Get your coat arsene you useless twat!

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

I think it would be fucking halarious if after all this I was actually an alter-ego of Percy

I do have to add one point for Almunia, his head to head with Diouf was superb......Diof was telling him to fuck off and Almunia just shouted him down..maybe Almunia did pick something up from Jens...it just wasnt the goalkeepig!!

[flash gunner]

I think it would be fucking halarious if after all this I was actually an alter-ego of Percy

Now youve stopped posting as Swale and Andrei tongue it wouldnt suprise me

What has happened to those 2?

[Percy Dalton]

my non-abusive response

I agree that this thread has got unnecessarily abusive but I would suggest this ill feeling is a very clear sign of the dissatisfaction with Wenger.

Wenger came to the club with two clear targets to acheive, To modernise the football club as a whole and to bring success to the team and the fans.

He quite obviously acheived both of these goals in his early days and he will always be remembered and congratulated on this.

we can all agree on that

However, there is no more modernisation of the club to be done and has not been for some years. Since Wenger changed the clubs methods and processes enough time has elapsed that most other 'major'clubs have looked at the model and have followed suit. That is how much time has passed.

in terms of lifestyle and worldwide (esp youth) scouting yes. I still think Wenger is attempting to further develop and innovate in terms of playing style/formation.

Of course he is but surely this should be with the objective of success on the football field, which it has not in recent times. Again though, I will state that Arsene Wenger's main focus is first team coach of Arsenal Football Club and his primary role is to win football matches and ultimately trophies. All other work is secondary and as he is not acheiving his main goal.

That now only leaves Wenger one goal and that is to bring silverware to the club. For the last five years he has failed to do this and compounded this failure with the use of frankly laughable, shocking, contradicting and derisory excuses.

All managers deflect criticism with nonsense. Wenger is a bad loser which IMO is not a big problem. In each of the last 5 years I would say being in the CL was a more important target than winning a domestic cup. Another key target is filling the stadium.

Being in the CL may well be more important than winning the FA/Carling Cup but winning the domestic league ensuresCL qualification and also brings the demanded silverware. Also, the ground is full regardless of the teams lack of success so that is hardly a 'goal' as it is being acheived already through a sustained period of trophyless seasons.

Unfortunately some of the excuses used to defend Wenger by the Arsene Knows movement are equally as laughable. I see that Arsene is being defended with claims that a CL quarter final is something to be celebrated. It is often said that nobody remembers the beaten finalist in any competition but some of us want to trumpet the acheivements of losing a quarter final? I totally understand that we cannot win every pot, every season but out of a possible twenty trophies available to the first team over the last five years we have won nothing.

So to summarise, our manager, with one specific goal, has failed to deliver any credible silverware over the past five seasons. In what other line of work would such perfomance be tolerated yet alone celebrated?

If I opened a burger joint and it was not as successful as McD's and BurgerKing but bigger than all the others on a far smaller budget I would be lauded as a genius.

If I had a burger joint that was succesful and then changed the recipe of its main product and fell behind its competitors I would be called an idiot for changing a winning formula.

Five years ago Arsene was a god to us all but with hindsight it is very easy to spot the deteoriation in his leadership. The scandal of losing Pires over a two year contract and subsequently offering the exact same to Silvestre. The failure to replace genuinely outstanding players with those of the same quality instead relying on the development of skilled youngsters whose progress cannot be guaranteed. The change of policy that saw technically fantastic players with the required physical attributes for the English game with ones of the same skill but who can be easliy bullied and regarded as a soft touch.

Silvestre was a bad signing as most of us suspected at the time. That said we all also agreed our team lacked experience. I was desperate for us to keep SuperBobby but it's worth remembering his knee went again after we released him. I think he would have played less than 50% of the time for the next 2 years.

Your judgement on how often he would ahve played is a personal opinion which cannot be based on fact. Also, nobody could have known if Pires's knee would go again and I suspect that if Arsene felt it would go he would not have offered him a contract at all. I doubt medical advice could give a time line on how long it would be until his knee may or may not pack up again.

Put simply, split Wenger's reign into to eras. Pre 2005 versus post 2005. Can anyone seriously say the two are comparable? There is a thread on here asking what part of Arsenal's history would you like to be transformed to? In the future, how many will answer the golden years of 2005 to 2010?

