look very accomplished in possession. This also means that when we win the ball back it's normally in a very defensive position which makes it so much harder for us to build a meaningful attack as most of their team are behind the ball.

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I Hate Hleb
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by I Hate Hleb »

clockender1 wrote:i think a decent manager (even benitez) would have this group of players second right now - city, chavs and the spuds are no better than us man for man except perhaps yaya...

shit manager.
If you genuinely think that then you've being smoking, drinking or inhaling something that in all likelihood is illegal and also harmful to one's health!! :oops: Probably all three!! :wink: :lol: I genuinely wish it was as simple as you say but alas it's not. The truth is that nearly all our defenders don't have a clue how to do their jobs or just don't have the ability befitting of a top side. Little Southampton, with hardly a premiership quality player in their side, were exposing the space time and again, be it the flanks or even through the middle, and the panic they caused our so called International defenders was embarrassing to see!! Thank fuck the saints didn't have any half decent forwards or we would have lost this game!!

The only one of our defenders worthy of being in any good side is Sagna, although I've never bought into the 'world class' tag that some gooners gave him because, although our best defender (which isn't saying much!!) too often his positioning is poor and even more often he just bombs forward without a care about the space he leaves behind and if we lose the ball, we're exposed. Unfortunately, even he appears to have gone backwards since returning from injury/the problems with his contract arose.

Although I agree that a better manager would get more out of this squad just by being more tactically astute and by making sure the players were better prepared, unfortunately the problem is too many of our current players - especially the defence - are just not good enough. :banghead: :banghead: :oops: :cry:

clockender1
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by clockender1 »

armchair supporter wrote: And nowhere has this been proven more so than our last two games. One where we are given room and allowed to "play our game". The other where our midfield are closed down, not given room "to play our game" and the players are lost, cant find the space, pick a pass and resort trying to play long up to Theo and Pod.

Just like the vicious cycle you posted earlier. Sometimes it works then we meet a well organised team who keep the shape, we cant break them down and look awful. Tactics and proper instructions before and during games would undoubtedly help. But Wenger doesnt know how.
spot on mate. my thoughts exactly.

Hlebby - watch TV's performances for Belgium where he is captain of a very good side who are well coached, and his performances with Ajax where he was superb.

any sane rational non-senile manager would have bought Vertonghen and played him alongside TV as a pair, but no our alzheimer affected manager put him off by offering him a midfield role.

i mean WTF is going on here.

tel
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by tel »

clockender1 wrote:
armchair supporter wrote: And nowhere has this been proven more so than our last two games. One where we are given room and allowed to "play our game". The other where our midfield are closed down, not given room "to play our game" and the players are lost, cant find the space, pick a pass and resort trying to play long up to Theo and Pod.

Just like the vicious cycle you posted earlier. Sometimes it works then we meet a well organised team who keep the shape, we cant break them down and look awful. Tactics and proper instructions before and during games would undoubtedly help. But Wenger doesnt know how.
spot on mate. my thoughts exactly.

Hlebby - watch TV's performances for Belgium where he is captain of a very good side who are well coached, and his performances with Ajax where he was superb.

any sane rational non-senile manager would have bought Vertonghen and played him alongside TV as a pair, but no our alzheimer affected manager put him off by offering him a midfield role.

i mean WTF is going on here.
I'm sorry I don't rate TV5 at all, i think fans confuse the goals he scores with the ones he should be keepung out.He was propped up by Kos last season yet this season he's been even worse. As for giving him the armband I've come to expect no less from Wenger. I would play Per and Kos together every week but when you've got no DM and 2 shit full backs I guess it doesn't matter anyway.

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northbank123
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by northbank123 »

I Hate Hleb wrote:
clockender1 wrote:i think a decent manager (even benitez) would have this group of players second right now - city, chavs and the spuds are no better than us man for man except perhaps yaya...

shit manager.
If you genuinely think that then you've being smoking, drinking or inhaling something that in all likelihood is illegal and also harmful to one's health!! :oops: Probably all three!! :wink: :lol: I genuinely wish it was as simple as you say but alas it's not. The truth is that nearly all our defenders don't have a clue how to do their jobs or just don't have the ability befitting of a top side. Little Southampton, with hardly a premiership quality player in their side, were exposing the space time and again, be it the flanks or even through the middle, and the panic they caused our so called International defenders was embarrassing to see!! Thank fuck the saints didn't have any half decent forwards or we would have lost this game!!

