Tony Adams praises Danny Fiszman

[USMartin]

Paragraph 2-why have a go at me when everybody else is just as bad

he still doesn't get that people have a right to have a go at him when he hijacks (hijacked) match threads to tell us its no use when we lose and to blame the board . He has manipulated almost every counter argument and the transfer history of the club to fit his agenda. He tells us to be open minded and to question the board when any opposition to his theory causes a barrage of pathetic whiny abuse (read his reply to DB10 when he actually blamed him for our on the pitch failures)

He's a spin doctor who is actually treating this place as a station to transmit his anti board ramblings and to me he has absolutely zero interest in football and will probably ignore all my points and ask me some kind of rhetorical question to make himself sound wise and intelligent .
I can't say I've helped this thread as I can't help but reply to his obvious hypocrisy , double standards and baiting of other members .

Henry this isn't just abnout thread hi-jacking at all and you kmnow it.

Like I said earlier - you are showing a lot more about how you conduct yourself personally, Henry and that won't change no matter what because apparently you don't wnat ti to.

[QuartzGooner]

Paragraph 3-infamy infamy they've all go it in for me

Not for me - for my views.

No USMartin.

Plenty of Forum members have similar views on the Board to you.
This is not about your views.
It is about you.

How you insult others and how you twist people's words.
How you put words in people's mouths.

And about how you continue to adhere to long anti-board posts on non-board threads, claiming you need to drum up support against the board.
But fail to use other social media to aid your cause even when you have incessantly repeated your message on here.

If you fail to see this by now, you must be the world's most blinkered man.

And if you are willfully ignoring it, then you are a WUM.

Moderate your behaviour or quite simply the majority of this Forum will just scroll through your posts without reading them.

Re-read SWL's and Tony Saunders' suggestions and have think about it.

[USMartin]

In my opinion, the truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle.

Agree completely Tony.

The problem is as i say there are too many genuine loyal Gooners who are unwilling to consider even the possibility of thinking about even asking the question ot whether the Board has acted properly in its roole as Custiodians ofd the Club sonce 2005. I think the find the idea of doing that to be utterly disloyalty and out of character with being a proper Arsenal supporter.

I genuinely believe some Gooners find questioning the honour and integity of the club and its custodians on their part to be more offensive than the Custodians actually behaving in they way suggested in those questions, because again its that out of character with what the believe the club to stand for and thus that they stand for

I have said before and stand by this 100% if the very same thing were happening the very same way at any other club many of these same Gooners would vview far more objectively and far differently.

The thing is it's not a matter of dismissing mis-givings about the manager and embracing mis-givinmgs about the Board. It's about not ruling out any possibility if you aren't absolutely certain and I think its fair to conclude no one can say with absolute certainty that their insistences that the Board is constantly ooffering the Manager money and he keeps rejecting it against his wishes but they just won't sack him - which basuically is what they are insisting.

I have even said that if you can guarantee with 100% certainty that the Board will not only make more money available to invets the transfer market, but will adjust the wage structure to ensure the money actually can be used to properly improve the team I will join their call for Wenger out. Now you have seen it its impossible for anyone to dent now I have said that - yet again.

The problem is the are unwilling to even ask that little of the club and the Board because they don'rt I sense want to risk having to hold the Board to that even. I think the fact that the Board refuse to sack the manager even after he gives them the finger year after year as they insist is something they can't even ignore, and aren't willing to bet their own or the board's reputations against.

Let me be clear the only people who are willign to rule out any possibility are those who insist without real factual foundation - certainly considerably less than I have presented for my thesis - that Arsene Wenger is solely at fault here. That is no more proven than any other thesis they categorically ignore by choice.

I thought the truth might just matter especially given how important Arsenal os to all of us. Apparently it only counts if it conforms to what they want to believe. We can question both the manager and the Board in all of this. Indeed that would be the smart and resposible thing to do in an instance like this. They are the ones who would rather say nothing than do that.

[RossieGooner]

Jesus christ, not this shite again.

And dont fucking PM me again USM.

[USMartin]

Jesus christ, not this shite again.

And dont fucking PM me again USM.

Don't worry Rossie I'm still here in the US...you're safe don't roust the mods for no good reason.

I do think I PM'd you some time back...I don't remember why so feel free to enlighten me but spare the dramatics okay?

