THE WENGER THREAD

[Sean]

There's no question that George was just as much of a dictator as TOF, but he wouldn't have tolerated any of the shit that TOF does. He always tried to win the league and when he didn't, he'd usually win us a trophy, despite the poor football in his later seasons. He also built and coached the back five from scratch (and did TOF a massive fucking favour in the process).

The only Arsenal manager to win the Cup Winners Cup and the League Cup

And when Arsenal were horribly exposed by Benfica in the European Cup ("naive", you might say ), George realised that he needed a new tactical blueprint to win in Europe (strong defence, packed midfield, lone striker, counter-attacks and setpieces), not unlike the method used by Chelsea in 2012. So basically it took George one failed season to work out what was needed to win a European trophy. Wenger hasn't learned what it takes in EIGHTEEN seasons.

You're right. Unfortunately this was also the turning point to the 'Boring Boring Arsenal' of 1991-95 that GG's entire reign is tarred with.

Still, we won more trophies

To be fair - he was! 1992-93.

True enough

We also won a cup double that year - Finishing 10th means fuck all; none of that VT shite in those days

To a degree it is, but the players need to be mostly responsible for in game management. Look at Chelsea, they almost won the CL with Avram Grant, and won it with Di Matteo. That was the Cech-Terry-Cole-Lampard-Drogba spine, and they managed themselves, they knew how to win, and didnt need guidance from the manager, evident by the fact they were managed by novice caretaker managers

So in game management is something the players are primarily responsible for. Although it should start off the pitch with the manager facilitating it. Jose was responsible for much of Chelsea's success even after he was gone, because he built and established the Chelsea machine.

Wengers passive attitude with he captaincy (is Theo really going to be the captain next season - WTF!!!). Wenger's passive attitude on the touchline as you noted, and his soft approach overall, really does not facilitate a culture of responsibility.

Naivety is something you lose when you grow up. Do our players grow under Wenger in terms of mentality? Sure he can teach them to play a crisp passing style, but given our team is naive, whats Wenger doing to iron out the naivety?

You cant blame youth, as our team isnt that young anymore.

Great points made here

The only time Wenger gets off his arse is to berate the 4th official for something one of our players has done wrong. He is completely irrelevant, would we play worse if he wasn't there?? I doubt it.

Exactly. It's pointless for TOF to even turn up on matchdays, he does fuck all of use

When I look at Wenger's more successful years, not only did he posses quality players, but hugely intelligent players who knew how to adapt their game, depending on how it was going. Having leaders like PV4 on the pitch made a huge difference to our chances of success. One of the problems with having players like Ramsey or Giroud is they play without having the intelligence to adapt their play depending on how the game is going. Also, having a coward like BFG as captain and pretending he is a leader, is like having Giroud and pretending he is a world class striker.

Spot on. When we were successful, the players ran the dressing room themselves.

There were one or two occasions during the Invincibles season when a player gave the team-talk to turn things around - Further proof that The Old Fraud is useless.

Now it's the blind leading the blind; a bunch of wimps and idiots making the same stupid mistakes season after season

[StuartL]

Whats wrong with a 0-0 and going to the Nou Camp knowing if we score 1, Barcelona need 2, or if we score 2, Barcelona need 3?

Last year against Monaco, we go 2-0 down, but pull one back late, although rather than admit we had a bad night and accept the 2-1 loss, we go all out for a second and get counter attacked and give away another away goal. Reversing a 2-1 deficit at Monaco was possible, but 3-1 made it that much harder.

Why did we chase a goal at 0-0 against Barcelona, and why did we chase an equalizer last season against Monaco? On both occasions we blindly pursued a goal with a total disregard for the fact the other team could at any stage go down the other end and score. There was no reason for urgency in either game to get that late goal, given there was still a second leg to play.

The players are naive, they have no in game management. They didnt think, that in the games against Monaco and Barcelona, the tie could not be won in the last 10 minutes if we scored, but it will almost certainly be lost if we conceded (which is the case on both occasions). The players are just not switched on enough to realise this. Paul Merson had this analysis last season after the Monaco game - basically said chasing 2-2 was not worth the risk of going 3-1 down. He called the team naive, Wenger got wound up and personally hit back at Merson. So a year on, we make the same mistake, and Wenger calls the team naive. So Merson is 12 months ahead of Wenger in his analysis that this Arsenal team has no in game management.

