THE WENGER THREAD

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

I am out of the hot tub and cannot believe how weak your arguments are guys, at first I thought the wine had got to me what with being hot and the blood pumping faster

OK I'm going to ignore most of you because clearly you missed as much school as I did but didn't have the same IQ

NB123 (even your avatar alludes to some sort of mathematical understanding), any top player will cost in excess of 40 million, plus a wage of, lets say 150,00 a week (rooney is on 300,000 or am I being unreasonable again ) so thon a 4 year contract that's 71,200,000 pounds per player (that's 3 quarters of our yearly stadium income per player).

Now that is a very conservative estimate of a TOP player, how much would Benzema cost (50 million?) and what would he want a week (200,000 at least), so that's 91,600,000.

Now I am giving you guys roughly a 60 million deficit when comparing to de maria, yet we can only realistically buy one (by some estimates) or two top players.

Now you can argue about other players being sold off to make way and free up wages but we still need to replace these players and still need back up so they are still an expenditure unless of course we can make it through the season with 16 players.

That's a good post but on a separate note I'm trawling through Spotify and just found cozy powells dance with the devil, nearly broke the coffee table doing air drumming
As per the list of players that icatchagoogoo listed, tbh I only looked very briefly but in my defence you could list a thousand players on here that have succeeded but that's hindsight and if you all have that then maybe you can give me the lottery numbers

Firstly, I said about ONE expensive signing directly replacing ONE squad player - not about flogging off various squad players/deadwood (which we all know we can do) or completely restructuring our squad to balance the books. As an example if we signed a quality striker on £160k/w in place of Walcott who is a squad player, you wouldn't need to come up with some ridiculous calculations about spreading his wages across 4 or 5 years because the increase in our wage bill would be a modest £20k/w. We overpay our squad players to such a ridiculous extent that actually we could replace a lot of average players with much much better players with negligible difference to our wage bill.

Secondly, it is just misleading to include wages spread across four or five years in the cost of signing a player, because that is not the benchmark anybody uses. Wages are of course a relevant consideration but if you are going to put it into context Arsenal's turnover over the next four years will probably be about £1.3bn - suddenly £70m-odd all in for a class player throughout that period (around 5% of our revenue) doesn't seem so ridiculous. Likewise I don't remember you saying about Walcott being our £30m summer signing, even though that's the rough cost of his wages for the next four years.

Ultimately you can present statistics to support whichever argument you want to run. The numbers we are talking about in football these days are sheer silliness but it's all about relativity. At the end of the day we can afford to buy these sorts of players and if we don't we aren't going to compete with the best. I do agree that we're not going to be able to buy more than two players at that sort of price a season (and not two players every single season) - but you also have to consider the resources we would have available if we stopped pissing away money on the false economy of mediocrity.

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

Don't know wtf happened there

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

I am out of the hot tub and cannot believe how weak your arguments are guys, at first I thought the wine had got to me what with being hot and the blood pumping faster

OK I'm going to ignore most of you because clearly you missed as much school as I did but didn't have the same IQ

NB123 (even your avatar alludes to some sort of mathematical understanding), any top player will cost in excess of 40 million, plus a wage of, lets say 150,00 a week (rooney is on 300,000 or am I being unreasonable again ) so thon a 4 year contract that's 71,200,000 pounds per player (that's 3 quarters of our yearly stadium income per player).

Now that is a very conservative estimate of a TOP player, how much would Benzema cost (50 million?) and what would he want a week (200,000 at least), so that's 91,600,000.

Now I am giving you guys roughly a 60 million deficit when comparing to de maria, yet we can only realistically buy one (by some estimates) or two top players.

Now you can argue about other players being sold off to make way and free up wages but we still need to replace these players and still need back up so they are still an expenditure unless of course we can make it through the season with 16 players.