The only one of our defenders worthy of being in any good side is Sagna, although I've never bought into the 'world class' tag that some gooners gave him because, although our best defender (which isn't saying much!!) too often his positioning is poor and even more often he just bombs forward without a care about the space he leaves behind and if we lose the ball, we're exposed. Unfortunately, even he appears to have gone backwards since returning from injury/the problems with his contract arose.

Although I agree that a better manager would get more out of this squad just by being more tactically astute and by making sure the players were better prepared, unfortunately the problem is too many of our current players - especially the defence - are just not good enough. :banghead: :banghead: :oops: :cry:
City have four strikers who are twice as good as any of our options, and also imo the best centre half and centre mid in the league. Chelsea aren't a great side but can defend most of the time and would never be restricted attackingly as we have this season. The only one I agree with are Spurs, who despite all this AVB turning the corner bollocks are still shit and lack quality without Dembele and Bale, and Vertonghen too. They would kill to have Cazorla and Wilshere and on merit a few others would waltz into their side.

Its Up 4 Grabs Now
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by Its Up 4 Grabs Now »

On LDB/armchair/clockender's discussion my own opinion has always been it's both at the same time – yet another one of those ridiculous contradictions we've been littered with for years now.

Clearly we go out without any sort of tactical game plan or preparation whatsoever, and more often than not there's no real structure to our play at all either. And there's been various quotes saying Wenger likes the players to "figure things out for themselves" when they're struggling :roll: , individually or collectively. But at the same time I don't think it's a case of the players being told (or even allowed) to express themselves either. Invariably all of them get turned into Wengerball zombies sooner or later, drilled into submission to always look for the same pass or make the same off the ball run in any given situation. That's partly why our subs rarely make a difference; the incoming robot does pretty much exactly the same things as the guy he's replaced – best case scenario he just does it a bit more effectively. Spontaneity and any kind of maverick off-the-cuff flashes of individuality seem to be frowned upon. Everyone has to act out the same monotonous passages of play, hence why we're so predictable and so easily neutered by inferior opposition.

As a result we seem to be the least prepared, most disorganised team around whilst simultaneously also being the most rigid and most inhibited at the same time. As LDB said, a bit of creative license to "express themselves" would actually be a step in the right direction. At least then a moment of individual brilliance might pull something out the bag when we're as shite as we were today.

As I said we've been littered with a shitload of these sorts of contradictions in recent years. A club that harks on about unsustainable wage policies and refuses to pay anything close to the going rate to/for quality players but pays well above the going rate to a manager without a trophy in 4/5ths of a decade, a bald CEO with more hair on his head than accomplishments in football and countless shite squad players . A team that "attacks" with it's striker completely isolated yet somehow gets hit on the break with players caught out ahead of the ball when those moves break down as if there's some kind of Bermuda triangle anyone in an Arsenal shirt disappears into 6 or 7 times a game. And so on. We seem to be chock-full of these worst of both worlds paradoxes.

And then there's Gervinho.

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Herd
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by Herd »

As previously advised ,Sagna feels he has been insulted by the club with their ridiculous approach to contract renegotiation or rather lack of one .
The much vaunted massive pay rises for Ramsey and Jenkinson has made him feel like hes been kicked in the teeth and unwanted.
Notwithstanding his 60 k per week wage bill ,he doesn't even want to play another game for us !
It's a very sad end to his Arsenal playing days but believe me this fella is completely de-motivated .
Wouldn't surprise me if we sell him this month !

arseofacrow
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by arseofacrow »

Its Up 4 Grabs Now wrote:On LDB/armchair/clockender's discussion my own opinion has always been it's both at the same time – yet another one of those ridiculous contradictions we've been littered with for years now.

Clearly we go out without any sort of tactical game plan or preparation whatsoever, and more often than not there's no real structure to our play at all either. And there's been various quotes saying Wenger likes the players to "figure things out for themselves" when they're struggling :roll: , individually or collectively. But at the same time I don't think it's a case of the players being told (or even allowed) to express themselves either. Invariably all of them get turned into Wengerball zombies sooner or later, drilled into submission to always look for the same pass or make the same off the ball run in any given situation. That's partly why our subs rarely make a difference; the incoming robot does pretty much exactly the same things as the guy he's replaced – best case scenario he just does it a bit more effectively. Spontaneity and any kind of maverick off-the-cuff flashes of individuality seem to be frowned upon. Everyone has to act out the same monotonous passages of play, hence why we're so predictable and so easily neutered by inferior opposition.