I see the narrow brave defeat in the CL final of 2006 as a more impressive achievement than our spawny 2005 FA cup win. If we can build success with this generation of youth and our rivals fall foul of financial problems the era will be seen as key. Seems unlikely at the moment but is possible.

Lots of ifs and buts there mate. Let me turn it around. How will you feel if we do not win anything for the next five years and our competitors do not fall on hard timers financially. Will this era still not be as key? One fact remains..........we have won nothing in five years despite being told by Wenger we were up to the task.

I see that some of us are labelled spoilt, incorrectly. Questioning how Invincibles are turned into also rans and yet still heralded as great is a justified concern. Nobody is spitting the dummy over one lean year or one shock FA Cup defeat but we are complaining about what is now a sustained period of failure which could have ben avoided if a more progressive approach was taken by Wenger.

The man himself told us to judge him in May and he was. Wenger being the god he is to some was even given the benefit of doubt in May that yet another obvious failure would be rectified in the summer. It has not.

I wanted a new keeper. We don't have one. I think that was a mistake. I pray I'm proven wrong. It is a question that will be answered in May.

But May is to late! We have had several May's, several winter and summer transfer windows and the bleedin' obvious goes largely unresolved. How many May's do we give him? How many May's do you get if you fuck up in August? "Sorry I lost us that deal in August boss but please judge me in May"! Yeah right, fuck off would be the answer.

How many chances do you give one person, on a tidy £6 million a year, to deliver the aims for which he is ultimately employed?

The board gave him the contract because he HAS delivered the aims they set out. A full stadium, the debt being paid down quickly through - entertaining football and CL qualification every year.

I will never accept that Arsene takes instruction from the board on the clubs targets and happily agrees that winning trophies is not one of them. If the actual winning of trophies is not the prime goal then Wenger would not be a club manager but would be working as Technical Director to the French FA or something similar. The paying of the debt has nothing to do with Wenger unless he himself brkered the loan agreements and spsonsorship packages etc. He didn't.

Wenger is not a big money manager. His big signings have not generally been his best. Maybe our next manager will be. Hiring a chequebook manager, which so many posters on here seem to crave, becomes a much more viable option every season that Wenger delivers so much on the cheap.

Now all fuk off and support Chelski

Nice reply!

I have however put my even better responses in blue!

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

I think it would be fucking halarious if after all this I was actually an alter-ego of Percy

Now youve stopped posting as Swale and Andrei tongue it wouldnt suprise me

What has happened to those 2?

They are still around!!

I think, like me, they just get a bit wound up by the over negative stuff on here - as i say though, the normal posts saying Wenger out are fine as long as they can be debated back. But when you make a solid start to the season and there is little, if any, talk of any good performance its a bit boring really. I have even had to priase Walcott twice in two weeks - and Diaby as well! Balance is all people need, speak as you see and all that. (not in a roy walker sort of way)

Swale will be back, he is currently on his 15th holiday of the year - and is soon going on his 2nd stint of jury service!! He does well that lad!

[Sutch]

How can anyone have the nerve to call Wenger a 'prick' and a 'c**t', show some bloody respect to a man who has done so much to our club.

No. He's a prick and a c**t, and all he's done in recent years is destroy the club.

If this list of convincing defeats doesn't highlight just how ill-prepared we are to compete with top teams - and more criminally, that AW refuses to learn from his mistakes - then may God help you.

Arsene Wenger's Resume, 2008-2010

Tottenham 5-1 Arsenal, League Cup, January 2008
Torn apart by our local rivals. Gives no respect to the league cup, and could seemingly care less about the fan's passionate hate toward the Spuds and their fans.

Man Utd 4-0 Arsenal, FA Cup, February 2008
Same deal, different stadium. 9,000 of our fans spent good time and money travelling to another hated rival, and our star players are left on the bench. Once again, no respect to the competition if shown, and the fans are leaving by the 70-minute mark.

Chelsea 2-1 Arsenal, FA Cup, April 2009
We somehow make it to Wembley, for the first time since it's rebuilt - once again against a close rival - and our in-form player (Arshavin) is inexplicably dropped. We predictably lose.

