THE WENGER THREAD

[Ikechukwu1]

Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.

Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day

17 different squads with fuck knows how many players over a period of 17 seasons. Only one manager though.
But yes, yes you're right its down to the players.

I think a patronising eye roll when someone suggests the performance of a team sport is ultimately down to the players is a tad harsh mate because ultimately it is. Yes the manager buys the players, trains them and sends them out to play under his instructions but it's still down to the discipline, talent and decisions made by the players.

We all know the manager has a huge role to play in a teams success but clearly so do the players.

I think we need to be more tolerant of people's views on this forum and stop taking a naturally dismissive view of quite reasonable comments and perhaps try and understand what they mean.
- you did the same to me last night. You criticised my comments so I replied with a better explanation that I thought would help. Your response to that was just rude

Sorry G88ner but I'm not having that. Yes the players are absolutely essential components but performance is ultimately down to the manager. Just to reiterate: tactics, motivation, fitness, man-management, mentality, even injuries and in-game management come from the top. That's why you hear so so many players talk about the importance of managers.

Apparently, anyone could win the Treble with Barca. Tata Martino took charge and won nothing, and he isn't a bad manager.
Look at Scousers. Getting dicked on by Stoke - Klopp takes over and the exact same squad destroys Chelski away and then Citeh by a combined score of 7-2

Players are essential but without a system, style, tactics and motivation and the key one here - Leadership - they're lost.

Wenger is a perfect example of what weak, spineless, insipid management does. He's for years loaded Arsenal squads with weak characters and surrounded himself with acolytes who won't challenge his bullshit philosophy. He's conditioned teams into thinking they're "tired" (in November FFS lol), whilst giving the message that Top 4 is success. Those celebrations at St James a perfect example - dream on if Pep, Ancelotti it Fergie ever let players crack open the champers for 4th.

You have players who've never achieved anything consistently claiming they "underestimate" the opposition. They did it against Monaco even though Arsenal have zero European pedigree. They then did it again in Zagreb. It happened again against Olympiakos. It will probably happen again this afternoon and you know it'll happen again and again. You're allowed to drop points in smaller games but it's about the manner you do it. If it happens because like eg Barca last night, you cruise into a 2-0 lead, you're far superior and take your eye off the ball...it happens.

But when it happens because you simply don't feel you need to bother turning up and put in the effort?

Wenger is the highest-paid employee at AFC. So no way will I ever be convinced it's ultimately down to the players. No way.

[g88ner]

Sorry G88ner but I'm not having that. Yes the players are absolutely essential components but performance is ultimately down to the manager. Just to reiterate: tactics, motivation, fitness, man-management, mentality, even injuries and in-game management come from the top. That's why you hear so so many players talk about the importance of managers.

Apparently, anyone could win the Treble with Barca. Tata Martino took charge and won nothing, and he isn't a bad manager.
Look at Scousers. Getting dicked on by Stoke - Klopp takes over and the exact same squad destroys Chelski away and then Citeh by a combined score of 7-2

Players are essential but without a system, style, tactics and motivation and the key one here - Leadership - they're lost.

Wenger is a perfect example of what weak, spineless, insipid management does. He's for years loaded Arsenal squads with weak characters and surrounded himself with acolytes who won't challenge his bullshit philosophy. He's conditioned teams into thinking they're "tired" (in November FFS lol), whilst giving the message that Top 4 is success. Those celebrations at St James a perfect example - dream on if Pep, Ancelotti it Fergie ever let players crack open the champers for 4th.

You have players who've never achieved anything consistently claiming they "underestimate" the opposition. They did it against Monaco even though Arsenal have zero European pedigree. They then did it again in Zagreb. It happened again against Olympiakos. It will probably happen again this afternoon and you know it'll happen again and again. You're allowed to drop points in smaller games but it's about the manner you do it. If it happens because like eg Barca last night, you cruise into a 2-0 lead, you're far superior and take your eye off the ball...it happens.

But when it happens because you simply don't feel you need to bother turning up and put in the effort?

Wenger is the highest-paid employee at AFC. So no way will I ever be convinced it's ultimately down to the players. No way.

I think we're in agreement but saying it in different ways.

You say the players are essential but performance is ultimately down to the manager.
I'm of the view that the manager is essential but performance is ultimately down to the players.

From my perspective, I'd prefer the Barcelona first team with a shite manager (lets say a regional manager from tesco's) than a pub team coached by Guardiola. I know that's extreme but you're ultimately constrained by the players you have at your disposal and good tactics, etc. will only go so far.

Question is, would you be more confident in Guardiola winning the CL with Arsenal within 2 years or Wenger winning the CL with Barca? - if I had to choose one, I'd back Wenger simply because Barcelona have better players and more pulling power to improve the team.

Which would you choose?