As per the list of players that icatchagoogoo listed, tbh I only looked very briefly but in my defence you could list a thousand players on here that have succeeded but that's hindsight and if you all have that then maybe you can give me the lottery numbers

Firstly, I said about ONE expensive signing directly replacing ONE squad player - not about flogging off various squad players/deadwood (which we all know we can do) or completely restructuring our squad to balance the books. As an example if we signed a quality striker on £160k/w in place of Walcott who is a squad player, you wouldn't need to come up with some ridiculous calculations about spreading his wages across 4 or 5 years because the increase in our wage bill would be a modest £20k/w. We overpay our squad players to such a ridiculous extent that actually we could replace a lot of average players with much much better players with negligible difference to our wage bill.

Secondly, it is just misleading to include wages spread across four or five years in the cost of signing a player, because that is not the benchmark anybody uses. Wages are of course a relevant consideration but if you are going to put it into context Arsenal's turnover over the next four years will probably be about £1.3bn - suddenly £70m-odd all in for a class player throughout that period (around 5% of our revenue) doesn't seem so ridiculous. Likewise I don't remember you saying about Walcott being our £30m summer signing, even though that's the rough cost of his wages for the next four years.

Ultimately you can present statistics to support whichever argument you want to run. The numbers we are talking about in football these days are sheer silliness but it's all about relativity. At the end of the day we can afford to buy these sorts of players and if we don't we aren't going to compete with the best. I do agree that we're not going to be able to buy more than two players at that sort of price a season (and not two players every single season) - but you also have to consider the resources we would have available if we stopped pissing away money on the false economy of mediocrity.

That's a good post but on a separate note I'm trawling through Spotify and just found cozy powells dance with the devil, nearly broke the coffee table doing air drumming

[Ikechukwu1]

I have to add this guys.....

I'm not winding anyone up here, what I am asking is "how would you spend the money and how can we overcome these super rich clubs?"

To me football is not the same anymore, these players are on astronomical wages and out of touch with the common guy (fuck me they are out of touch with the middle class guy), now I grew up a common guy and first went to watch The Arsenal in 1979 with a supporters club with a youth football team and I felt a part of it.

Likewise when I first took my son to Highbury he felt the same, obviously we have since been to the Emirates and thoroughly enjoy it but it's not the same.

This is a whole new game and I'm afraid most of you guys aren't accepting it, arsenal in the past have been the richest club (the richest club in the world in the 1930's) but we aren't anymore, in fact we are quite a way down and that is why we have to reevaluate our expectations.

Going on from here (and I have had a shit load of wine now) I can't believe the reaction (could have said abuse but am being generous) I have had, I have never wummed you lot, in fact I have taken hours of my time to replenish you cunnts with a shit load of jokes, (yeah yeah a shit load of shit jokes). Got to say I'm disappointed.

To summarise, I fukin know Wenger needs to go BUT who the fuck with, is Stan going to bankroll the next manager and who should we buy in now to make the difference that we can realistically afford.

You can't have it all your way on here.....

AKB Maths in action!
So errrr....a player's value is factored in as wages influence - even though the club clearly stated £70m was available for transfers excluding wages. Wow the Arsenal wage bill is just 2m less than Chelski's but yes, how on earth do we compete with these super-wealthy clubs eh?

I suppose the alternative question is...
Considering it's impossible to compete with clubs richer than you, how have Arsenal been battered in Europe by Bayern, who have a lower wage bill?
How have Bayern won the CL more than twice in the last decade with a lower wage bill?
How did Klopp win back to back league titles with a wage bill lower than Norwich?
How comes the richest club doesn't win the CL each year?
How oh earth can the Spuds be anywhere near us in the league despite spending 50% less on wages?

Diego Simeone seems to know how to be successful without having fuss anywhere near a Liverpool or West Ham FFS.
Yet, "Genius" Arsene can only succeed against the rich clubs by having as much money as them basically? Interesting.