Man Utd 1-0 Arsenal, Champions League, April 2009
A pitiful display in which I don't think we managed one shot. On any other day, we would've been tonked.

Arsenal 1-3 Man Utd, Champions League, May 2009
Trounced in ten minutes. Never stood a hope in hell, and the 'men to boys' analogy could never be more appropriate. AW says it was his worst experience as manager of the club. He did nothing to address the problems the following summer.

Arsenal 1-4 Chelsea, May 2009
Just days after the above, we once again get destroyed - at our own stadium. Apparently, the wake-up call wasn't served, as this dross continued for another season.

Man City 3-0 Arsenal, League Cup, December 2009
Not sensing that fans still caring about the competition to an extent (in that thousands travelled there), and that our opponents were putting out a first-team side, AW throws in the towel and gets all stroppy about it in the process.

Arsenal 1-3 Man Utd, January 2010
Same deal as last season. NOTHING's CHANGED. No lesson learnt, and another thrashing.

Chelsea 2-0 Arsenal, February 2010
Another week on, another sound beating.

Barcelona 4-1 Arsenal, Champions League, April 2010
Another capitulation on the grand stage, when it matters. Not even close, quite frankly. Six goals conceded in two games against the Spanish side.

Tottenham 2-1 Arsenal, April 2010
Top response from the CL defeat. Lose to the Spuds and risk get overtaken by them on the last day of the season.

Wigan 3-2 Arsenal, April 2010
Clearly bored of losing the traditional way, and to decent teams, AW's group of wasters chuck the game in the last ten minutes. Seemingly exasperated after the match, AW looks sure to mix things up. Nothing happens.


Having sat through this absolute embarrasment for the past three seasons, I'm not holding back any longer. Nothing is changing, and Wenger will continue to fail for as long as he's crazily allowed to stay in charge. We can't compete with the top teams (or Wigan, apparently), and Wenger makes no attempt to remedy the issues. Almunia is the tip of the iceberg, and an obvious example of just how stubborn and deluded AW is.

If you think me slating Wenger, having watched all this, is unreasonable, you need your fucking head checked.

Fantastic post BBP. There are more to mention, such as the 2-1 loss to Utd last season, narrow but still couldve been avoided. Blackburn away last season too. This team has a confidence problem

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

How can anyone have the nerve to call Wenger a 'prick' and a 'c**t', show some bloody respect to a man who has done so much to our club.

No. He's a prick and a c**t, and all he's done in recent years is destroy the club.

If this list of convincing defeats doesn't highlight just how ill-prepared we are to compete with top teams - and more criminally, that AW refuses to learn from his mistakes - then may God help you.

Arsene Wenger's Resume, 2008-2010

Tottenham 5-1 Arsenal, League Cup, January 2008
Torn apart by our local rivals. Gives no respect to the league cup, and could seemingly care less about the fan's passionate hate toward the Spuds and their fans.

Man Utd 4-0 Arsenal, FA Cup, February 2008
Same deal, different stadium. 9,000 of our fans spent good time and money travelling to another hated rival, and our star players are left on the bench. Once again, no respect to the competition if shown, and the fans are leaving by the 70-minute mark.

Chelsea 2-1 Arsenal, FA Cup, April 2009
We somehow make it to Wembley, for the first time since it's rebuilt - once again against a close rival - and our in-form player (Arshavin) is inexplicably dropped. We predictably lose.

Man Utd 1-0 Arsenal, Champions League, April 2009
A pitiful display in which I don't think we managed one shot. On any other day, we would've been tonked.

Arsenal 1-3 Man Utd, Champions League, May 2009
Trounced in ten minutes. Never stood a hope in hell, and the 'men to boys' analogy could never be more appropriate. AW says it was his worst experience as manager of the club. He did nothing to address the problems the following summer.

Arsenal 1-4 Chelsea, May 2009
Just days after the above, we once again get destroyed - at our own stadium. Apparently, the wake-up call wasn't served, as this dross continued for another season.

Man City 3-0 Arsenal, League Cup, December 2009
Not sensing that fans still caring about the competition to an extent (in that thousands travelled there), and that our opponents were putting out a first-team side, AW throws in the towel and gets all stroppy about it in the process.