[Ikechukwu1]

I would choose Pep with us, no joke. On a tactical and motivational level, he would do exactly what was required. May sound churlish but put it this way: I saw Wenger take charge of CL squads featuring Bergkamp, Henry, Vieira, Pires, Campbell, Cole, Gilberto. Bergkamp was one of the best players in Europe. Pires was arguable the best left sided midfielder in Europe at the time. Cole was the best left full-back in Europe. Sol was one of the top 2/3 centre halves in Europe. Vieira was the best DCM in Europe alongside Makelele. Definitely the best box-to-box one. Henry was probably one of the 2 best players in Europe, over 4/5 years. Lehmann was a top goalie. Gilberto was a WC winner (who actually performed, I like shite like Mertesacker).
And do you know what?

In a CL where Monaco, Porto player out the final that year, and all quality teams (Real, Barca, Bayern, ManYoo) had been knocked out, Wenger was unable to progress beyond the QF, eliminated by Ranieri's dodgy Chelski team

Worse still with that same group of players, we saw Wenger fail against PSV, twice against Valencia, against Deportivo too.
Those teams should never, ever have been able to get close to Arsenal as player for player, Arsenal had about 5/6 of a World 11.
And yet he still failed miserably due to appalling coaching.

So yes, I'd take Pep at Arsenal scenario over Wenker at Barca.
You just know Wenkr would have an "accident" and they'd consistently under-prepare

[augie]

Sorry G88ner but I'm not having that. Yes the players are absolutely essential components but performance is ultimately down to the manager. Just to reiterate: tactics, motivation, fitness, man-management, mentality, even injuries and in-game management come from the top. That's why you hear so so many players talk about the importance of managers.

Apparently, anyone could win the Treble with Barca. Tata Martino took charge and won nothing, and he isn't a bad manager.
Look at Scousers. Getting dicked on by Stoke - Klopp takes over and the exact same squad destroys Chelski away and then Citeh by a combined score of 7-2

Players are essential but without a system, style, tactics and motivation and the key one here - Leadership - they're lost.

Wenger is a perfect example of what weak, spineless, insipid management does. He's for years loaded Arsenal squads with weak characters and surrounded himself with acolytes who won't challenge his bullshit philosophy. He's conditioned teams into thinking they're "tired" (in November FFS lol), whilst giving the message that Top 4 is success. Those celebrations at St James a perfect example - dream on if Pep, Ancelotti it Fergie ever let players crack open the champers for 4th.

You have players who've never achieved anything consistently claiming they "underestimate" the opposition. They did it against Monaco even though Arsenal have zero European pedigree. They then did it again in Zagreb. It happened again against Olympiakos. It will probably happen again this afternoon and you know it'll happen again and again. You're allowed to drop points in smaller games but it's about the manner you do it. If it happens because like eg Barca last night, you cruise into a 2-0 lead, you're far superior and take your eye off the ball...it happens.

But when it happens because you simply don't feel you need to bother turning up and put in the effort?

Wenger is the highest-paid employee at AFC. So no way will I ever be convinced it's ultimately down to the players. No way.

I think we're in agreement but saying it in different ways.

You say the players are essential but performance is ultimately down to the manager.
I'm of the view that the manager is essential but performance is ultimately down to the players.

From my perspective, I'd prefer the Barcelona first team with a shite manager (lets say a regional manager from tesco's) than a pub team coached by Guardiola. I know that's extreme but you're ultimately constrained by the players you have at your disposal and good tactics, etc. will only go so far.

Question is, would you be more confident in Guardiola winning the CL with Arsenal within 2 years or Wenger winning the CL with Barca? - if I had to choose one, I'd back Wenger simply because Barcelona have better players and more pulling power to improve the team.

Which would you choose?

I would take the Tesco's manager managing Arsenal and winning the champs league within two years over le cock managing barca and winning it

[armchair]

Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.

Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day

17 different squads with fuck knows how many players over a period of 17 seasons. Only one manager though.
But yes, yes you're right its down to the players.

I think a patronising eye roll when someone suggests the performance of a team sport is ultimately down to the players is a tad harsh mate because ultimately it is. Yes the manager buys the players, trains them and sends them out to play under his instructions but it's still down to the discipline, talent and decisions made by the players.

We all know the manager has a huge role to play in a teams success but clearly so do the players.

I think we need to be more tolerant of people's views on this forum and stop taking a naturally dismissive view of quite reasonable comments and perhaps try and understand what they mean.
- you did the same to me last night. You criticised my comments so I replied with a better explanation that I thought would help. Your response to that was just rude

Wtf? You been smokin some of Hlebbys weed or summat? He says my post is "bollox" then you pull ME up for a "patronising eye roll" and I should be "more tolerant of peoples views" ?