And here I was thinking managers line Graham, like Hitzfeld, like Mourinho (see Porto and Inter), like Fergie etc were all outstanding managers due to their ability to reinvent themselves, scout better, use evolving tactics etc etc....naaah sod that you can only compete with bags of cash! And yes, poor old Arsenal can't possibly be expected to measure up with that £200m wage bill


So AKB dictionary bingo

AW has 200m cash in the bank = errrr...it's not actually much LOL
AW has 200m wage bill = how can he compete

ROFL

[beck]

Looking at the wreckage of the last 10 years one starts to wonder now if Wenger EVER really coached the players. Did he really "create" Henry, Viera, Bergkamp, Pires, Keown, Adams, Cole....etc,etc or were they just a magical,talented bunch who went out and played as they knew how to play. Maybe it wouldn't of mattered if he was there or not?? And for every Henry, there have been half a dozen, Kallstroms, Sanogo's, Bendtners and the like. Very, very occasionally we get a gem and all his supporters rave but the horrendous flops are never mentioned. And how many real journeyman are still on the books on obscene wages?? He buys this shit then sticks with them trying to convince everybody they're gold because if he admits they're crap, what does that make him?? Is there a man anywhere in the world on such good money who is so unaccountable???

No I'm not having this revisionism
He was that good
He took a defence that was starting to fail under graham( even rioch steadied the ship in that respect) and gave them a new lease of life
He built the side that went unbeaten but it was towards the end of the 07/08 season where hubris took over and he became Canute like in his failure to adapt with what was needed
He deserved a period to put that right after what he had achieved at the start but to my mind that has gone on over 4 years too long and he should hav been sacked after failing to prepare properly for the 11/12 season after a poor finish to 10/11
To my mind ancelotti should have been installed when he was out of work and reluctant to leave london
But I won't have this slating of everything wenger
He was the right man for the job for over 11 years he just ain't now

And no I am not having that either - he took over THE best back 4 in world football at that time (the Milan defence came close but were not as good imo) and he also had the best player ever to play for our club to build a team around. He added some real stars (PV4, petit, overmars and anelka) but it shouldn't be forgotten who turned us into a double winning side in 98 - after a dismal defeat against Blackburn, it was TA6 and the back 4 that called the meeting and laid things on the line for our centre midfielders and Bergkamp, on what they needed to do in order for us to win the league. Even back in his first successful season, it was his players that were making the key changes to our tactics

I love george what he did for this club as both a player and manager but that 94/95 season is the worst home season I have ever seen and I was a season ticket holder during those 2 dodgy seasons in the mid 70,s
Keown was an accident waiting to happen in the 3-0 defeat at liverpool when fowler got the 5 min hat trick
George made some shocking substitutions in the game v Newcastle at home we conceded 3 could have been 7
Leeds home dreadfull game bould and keown all over the show conceded 3
Qpr at home only one team gonna win after Jensen goal not us though another 3 conceded at home
3 more at Sheffield Wednesday
We never won a home league game in George's last 4 months

[Ikechukwu1]

I have to add this guys.....

I'm not winding anyone up here, what I am asking is "how would you spend the money and how can we overcome these super rich clubs?"

To me football is not the same anymore, these players are on astronomical wages and out of touch with the common guy (fuck me they are out of touch with the middle class guy), now I grew up a common guy and first went to watch The Arsenal in 1979 with a supporters club with a youth football team and I felt a part of it.

Likewise when I first took my son to Highbury he felt the same, obviously we have since been to the Emirates and thoroughly enjoy it but it's not the same.

This is a whole new game and I'm afraid most of you guys aren't accepting it, arsenal in the past have been the richest club (the richest club in the world in the 1930's) but we aren't anymore, in fact we are quite a way down and that is why we have to reevaluate our expectations.

Going on from here (and I have had a shit load of wine now) I can't believe the reaction (could have said abuse but am being generous) I have had, I have never wummed you lot, in fact I have taken hours of my time to replenish you cunnts with a shit load of jokes, (yeah yeah a shit load of shit jokes). Got to say I'm disappointed.

To summarise, I fukin know Wenger needs to go BUT who the fuck with, is Stan going to bankroll the next manager and who should we buy in now to make the difference that we can realistically afford.

You can't have it all your way on here.....

Simeone earns 4m a year.
Klopp is on 7m a year.
Ancelotti is on 8m a year.