When Paul Merson has the jump on you, and can identify faults within your own team from the commentary box, then its know Fing wonder Wenger has his growing critics

When I look at Wenger's more successful years, not only did he posses quality players, but hugely intelligent players who knew how to adapt their game, depending on how it was going. Having leaders like PV4 on the pitch made a huge difference to our chances of success. One of the problems with having players like Ramsey or Giroud is they play without having the intelligence to adapt their play depending on how the game is going. Also, having a coward like BFG as captain and pretending he is a leader, is like having Giroud and pretending he is a world class striker.

I think another problem is that at least some of our current players have been under Wengers tutelage for too long, under Wenger during the successful years you had some players who had obviously had decent coaching elsewhere before coming to us or under previous Aresenal Managers/Coaches. Some of our long term players, although they are not the only ones, have really obvious bad habits which no matter how you cut it have either been ignored or encouraged by Wenger.

As a coach if not a manger part of your job is to remove bad habits and coach the players to have footballing intelligence something that is blatantly deficient in some of our players. Now i know some people will say you can't coach footballing intelligence but that's balls, you can what you can't do is create it, and players without it should never get into a top team never mind a Premier League team and therefore we come full circle to the Manager and coaches not doing their jobs.

For years i've seen frustrated managers standing on the touchline at all levels screaming at players about positioning, passing, you name it, because in the heat of a match and trust me i've been guilty of this as a player, you can get blinkered and forget everything you were told beforehand and that is where the manager steps in to regain control. How often do you see AW doing that?

Former players have said that once you're on the pitch AW expects you to get on with it. Now that's ok if you have at least a couple of well respected, cool headed and loud voiced players on the pitch which our early AW teams had in spades. We all know that is something we seriously lack amongst our players and once again that falls back on the manager and therefore he needs to be the one telling the players what to do during the match, which he definitely does not do often enough.

By enough do you mean at all ?


Who else is there, who can berate the 4th official ?
Who else is there, to flap their arms up and down like they are trying to take off ?
Who else is there who struggles to do up their zip ?
Who else is there, who can tell that 70mins has gone by and its time for substitutions ?
Who else is there that can spot the talent hidden in the likes of Sanogo &, Kaallstrom ?
Who else is there who would get the maximum from the likes of Walcott, Gibbs, Ox, Ramsey, Giroud ?
Who else is there who stay loyal to Arteta, Rosicky, Flamini, when lesser managers would discard them for better players ?
Who else is there who admits that he cannot motivate his players but gets paid £8m a year to do that ?

Be careful what you wish for you ungrateful bastards !

[Almunia is a clown]

In defence of George Graham, in 92-93 we did finish below the swamp vermin in the league table but won League Cup & FA Cup & beat the vermin in the semi final at Wembley which was the most important game between us & them that season

Donkey wins the derby was the newspaper headlines as Tony Adams header won the game 1-0!

In my view a cup win beats a league finish position over your deadly rivals anyday unless you win the league!

As again with GG who won the Europa CWC in 93-94

[OneBardGooner]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/02/24/six-arsen ... n-5714618/

[Sean]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/02/24/six-arsen ... n-5714618/

DId one of us write that? It's fantastic to see truth about TOF in the media

There's also a bloke on Yahoo/Eurosport called Alex Netherton who is always scathing about TOF as well.

It's only a matter of time before Pravda go after them

[GoonerMuzz]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/02/24/six-arsen ... n-5714618/

DId one of us write that? It's fantastic to see truth about TOF in the media

There's also a bloke on Yahoo/Eurosport called Alex Netherton who is always scathing about TOF as well.

It's only a matter of time before Pravda go after them

That's a decent article and reflects the views of many of us on here but unfortunately until this sort of things appears in the mainstream media it is meaningless and even then with OGL's ego it means nothing because he is never wrong and his loyal fan base will never give it the credit or consideration it deserves.

[Wilson]

With analysis like this, Danny Higginbottom should replace Gary Neville on Sky

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 98491.html

[DB10GOONER]

10. I asked you if Wenger would "be a club legend" if he managed to finish the season below the Spuds. Who was the last Arsenal manager to do that then?

You've also done the classic AKB thing of talking down GG achievements. To my mind, signing someone like Sanogo might as well be a bung in itself. Graham was a great manager who overachieved on a shoestring budget. He was never paid the obscene wages this charlatan Wenger is. If you don't know your Arsenal history and if you genuinely think Wenger's incompetence is down to the board then I laugh....

oops!