Yes you posted a few rambling efforts last night but they were pretty stupid and nothing to do with the point so I treated them with the contempt they deserved.
I think you need to stand in the corner and think about what you've done.

[g88ner]

Yes you posted a few rambling efforts last night but they were pretty stupid

They weren't stupid.

[Redarmy]

Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.

Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day

17 different squads with fuck knows how many players over a period of 17 seasons. Only one manager though.
But yes, yes you're right its down to the players.

I think a patronising eye roll when someone suggests the performance of a team sport is ultimately down to the players is a tad harsh mate because ultimately it is. Yes the manager buys the players, trains them and sends them out to play under his instructions but it's still down to the discipline, talent and decisions made by the players.

We all know the manager has a huge role to play in a teams success but clearly so do the players.

I think we need to be more tolerant of people's views on this forum and stop taking a naturally dismissive view of quite reasonable comments and perhaps try and understand what they mean.
- you did the same to me last night. You criticised my comments so I replied with a better explanation that I thought would help. Your response to that was just rude

Sorry G88ner but I'm not having that. Yes the players are absolutely essential components but performance is ultimately down to the manager. Just to reiterate: tactics, motivation, fitness, man-management, mentality, even injuries and in-game management come from the top. That's why you hear so so many players talk about the importance of managers.

Apparently, anyone could win the Treble with Barca. Tata Martino took charge and won nothing, and he isn't a bad manager.
Look at Scousers. Getting dicked on by Stoke - Klopp takes over and the exact same squad destroys Chelski away and then Citeh by a combined score of 7-2

Players are essential but without a system, style, tactics and motivation and the key one here - Leadership - they're lost.

Wenger is a perfect example of what weak, spineless, insipid management does. He's for years loaded Arsenal squads with weak characters and surrounded himself with acolytes who won't challenge his bullshit philosophy. He's conditioned teams into thinking they're "tired" (in November FFS lol), whilst giving the message that Top 4 is success. Those celebrations at St James a perfect example - dream on if Pep, Ancelotti it Fergie ever let players crack open the champers for 4th.

You have players who've never achieved anything consistently claiming they "underestimate" the opposition. They did it against Monaco even though Arsenal have zero European pedigree. They then did it again in Zagreb. It happened again against Olympiakos. It will probably happen again this afternoon and you know it'll happen again and again. You're allowed to drop points in smaller games but it's about the manner you do it. If it happens because like eg Barca last night, you cruise into a 2-0 lead, you're far superior and take your eye off the ball...it happens.

But when it happens because you simply don't feel you need to bother turning up and put in the effort?

Wenger is the highest-paid employee at AFC. So no way will I ever be convinced it's ultimately down to the players. No way.

agreed anyway Dead man, by YOUR LOGIC that managers are responsible and take the credit.....THE ACHIEVEMENT OF 49 Games unbeaten and winning the Double makes Wenger probably in the top 3 managers of the premiership in recent years

[Redarmy]

Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.

Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day

17 different squads with fuck knows how many players over a period of 17 seasons. Only one manager though.
But yes, yes you're right its down to the players.

I think a patronising eye roll when someone suggests the performance of a team sport is ultimately down to the players is a tad harsh mate because ultimately it is. Yes the manager buys the players, trains them and sends them out to play under his instructions but it's still down to the discipline, talent and decisions made by the players.

We all know the manager has a huge role to play in a teams success but clearly so do the players.

I think we need to be more tolerant of people's views on this forum and stop taking a naturally dismissive view of quite reasonable comments and perhaps try and understand what they mean.
- you did the same to me last night. You criticised my comments so I replied with a better explanation that I thought would help. Your response to that was just rude

Wtf? You been smokin some of Hlebbys weed or summat? He says my post is "bollox" then you pull ME up for a "patronising eye roll" and I should be "more tolerant of peoples views" ?

Yes you posted a few rambling efforts last night but they were pretty stupid and nothing to do with the point so I treated them with the contempt they deserved.
I think you need to stand in the corner and think about what you've done.

Could not give a Fuck dead man, your logic is flawed and you only see things with one eye

[Redarmy]

Sorry G88ner but I'm not having that. Yes the players are absolutely essential components but performance is ultimately down to the manager. Just to reiterate: tactics, motivation, fitness, man-management, mentality, even injuries and in-game management come from the top. That's why you hear so so many players talk about the importance of managers.

Apparently, anyone could win the Treble with Barca. Tata Martino took charge and won nothing, and he isn't a bad manager.
Look at Scousers. Getting dicked on by Stoke - Klopp takes over and the exact same squad destroys Chelski away and then Citeh by a combined score of 7-2

Players are essential but without a system, style, tactics and motivation and the key one here - Leadership - they're lost.