As a result we seem to be the least prepared, most disorganised team around whilst simultaneously also being the most rigid and most inhibited at the same time. As LDB said, a bit of creative license to "express themselves" would actually be a step in the right direction. At least then a moment of individual brilliance might pull something out the bag when we're as shite as we were today.

As I said we've been littered with a shitload of these sorts of contradictions in recent years. A club that harks on about unsustainable wage policies and refuses to pay anything close to the going rate to/for quality players but pays well above the going rate to a manager without a trophy in 4/5ths of a decade, a bald CEO with more hair on his head than accomplishments in football and countless shite squad players . A team that "attacks" with it's striker completely isolated yet somehow gets hit on the break with players caught out ahead of the ball when those moves break down as if there's some kind of Bermuda triangle anyone in an Arsenal shirt disappears into 6 or 7 times a game. And so on. We seem to be chock-full of these worst of both worlds paradoxes.

And then there's Gervinho.
:lol:

Nicely summed up IU4GN. To simultaenously have little support for the front men and get caught on the break is a peculiar Arsenal trait. :? :shock:

Gervinho is a perculiar individual and I think sums up some of the problems with the current Arsenal. One of his first "moves" was to collect the ball on the left and without even looking/attempting something positive, was moving backwards with the intention of playing it back to the defence.

It's this kind of thing that is not about money and will essentially seperate us from Man Utd by the number of points that you see on your screen right now. Unfortunately, it is all about money/Wenger's hands are tied/Wenger's boys are tired.....and if Man Utd come back so many times it's because of a massive FA conspiracy :evil: :banghead: :x

Skooner
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by Skooner »

clockender1 wrote:btw - anyone go today ?

how did the away support react to the double subs and final whistle ?
To be honest it was pretty muted for the double substitution, thought there would be uproar but there were just a few isolated shouts of abuse but that was about it. Must admit I wasn't aware Rosicky was on the bench til after the game so didnt think we had any good options on the bench.

A little bit of booing at the final whistle. Half the fans around me were more intent on winding up the Saints fans than watching the match anyway.

A dallying Gus Caesar
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by A dallying Gus Caesar »

A very poor and somewhat predictable performance.

How on earth can our 'team' finish in the top four when we are patiently far weaker than Chelsea & The Spuds.

This is the year we miss out on the top four for sure. No RVP to save us this year.

markyp
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by markyp »

A dallying Gus Caesar wrote:A very poor and somewhat predictable performance.

How on earth can our 'team' finish in the top four when we are patiently far weaker than Chelsea & The Spuds.

This is the year we miss out on the top four for sure. No RVP to save us this year.
as much as it would sadden us to not be in the CL next year i think in the long term it would be the best thing for the club,sitting on ya arse counting the pennies has finally caught up with us,everton,spurs,wba,stoke,yes stoke are all as good as us now,its a fucking insult.hopefully a CL no show would rock the boat enough for a big shake up(some chance).personally i say fuck the virtual trophy and lets go for the big prize a place in the europa cup and a big kick in the balls for Wenker,the board and all the AKB'S although the brainwashed twats would still probably just say 'he needs more time' and ' we havent got any money'.mid table mediocrety for years to come is ours for the taking :banghead:

LeftfootlegendGooner
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Re: Southampton match thread

Post by LeftfootlegendGooner »

Herd wrote:As previously advised ,Sagna feels he has been insulted by the club with their ridiculous approach to contract renegotiation or rather lack of one .
The much vaunted massive pay rises for Ramsey and Jenkinson has made him feel like hes been kicked in the teeth and unwanted.
Notwithstanding his 60 k per week wage bill ,he doesn't even want to play another game for us !
It's a very sad end to his Arsenal playing days but believe me this fella is completely de-motivated .
Wouldn't surprise me if we sell him this month !

Really!!!!!

He feels he has been treated badly by the club and only on 60k a week, he's a fuckin professional football player not a sunday league one.
I don't believe any of that quite frankly, they go out there and do the best they can and as I have said many times sagna just aint that good.

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