[USMartin]

As you may, or may not have been able to gather from this post, I do not intend any offence. Nor do I wish to fall out with any member of this forum. HoweverYou're good at discussing what you're passionate about, but terrible at accepting other ways of seeing things. I really think you could win around a lot of support of you were more personable in your approach and in your postings,

I will never be anything to some of these people but my views because they are unwilling to judge people on anything but that unless your views align with theirs. Certainly not everyone here is like that even among those who disagree with or criticize me, bun there are some people who simply do not care about any truth about me or who I am or what I am about and that will not change. They don’t care about the truth unless it is what they want to believe They are frankly incapable of more than that in my experience.

I’m sorry but being more personable will not matter when you have people happy to deliberately falsely state that I have used Steve Hope’s death to try and excuse my “conduct’. Nothing I do except to abandon the views they take such deep exception – with no regard to how accurate or true they are or might be - to will ever satisfy them, and while certainly, as I have said, not everyone behaves that extremely, there are more people like that here than one would hope for what its worth.

[SWLGooner]

I have even said that if you can guarantee with 100% certainty that the Board will not only make more money available to invets the transfer market, but will adjust the wage structure to ensure the money actually can be used to properly improve the team I will join their call for Wenger out. Now you have seen it its impossible for anyone to dent now I have said that - yet again.

"So you need definite proof the Board are definitely responsible before you will even question their actionppy to blame others without any definite proof they are definitel7y resposnible" - USMartin

Martin, all you say in the first paragraph is that YOU want definite proof Wenger is responsible, ie. that the Board is NOT responsible, before you will question his actions and blame him. That is in DIRECT CONTRAST to the quotation only two pages back I have put in blue.

Here's another of your quotations:

We are not in a court of law MM99, there is no burden of proof for one side as opposed to another.

Then why, oh why, are you demanding that Henry guarantees with 100% CERTAINTY that the Board are are entirely faultless, and that thus IT IS ENTIRELY WENGER'S FAULT?

I'm no fan of the Board, I was at the protest, I was there outside the Directors Box abusing them, but your logic is faulty.

[USMartin]

I have even said that if you can guarantee with 100% certainty that the Board will not only make more money available to invets the transfer market, but will adjust the wage structure to ensure the money actually can be used to properly improve the team I will join their call for Wenger out. Now you have seen it its impossible for anyone to dent now I have said that - yet again.

"So you need definite proof the Board are definitely responsible before you will even question their actionppy to blame others without any definite proof they are definitel7y resposnible" - USMartin

Martin, all you say in the first paragraph is that YOU want definite proof Wenger is responsible, ie. that the Board is NOT responsible, before you will question his actions and blame him. That is in DIRECT CONTRAST to the quotation only two pages back I have put in blue.

Here's another of your quotations:

We are not in a court of law MM99, there is no burden of proof for one side as opposed to another.

Then why, oh why, are you demanding that Henry guarantees with 100% CERTAINTY that the Board are are entirely faultless, and that thus IT IS ENTIRELY WENGER'S FAULT?

I'm no fan of the Board, I was at the protest, I was there outside the Directors Box abusing them, but your logic is faulty.

SWL My point is that since neither thesis has that 100% definite proof we should discount or ignore either one. just because one is more comfortable or convienient than the other.

My point is we cannot afford to make a choice that ignores any possibility because that could lead to this decline extending even further and being not only more damging biut more difficult to correct and every one of us suffers for that.. No matter hwo you look ayt it we cannot let this lack of investement continue any longer. This has been true all the way back to really 2008 or even perhaps 2006.

And right now I think we are losing if we haven't already lost 2011, and still too many of us are only willing to make their voices heard conditionally and if we do not question whether the Custodians of the Club have acted properly in their role the past few years or now even because they seem to be more offended by questioning the nature of the Board and its conduct in recent years than if they actually failed to honor their custodial duty.

I would think that discounting any possibilkity without adequate information to justify doing that would not be in Arsenal's best interests, and that Arsenal's best interests would be more important than preserving some sort of tradition or traditional view. But that seems to be the case given the complete and utter unwillingness to ever consider the possibility oor raising questions about that possibilitty.

The problem is the longer we are unwilling to ask any questions because some people find some questions offensive and don't seem to want to
know the truth about those questions is that many more years of this.

We have only really three months of the year to push for the changes we want and need for Arsenal whatever they ultimately are or prove to be. This back-and forth that is basically trench warfare so to speak leaves us even less time to get oour concerns across to the club in a timely manner that will allow for any positive reaction and change in howe the club is run.

And come the end of August or the end of January, that is it. There is nothing that can be done for six months after the summer window closes, and and for four months after the winter window closes, and we're at the mercy of the footballing fates then. And as we have seen the last three or four years injury-free and Arsenal are mutually exclusive.