Pep Guardiola is hanging about....
But yes: "Who would you replace him with"


Answe: anyone that ain't senile enough to start Yaya Sanogo in a CL knockout against the reigning European champs, anyone that has modern training methods, anyone who can scout quality players, anyone with the brain and ambition to use the transfer window, etc. etc....

[Ikechukwu1]

Looking at the wreckage of the last 10 years one starts to wonder now if Wenger EVER really coached the players. Did he really "create" Henry, Viera, Bergkamp, Pires, Keown, Adams, Cole....etc,etc or were they just a magical,talented bunch who went out and played as they knew how to play. Maybe it wouldn't of mattered if he was there or not?? And for every Henry, there have been half a dozen, Kallstroms, Sanogo's, Bendtners and the like. Very, very occasionally we get a gem and all his supporters rave but the horrendous flops are never mentioned. And how many real journeyman are still on the books on obscene wages?? He buys this shit then sticks with them trying to convince everybody they're gold because if he admits they're crap, what does that make him?? Is there a man anywhere in the world on such good money who is so unaccountable???

No I'm not having this revisionism
He was that good
He took a defence that was starting to fail under graham( even rioch steadied the ship in that respect) and gave them a new lease of life
He built the side that went unbeaten but it was towards the end of the 07/08 season where hubris took over and he became Canute like in his failure to adapt with what was needed
He deserved a period to put that right after what he had achieved at the start but to my mind that has gone on over 4 years too long and he should hav been sacked after failing to prepare properly for the 11/12 season after a poor finish to 10/11
To my mind ancelotti should have been installed when he was out of work and reluctant to leave london
But I won't have this slating of everything wenger
He was the right man for the job for over 11 years he just ain't now

And no I am not having that either - he took over THE best back 4 in world football at that time (the Milan defence came close but were not as good imo) and he also had the best player ever to play for our club to build a team around. He added some real stars (PV4, petit, overmars and anelka) but it shouldn't be forgotten who turned us into a double winning side in 98 - after a dismal defeat against Blackburn, it was TA6 and the back 4 that called the meeting and laid things on the line for our centre midfielders and Bergkamp, on what they needed to do in order for us to win the league. Even back in his first successful season, it was his players that were making the key changes to our tactics

I love george what he did for this club as both a player and manager but that 94/95 season is the worst home season I have ever seen and I was a season ticket holder during those 2 dodgy seasons in the mid 70,s
Keown was an accident waiting to happen in the 3-0 defeat at liverpool when fowler got the 5 min hat trick
George made some shocking substitutions in the game v Newcastle at home we conceded 3 could have been 7
Leeds home dreadfull game bould and keown all over the show conceded 3
Qpr at home only one team gonna win after Jensen goal not us though another 3 conceded at home
3 more at Sheffield Wednesday
We never won a home league game in George's last 4 months

Say what you like about GG, but there is no way on this earth he manages the following:

An 8-2 defeat to ANYBODY
A 6-0 defeat, a 5-1 defeat, a 6-3 all in the SAME season
Regular batterings, and I mean hammerings in Europe - i do recall GG managing a team of underdogs to a European trophy against the might of Zola, Asprilla and Brolin. Funny that, don't recall bullshit excuses about "not being able to compete" - GG sent them out on that pitch with a tactical plan, trophy bagged.
Easy question: how many European trophies Wenger got n his 18 years? Ok let's say in his 30 years? Oh you said NONE?
Ok.

[beck]

Looking at the wreckage of the last 10 years one starts to wonder now if Wenger EVER really coached the players. Did he really "create" Henry, Viera, Bergkamp, Pires, Keown, Adams, Cole....etc,etc or were they just a magical,talented bunch who went out and played as they knew how to play. Maybe it wouldn't of mattered if he was there or not?? And for every Henry, there have been half a dozen, Kallstroms, Sanogo's, Bendtners and the like. Very, very occasionally we get a gem and all his supporters rave but the horrendous flops are never mentioned. And how many real journeyman are still on the books on obscene wages?? He buys this shit then sticks with them trying to convince everybody they're gold because if he admits they're crap, what does that make him?? Is there a man anywhere in the world on such good money who is so unaccountable???