Arsenal 1-3 Man Utd, January 2010
Same deal as last season. NOTHING's CHANGED. No lesson learnt, and another thrashing.

Chelsea 2-0 Arsenal, February 2010
Another week on, another sound beating.

Barcelona 4-1 Arsenal, Champions League, April 2010
Another capitulation on the grand stage, when it matters. Not even close, quite frankly. Six goals conceded in two games against the Spanish side.

Tottenham 2-1 Arsenal, April 2010
Top response from the CL defeat. Lose to the Spuds and risk get overtaken by them on the last day of the season.

Wigan 3-2 Arsenal, April 2010
Clearly bored of losing the traditional way, and to decent teams, AW's group of wasters chuck the game in the last ten minutes. Seemingly exasperated after the match, AW looks sure to mix things up. Nothing happens.


Having sat through this absolute embarrasment for the past three seasons, I'm not holding back any longer. Nothing is changing, and Wenger will continue to fail for as long as he's crazily allowed to stay in charge. We can't compete with the top teams (or Wigan, apparently), and Wenger makes no attempt to remedy the issues. Almunia is the tip of the iceberg, and an obvious example of just how stubborn and deluded AW is.

If you think me slating Wenger, having watched all this, is unreasonable, you need your fucking head checked.

Fantastic post BBP. There are more to mention, such as the 2-1 loss to Utd last season, narrow but still couldve been avoided. Blackburn away last season too. This team has a confidence problem

I wont go through all those games one by one - but Barca for example where we played away to the best team in the world, in great form with Sol and Silvestere at the back and without Arshavin, Fabregas, Van Persie, Gallas, Vermalen, Song among others shows that some of them can be debated right back.

I think we did have a massive confidence problem, that is true - and Wenger has actually said we need to beat one of the "top 4" well to instill some belief etc - im sure many would agree once you lose to a top side on a lot of occassions, mentally, it actually makes it harder to beat them in the future because your already under more pressure to do it,

But what can we do? Just assume we will lose anywhere north of the watford gap? If you look at Saturday, we knew Blackeye rovers were a threat from certain situations, but we dealt with them - it was a nervy last ten but we stood strong and didnt throw everyone forward like we have in the past. If you go through our squad there are some players there that will not shirk the physcial stuff - hopefulyl Saturday is a sign of things to come and we can break the "top 4 hoodoo" this season.

[skipper]

How can anyone have the nerve to call Wenger a 'prick' and a 'c**t', show some bloody respect to a man who has done so much to our club.

No. He's a prick and a c**t, and all he's done in recent years is destroy the club.

If this list of convincing defeats doesn't highlight just how ill-prepared we are to compete with top teams - and more criminally, that AW refuses to learn from his mistakes - then may God help you.

Arsene Wenger's Resume, 2008-2010

Tottenham 5-1 Arsenal, League Cup, January 2008
Torn apart by our local rivals. Gives no respect to the league cup, and could seemingly care less about the fan's passionate hate toward the Spuds and their fans.

Man Utd 4-0 Arsenal, FA Cup, February 2008
Same deal, different stadium. 9,000 of our fans spent good time and money travelling to another hated rival, and our star players are left on the bench. Once again, no respect to the competition if shown, and the fans are leaving by the 70-minute mark.

Chelsea 2-1 Arsenal, FA Cup, April 2009
We somehow make it to Wembley, for the first time since it's rebuilt - once again against a close rival - and our in-form player (Arshavin) is inexplicably dropped. We predictably lose.

Man Utd 1-0 Arsenal, Champions League, April 2009
A pitiful display in which I don't think we managed one shot. On any other day, we would've been tonked.

Arsenal 1-3 Man Utd, Champions League, May 2009
Trounced in ten minutes. Never stood a hope in hell, and the 'men to boys' analogy could never be more appropriate. AW says it was his worst experience as manager of the club. He did nothing to address the problems the following summer.

Arsenal 1-4 Chelsea, May 2009
Just days after the above, we once again get destroyed - at our own stadium. Apparently, the wake-up call wasn't served, as this dross continued for another season.