[USMartin]

I have even said that if you can guarantee with 100% certainty that the Board will not only make more money available to invets the transfer market, but will adjust the wage structure to ensure the money actually can be used to properly improve the team I will join their call for Wenger out. Now you have seen it its impossible for anyone to dent now I have said that - yet again.

"So you need definite proof the Board are definitely responsible before you will even question their actionppy to blame others without any definite proof they are definitel7y resposnible" - USMartin

Martin, all you say in the first paragraph is that YOU want definite proof Wenger is responsible, ie. that the Board is NOT responsible, before you will question his actions and blame him. That is in DIRECT CONTRAST to the quotation only two pages back I have put in blue.

Here's another of your quotations:

We are not in a court of law MM99, there is no burden of proof for one side as opposed to another.

Then why, oh why, are you demanding that Henry guarantees with 100% CERTAINTY that the Board are are entirely faultless, and that thus IT IS ENTIRELY WENGER'S FAULT?

I'm no fan of the Board, I was at the protest, I was there outside the Directors Box abusing them, but your logic is faulty.

SWL My point is that since neither thesis has that 100% definite proof we should discount or ignore either one. just because one is more comfortable or convienient than the other.

My point is we cannot afford to make a choice that ignores any possibility because that could lead to this decline extending even further and being not only more damging biut more difficult to correct and every one of us suffers for that.. No matter hwo you look ayt it we cannot let this lack of investement continue any longer. This has been true all the way back to really 2008 or even perhaps 2006.

And right now I think we are losing if we haven't already lost 2011, and still too many of us are only willing to make their voices heard conditionally and if we do not question whether the Custodians of the Club have acted properly in their role the past few years or now even because they seem to be more offended by questioning the nature of the Board and its conduct in recent years than if they actually failed to honor their custodial duty.

I would think that discounting any possibilkity without adequate information to justify doing that would not be in Arsenal's best interests, and that Arsenal's best interests would be more important than preserving some sort of tradition or traditional view. But that seems to be the case given the complete and utter unwillingness to ever consider the possibility oor raising questions about that possibilitty.

The problem is the longer we are unwilling to ask any questions because some people find some questions offensive and don't seem to want to
know the truth about those questions is that many more years of this.

We have only really three months of the year to push for the changes we want and need for Arsenal whatever they ultimately are or prove to be. This back-and forth that is basically trench warfare so to speak leaves us even less time to get oour concerns across to the club in a timely manner that will allow for any positive reaction and change in howe the club is run.

And come the end of August or the end of January, that is it. There is nothing that can be done for six months after the summer window closes, and and for four months after the winter window closes, and we're at the mercy of the footballing fates then. And as we have seen the last three or four years injury-free and Arsenal are mutually exclusive.

[USMartin]

Time waits for no one SWL, least of all people who waste it because they want to ignore possibilities that upset their sensibilities even if they might be true. and ignoring than can hurt the club rather than help it.

After 2006 most Gooners were certain we would imminently dominate English and European Football because of how Arsenal was being run.

After 2008. many Gooners were confident that we would inevitably dominate English and European football because of how Arsenal was being run.

After 2010 some Gooners remained hopeful that we would eventually dominate English and European football because of how Arsenal was being run.

After 2011 I think most if not all of that optimism has eveaporated no matter why you believe this is happening or who is to blame.

That is the real issue here and now. It always has been and it always will so long as this continues.

[SWLGooner]

Marty I don't believe we could dominate Rebel in Percy;s cellar at the moment.

It's 4am and I'm slightly tipsy. I frankly can't be arsed with this. Have a good night.

[USMartin]

Marty I don't believe we could dominate Rebel in Percy;s cellar at the moment.

It's 4am and I'm slightly tipsy. I frankly can't be arsed with this. Have a good night.

Good night you kinky bastard

But it sounds more fun than my life now

[SWLGooner]

Marty I don't believe we could dominate Rebel in Percy;s cellar at the moment.

It's 4am and I'm slightly tipsy. I frankly can't be arsed with this. Have a good night.

Good night you kinky bastard

But it sounds more fun than my life now

Can't sleep. FIFA time and I think I will Skype a few US mates.

[USMartin]

Marty I don't believe we could dominate Rebel in Percy;s cellar at the moment.

It's 4am and I'm slightly tipsy. I frankly can't be arsed with this. Have a good night.

Good night you kinky bastard

But it sounds more fun than my life now

Can't sleep. FIFA time and I think I will Skype a few US mates.

Cool -

[USMartin]

I'm starting to question whether being a member of a discussion forum is right for you…. but your posts and, I'm afraid to say, it would seem your personality are far too taxing for such an informal environment.

I think there mfght be something to this though not for the reasons you state here or would like to believ Tony.