No I'm not having this revisionism
He was that good
He took a defence that was starting to fail under graham( even rioch steadied the ship in that respect) and gave them a new lease of life
He built the side that went unbeaten but it was towards the end of the 07/08 season where hubris took over and he became Canute like in his failure to adapt with what was needed
He deserved a period to put that right after what he had achieved at the start but to my mind that has gone on over 4 years too long and he should hav been sacked after failing to prepare properly for the 11/12 season after a poor finish to 10/11
To my mind ancelotti should have been installed when he was out of work and reluctant to leave london
But I won't have this slating of everything wenger
He was the right man for the job for over 11 years he just ain't now

And no I am not having that either - he took over THE best back 4 in world football at that time (the Milan defence came close but were not as good imo) and he also had the best player ever to play for our club to build a team around. He added some real stars (PV4, petit, overmars and anelka) but it shouldn't be forgotten who turned us into a double winning side in 98 - after a dismal defeat against Blackburn, it was TA6 and the back 4 that called the meeting and laid things on the line for our centre midfielders and Bergkamp, on what they needed to do in order for us to win the league. Even back in his first successful season, it was his players that were making the key changes to our tactics

I love george what he did for this club as both a player and manager but that 94/95 season is the worst home season I have ever seen and I was a season ticket holder during those 2 dodgy seasons in the mid 70,s
Keown was an accident waiting to happen in the 3-0 defeat at liverpool when fowler got the 5 min hat trick
George made some shocking substitutions in the game v Newcastle at home we conceded 3 could have been 7
Leeds home dreadfull game bould and keown all over the show conceded 3
Qpr at home only one team gonna win after Jensen goal not us though another 3 conceded at home
3 more at Sheffield Wednesday
We never won a home league game in George's last 4 months

Say what you like about GG, but there is no way on this earth he manages the following:

An 8-2 defeat to ANYBODY
A 6-0 defeat, a 5-1 defeat, a 6-3 all in the SAME season
Regular batterings, and I mean hammerings in Europe - i do recall GG managing a team of underdogs to a European trophy against the might of Zola, Asprilla and Brolin. Funny that, don't recall bullshit excuses about "not being able to compete" - GG sent them out on that pitch with a tactical plan, trophy bagged.
Easy question: how many European trophies Wenger got n his 18 years? Ok let's say in his 30 years? Oh you said NONE?
Ok.

No argument from me
George learnt from his mistakes in a way wenger refuses to
The point was with regards revisionism to take away wengers achievements
Just because he is not the right man now doesn't mean to say he wasn't a very good manager then

[augie]

Destiny awaits chaps......

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... nc-7144574

I can see it all now.....blanc > manure, wenker > psg, pep > The Arsenal

[Chippy]

Seems like you all had some fun last night. Good discussion. However please drop the personal abuse. Some of you (know who you are) are supposed to have blocked each other!

[Blade]

Benik Afobe

So obvious Q..any benefit to club if he goes for 10mil?

Or we are suckers for 'frugal clause' viz Oxlade..

[GoonerMuzz]

From the outside looking in I think one of Wenger's major failings is his need to be involved in all aspects of the club.

I genuinely believe if he stuck to managing the first team and allowed others to properly manage the youth team and academy, let a CEO do the player contracts and negotiations and allowed his scouts and coaches a greater deal of latitude you'd see a much different club.

I'm not sure he is actually an egomaniac but he very much reminds me of a micro-manager who has to feel like he has complete control over things and can't trust others to get on with their jobs and i'll be honest it appears it is way to much for him.

For me it is no coincidence that we were more successful when we had DD at the top and other more prominent back room staff.

[SteveO 35]

Ike's on fire again

ONE IKECHUCKWU......THERE'S ONLY ONE IKECHUCKWU

[mcdowell42]

Ike's on fire again

ONE IKECHUCKWU......THERE'S ONLY ONE IKECHUCKWU

[SteveO 35]

Ike's on fire again

ONE IKECHUCKWU......THERE'S ONLY ONE IKECHUCKWU

Sorry McD

Its just that he reminds me of someone I once knew