Man City 3-0 Arsenal, League Cup, December 2009
Not sensing that fans still caring about the competition to an extent (in that thousands travelled there), and that our opponents were putting out a first-team side, AW throws in the towel and gets all stroppy about it in the process.

Arsenal 1-3 Man Utd, January 2010
Same deal as last season. NOTHING's CHANGED. No lesson learnt, and another thrashing.

Chelsea 2-0 Arsenal, February 2010
Another week on, another sound beating.

Barcelona 4-1 Arsenal, Champions League, April 2010
Another capitulation on the grand stage, when it matters. Not even close, quite frankly. Six goals conceded in two games against the Spanish side.

Tottenham 2-1 Arsenal, April 2010
Top response from the CL defeat. Lose to the Spuds and risk get overtaken by them on the last day of the season.

Wigan 3-2 Arsenal, April 2010
Clearly bored of losing the traditional way, and to decent teams, AW's group of wasters chuck the game in the last ten minutes. Seemingly exasperated after the match, AW looks sure to mix things up. Nothing happens.


Having sat through this absolute embarrasment for the past three seasons, I'm not holding back any longer. Nothing is changing, and Wenger will continue to fail for as long as he's crazily allowed to stay in charge. We can't compete with the top teams (or Wigan, apparently), and Wenger makes no attempt to remedy the issues. Almunia is the tip of the iceberg, and an obvious example of just how stubborn and deluded AW is.

If you think me slating Wenger, having watched all this, is unreasonable, you need your fucking head checked.

Fantastic post BBP. There are more to mention, such as the 2-1 loss to Utd last season, narrow but still couldve been avoided. Blackburn away last season too. This team has a confidence problem

Stoke away in last year FA Cup.

[1989]

I wont go through all those games one by one - but Barca for example where we played away to the best team in the world, in great form with Sol and Silvestere at the back and without Arshavin, Fabregas, Van Persie, Gallas, Vermalen, Song among others shows that some of them can be debated right back.

I think we did have a massive confidence problem, that is true - and Wenger has actually said we need to beat one of the "top 4" well to instill some belief etc - im sure many would agree once you lose to a top side on a lot of occassions, mentally, it actually makes it harder to beat them in the future because your already under more pressure to do it,

But what can we do? Just assume we will lose anywhere north of the watford gap? If you look at Saturday, we knew Blackeye rovers were a threat from certain situations, but we dealt with them - it was a nervy last ten but we stood strong and didnt throw everyone forward like we have in the past. If you go through our squad there are some players there that will not shirk the physcial stuff - hopefulyl Saturday is a sign of things to come and we can break the "top 4 hoodoo" this season.

I seem to remember him not only playing in that game, but also having an absolute 'mare trying to defend against Messi as well.

[flash gunner]

My problem with Wenger is he is no master tactician and can not change games if things arent going well. He has assembled some of the most fantastic teams in English football let alone Arsenal history and he deserves a place within Arsenal history for this but we cant 'hark' back to these days all the time.... People say against Barca last season we had so many injuries etc etc etc why do we have so many injury prone players? and why are these players on long term contracts????? Also knowing we were understrength against Barca HE decided to go out and try to outplay them giving Messi the run of the park when holding it tight and nicking a goal would have got us through.... This is naivety of the highest order

Also comments from Wenger are getting madder and madder for instance when we lost to Wigan at the end of last season he said it started to go wrong at 2-0 up as we stopped creating chances.... What utter bollocks we should be able to hold onto a 2 goal lead against an inferior team without creating one more chance on the remaining 30 mins. Teams that rely on outscoring the opposition dont win leagues and having a good keeper and some tactical knowledge would be a good step forward but it wont happen and we will finish in the top 4 but never really challenge for the league title

[Batflyer]

I wont go through all those games one by one - but Barca for example where we played away to the best team in the world, in great form with Sol and Silvestere at the back and without Arshavin, Fabregas, Van Persie, Gallas, Vermalen, Song among others shows that some of them can be debated right back.

I seem to remember him not only playing in that game, but also having an absolute 'mare trying to defend against Messi as well.

True, Vermaelen played in central defense, with Silvestre who assisted Messi's first goal.