Wenger is a perfect example of what weak, spineless, insipid management does. He's for years loaded Arsenal squads with weak characters and surrounded himself with acolytes who won't challenge his bullshit philosophy. He's conditioned teams into thinking they're "tired" (in November FFS lol), whilst giving the message that Top 4 is success. Those celebrations at St James a perfect example - dream on if Pep, Ancelotti it Fergie ever let players crack open the champers for 4th.

You have players who've never achieved anything consistently claiming they "underestimate" the opposition. They did it against Monaco even though Arsenal have zero European pedigree. They then did it again in Zagreb. It happened again against Olympiakos. It will probably happen again this afternoon and you know it'll happen again and again. You're allowed to drop points in smaller games but it's about the manner you do it. If it happens because like eg Barca last night, you cruise into a 2-0 lead, you're far superior and take your eye off the ball...it happens.

But when it happens because you simply don't feel you need to bother turning up and put in the effort?

Wenger is the highest-paid employee at AFC. So no way will I ever be convinced it's ultimately down to the players. No way.

I think we're in agreement but saying it in different ways.

You say the players are essential but performance is ultimately down to the manager.
I'm of the view that the manager is essential but performance is ultimately down to the players.

From my perspective, I'd prefer the Barcelona first team with a shite manager (lets say a regional manager from tesco's) than a pub team coached by Guardiola. I know that's extreme but you're ultimately constrained by the players you have at your disposal and good tactics, etc. will only go so far.

Question is, would you be more confident in Guardiola winning the CL with Arsenal within 2 years or Wenger winning the CL with Barca? - if I had to choose one, I'd back Wenger simply because Barcelona have better players and more pulling power to improve the team.

Which would you choose?

I would take the Tesco's manager managing Arsenal and winning the champs league within two years over le cock managing barca and winning it

FOR FUCKS sake they won't and CANNOT win the Champions league ...end of

[Redarmy]

Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.

Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day

17 different squads with fuck knows how many players over a period of 17 seasons. Only one manager though.
But yes, yes you're right its down to the players.

If it's "all about the players" why bother even having a manager then?
Oh. Thought not.

So on that logic Wenger is one of the great managers in the premiership.....

Don't fucking tell me anyone told Adams, Dixon Winterburn and Bould what to do let alone Wrighty.....

[g88ner]

I'd take Pep at Arsenal scenario over Wenker at Barca.
You just know Wenkr would have an "accident" and they'd consistently under-prepare

Fair point. He'd probably rest Messi for the CL final to prove his players can win it without him

I would take the Tesco's manager managing Arsenal and winning the champs league within two years over le cock managing barca and winning it

To be fair, I'd take the Tesco manager too.

[armchair]

agreed anyway Dead man, by YOUR LOGIC that managers are responsible and take the credit.....THE ACHIEVEMENT OF 49 Games unbeaten and winning the Double makes Wenger probably in the top 3 managers of the premiership in recent years

Recent? Thats 12 seasons ago mate. Of course Wenger gets the credit for the unbeaten season. Just like how he gets the credit for failing 17 times in the CL. What is so difficult for you and g88ner to understand about that?

Btw, whats with calling people deadman? g88ner doesnt seem too bothered by it though. But use a "patronising eye roll" and you're in diffs..........

[Redarmy]

agreed anyway Dead man, by YOUR LOGIC that managers are responsible and take the credit.....THE ACHIEVEMENT OF 49 Games unbeaten and winning the Double makes Wenger probably in the top 3 managers of the premiership in recent years

Recent? Thats 12 seasons ago mate. Of course Wenger gets the credit for the unbeaten season. Just like how he gets the credit for failing 17 times in the CL. What is so difficult for you and g88ner to understand about that?

Btw, whats with calling people deadman? g88ner doesnt seem too bothered by it though. But use a "patronising eye roll" and you're in diffs..........

OK more FA cups than anyone else....thats more recent....so he a marvellous manager now is he


Flawed LOGIC, have another think about it and come back

[Redarmy]

agreed anyway Dead man, by YOUR LOGIC that managers are responsible and take the credit.....THE ACHIEVEMENT OF 49 Games unbeaten and winning the Double makes Wenger probably in the top 3 managers of the premiership in recent years

Recent? Thats 12 seasons ago mate. Of course Wenger gets the credit for the unbeaten season. Just like how he gets the credit for failing 17 times in the CL. What is so difficult for you and g88ner to understand about that?

Btw, whats with calling people deadman? g88ner doesnt seem too bothered by it though. But use a "patronising eye roll" and you're in diffs..........

OK more FA cups than anyone else....thats more recent....so he a marvellous manager now is he

Flawed LOGIC, have another think about it and come back

Forget about the champions league We cannot win that, against Bayern, Barcelona etc....WE CANNOT ATTRACT the players to compete yes we got the money but no ambition

[Redarmy]

OK keeping it simple, if Arsenal managed to win the Premiership this year, would it be mainly down to him?