Yeah GG once finished below them (ignore that he was booted out before he got a chance to see the season out then yeah?) - does that take away from the main point, which is that he overachieved on his funds? And does it change the point on what he achieved? Considering his resources? No? Ok then...

This is too easy. Now, slowly take both your feet out of your mouth and take a look at the PL table for the season 1992-93. I think you'll find GG was in charge for that entire season. No? Ok then...

Did I hear someone whisper the word "credibility"...? was it BDB...?

Aaaah yes "credibility". I'm glad you chose to quote BDB - a man who thinks the central Madrid government have been wiping out Barca's debts, even though anyone with GCSE politics would know that Madrid governments don't help secessionist regimes.


Or perhaps you mean like people who claim that Inter Milan fans who slated Podolski for being shite couldn't be listened to since some of their fans were once slated by UEFA for racist incidents?


I made a mistake with my timeline obviously. Something that can be done without checking Google, as your wonderful brain managed! We won the LC that season so shoulda been the trigger, it's a mistake.

But yeah. Getting "credibility" from someone like you, a font of footballing knowledge, is definitely the objective


How's the Galatassaray bench going for Podolski btw?

There's that word again! Credibilty. Yep. Not knowing Barcelona's history is sooooo much worse than not knowing your (supposed) own clubs history. Right?

RE Milan fans. Repeatedly slated for racist chanting. Apparently your limited intellect can't absorb that.

RE Podolski. What are they saying about him on the comments sections of shit football websites?

[DB10GOONER]

In defence of George Graham, in 92-93 we did finish below the swamp vermin in the league table but won League Cup & FA Cup & beat the vermin in the semi final at Wembley which was the most important game between us & them that season

Donkey wins the derby was the newspaper headlines as Tony Adams header won the game 1-0!

In my view a cup win beats a league finish position over your deadly rivals anyday unless you win the league!

As again with GG who won the Europa CWC in 93-94

Not the point mate. The question was who was the last manager that finished below them. It was GG. Just a fact for itchy baba who doesn't really understand facts. Certainly not intended to denigrate GG. The man is an Arsenal legend.

[DB10GOONER]

I made a mistake with my timeline obviously.

Not the first time though, huh?

Yes. Unlike Mr Perspicacity here. Podolski still killing it I take it?
I'm just gonna leave it. Like having a discourse with Trump now...

Oh dear. You do know the more often you use words you found on google the more obvious it becomes to everyone that you had to Google them right? You remind me a bit of the way Del Boy in Only fools would throw Latin and French about.

You are trying too hard to look intelligent. Unfortunately for you anyone that has read your semi literate, childish rants on here will know just how deeply unintelligent you are.

Stick to your comments sections on the shit football websites. You can probably impress one or two morons there. Here you are way out of your depth.

[mcdowell42]

You are up early this morning DB

[DB10GOONER]

You are up early this morning DB

Always an early riser McD. But there's also some work to be done on here today!

[mcdowell42]

You are up early this morning DB

Always an early riser McD. But there's also some work to be done on here today!

As usual I'll sit back and mind my own business

[augie]

With analysis like this, Danny Higginbottom should replace Gary Neville on Sky

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 98491.html

Problem I have with that is that it totally ignores the manager's responsibility and puts all the blame at the players door - if it happens once then you can blame the players, but when it is an ongoing weaknesses then you have to question the tactics and organisation that is coming from the manager and coaches

Also when are people going to stop referring to coquelin as a young player ? Before this season is over he will be 25 years old and that is not young for a professional footballer at any level. Just because he was only considered to be championship level up to 15 months ago, doesn't make him a kid - inexperienced maybe, but still he isn't a young player anymore

[xisstential]

With analysis like this, Danny Higginbottom should replace Gary Neville on Sky

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 98491.html

Problem I have with that is that it totally ignores the manager's responsibility and puts all the blame at the players door - if it happens once then you can blame the players, but when it is an ongoing weaknesses then you have to question the tactics and organisation that is coming from the manager and coaches

Also when are people going to stop referring to coquelin as a young player ? Before this season is over he will be 25 years old and that is not young for a professional footballer at any level. Just because he was only considered to be championship level up to 15 months ago, doesn't make him a kid - inexperienced maybe, but still he isn't a young player anymore

When is the "young" Walcott going to be a senior player?? Walcott peaked at 16, been going backward ever since.