[augie]

I will agree with bdb that some of the comments are a bit extreme and of course percy is 100% right when he says that the insults to other members has been too personal I agree with bdb that we are perhaps a top quality keeper away from being real serious challengers for all the honours this season and I think that is what is galling for most of us on here. Wenger should have absolutely moved heaven and earth to obtain a top quality keeper and there is no, and I mean no, excuse for his failure to do so. It is decisions like this that leave no doubt in my mind that he should be removed as manager of our club as he fails to adress glaring weaknesses in the team. Some fans will claim that he tried to do so by bidding for schwarzer but what was he doing in the 3 months between his 1st bid and his 2nd bid ? After complaining that barca were not respecting his wishes re cesc did he really think that if he behaved the same way towards fulham they would back down ?

His failure to identify and obtain an alternative for a 37 year old journeyman is a disgrace I wonder if he had not of been busy moonlighting in south africa for a month would we have seen a different outcome here - for example could he have moved for the ajax keeper before he played in the champs league qualifiers cos he was certainly available at a reasonable price (even jol admitted on tv how financially fcuked they were before qualification) ? Should he have made a real concerted effort to prise shay given from shitty ? The options out there may not have been bountiful but there was still a number of options that he either totally ignored or did not persue with the necessary vigour and for a team that is close this failure could well be the difference between success and even more failure

[Henry Norris 1913]

some people got spoilt by the success of 1998-2005. glad I'm not one of those

I bet you are one of the youngest members on here.

your point being?

I've probably been to more games than you have recently

Are all these fucking twats one person because they spout the same shite?

Older people aren't going to get spoiled by success because they have seen the dark times, which you haven't.

You are nothing but a fucking idiot.

loyalty & passion is far greater than experience

[AA23Northbank]

Good post Percy I dont agree with all of it, but i do see your points.

The world and his wife can see we need a GK (im of the opinion that is ALL we now need to challenge) but a top drawer GK, Schwarzer would have been ok as it was a change - but would a journeyman goalkeeper who has never interested a top level club been the answer? Im not so sure. Almunia is not a terrible goalkeeper, he is a steady goalkeeper who has great games and makes mistakes like any other goalkeeper - but in mine, like many people's opinion - he is not really at the level we need to win a title. BUT, we have to get behind him and the team now, who knows, maybe we will see some of the Barca (H) and United CL (A) performances more often.

What is annoying on here is the lack of balance by some, before the season we were going to be "lucky to get 3 points from our opening games", yet we now have seven, the team has played very well in pretty much 70% of the game time, yet the praise is still far outwieghed by the moaning - and when i say moaning i dont mean posts like percys - i mean the stupid, boring, crap posts like Wenger has never done anything good for Arsenal and all the other shit ive seen on here - some of it is actually quite embarrasing, and even some of the intelligent "realists" are being drowned out by idiots - as ive read on here somewhere, there is a certain "bandwagon" culture that many subscribe too and its boring, repititive, unfounded and a lot of it is utter shit.

Most "rosetinters" will tell you we need a new Goalkeeper, most will say Wenger has made mistakes - but they will also point to a promising start to the season inclusive of two tough away fixtures as a sign we are moving the right direction, as well as the fact Wenger has bought in 3 players - 2 of which have looked promising in the games they have played, and the other an international player coming with a good reputation. As ive said before, i firmly believe we will have a good season, and all this talk of dropping out the top 4 is bollocks - we will finish their comfortably - whether we can have a great season without a new GK of course remains to be seen.

Good post. Spot on.

As a fellow rosetinter/Arsene Knows, agree completely, good points made by Percy and BDB. I wanted a new keeper to come in but it hasn't materialised, we'll see what happens in the season but we've made a good start, let's keep it up and get behind the mighty AFC

[BT]

The Russian keeper was begging for a move

http://www.breakingfootballnews.com/eng ... -move/5271

Every transfer window, I like to hope something will change but its getting silly now. Not only have we not improved an area Arsene publically acknowledged needed improving (in his Guardian interview with Amy Lawrence) but he's now completely unnerved two already nervy keepers! I just don't understand why he is creating a rod for fans to beat him with when it inevitably goes tits up again

[Connolly55]

You missed Blackburn as well last year.